Native inquiry an orgy of progressive guilt-mongering

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The tone of the whining is what highlights the issue most and I bet it starts the globe rolling towards some grand slam truth and reconciliation commission that deals with the ongoing issues of colonialism that still plague millions of people around the planet.  Like I said anyone concerned about the cost should really be giving some serious thought to how much kicking and screaming costs.

Reality has a progressive bias, its like some physical law of nature that unfolds like a fractal.

 

Well, the ICC is a creation of the imperialists and colonialism framework, with no jurisdiction for crimes committed prior to the international treaty (2002).    African nations have been the main targets of ICC proceedings and prosecutions.

So don't hold your breath waiting for that grand-slam truth.

[Zeitgeist]

11 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The tone of the whining is what highlights the issue most and I bet it starts the globe rolling towards some grand slam truth and reconciliation commission that deals with the ongoing issues of colonialism that still plague millions of people around the planet.  Like I said anyone concerned about the cost should really be giving some serious thought to how much kicking and screaming costs.

Reality has a progressive bias, its like some physical law of nature that unfolds like a fractal.

Progress will be bringing the individuals responsible for murdering Indigenous females to justice, Indigenous bands tackling abuse of females on their reserves, Canadian police forces giving greater care and consideration for vulnerable women, those kinds of concrete policies based on factual data.  Accusations of genocide are quite a stretch, but I don’t know how many tears would be shed if Trudeau went up for trial.  You do also realize we already have a truth and reconciliation commission.  Do you want another one?  How about an inquiry into the commission, maybe an inquiry into the inquiry?

Edited June 16, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

11 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Well, the ICC is a creation of the imperialists and colonialism framework, with no jurisdiction for crimes committed prior to the international treaty (2002).    African nations have been the main targets of ICC proceedings and prosecutions.

So don't hold your breath waiting for that grand-slam truth.

As I said, it'll take at least a couple of generations.

[eyeball]

11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You do also realize we already have a truth and reconciliation commission.  Do you want another one?  How about an inquiry into the commission, maybe an inquiry into the inquiry?

You don't realize the discussion has encompassed talking about an international commission do you?

[jacee]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re wrong.  Bands/reserves do receive portions of resource development.  Read about IBA’s, which are direct and confidential agreements between bands and private industry through which substantial moneys flow to Indigenous locals. https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201529E

I'm not wrong about the history, but you're right about Impact-Benefit Agreements. They are an important development in the last 20+ years, following on the Constitution Act of 1982 and Supreme Court rulings in the 1990's and early 2000's 

Finally, First Nations can directly negotiate agreements with industries (eg, for changes to plans to preserve environments, sacred sites, etc., and also for jobs, revenues, infrastructure, etc.), and have those revenues deposited directly into their own accounts for use in their communities. (Instead of revenues disappearing into Federal General Revenues.)

Only 130+ years late (and a lot of Indigenous revenues have 'disappeared' in that time) and not perfect (eg, too much delegation to industry), but a good development nonetheless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_consult_and_accommodate

In Canada, the duty to consult and accommodate with Aboriginal peoples arises when the Crown contemplates actions or decisions that may affect an Aboriginal person's Aboriginal or Treaty rights.^[1] This duty arises most often in the context of natural resource extraction such as mining, forestry, oil, and gas.

... The Crown constitutes both the Federal and Provincial governments.^[7] Therefore, the level of government contemplating an action or decision has the responsibility to consult and accommodate. Although in many provinces it is industry proponents that consult with Aboriginal rights holders, the ultimate substantive duty to ensure proper consultation and accommodation lies with the Crown; while procedural aspects can be delegated to other levels of government or to industry proponents, the honour of the Crown itself can never be delegated.^[8]

Edited June 16, 2019 by jacee

[Zeitgeist]

14 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You don't realize the discussion has encompassed talking about an international commission do you?

I understand completely.  Basically repeat the process internationally.  Get your cheque book.  As a Canadian you’re responsible for the establishment of this broken system and need to pay, in accordance with your own principles.  I would move to England and enjoy my E.U. passport until Brexit.  .  

[Zeitgeist]

On 6/15/2019 at 8:51 PM, jacee said:

I'm not wrong about the history, but you're right about Impact-Benefit Agreements. They are an important development in the last 20+ years, following on the Constitution Act of 1982 and Supreme Court rulings in the 1990's and early 2000's 

Finally, First Nations can directly negotiate agreements with industries (eg, for changes to plans to preserve environments, sacred sites, etc., and also for jobs, revenues, infrastructure, etc.), and have those revenues deposited directly into their own accounts for use in their communities. (Instead of revenues disappearing into Federal General Revenues.)

Only 130+ years late (and a lot of Indigenous revenues have 'disappeared' in that time) and not perfect (eg, too much delegation to industry), but a good development nonetheless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_consult_and_accommodate

In Canada, the duty to consult and accommodate with Aboriginal peoples arises when the Crown contemplates actions or decisions that may affect an Aboriginal person's Aboriginal or Treaty rights.^[1] This duty arises most often in the context of natural resource extraction such as mining, forestry, oil, and gas.

... The Crown constitutes both the Federal and Provincial governments.^[7] Therefore, the level of government contemplating an action or decision has the responsibility to consult and accommodate. Although in many provinces it is industry proponents that consult with Aboriginal rights holders, the ultimate substantive duty to ensure proper consultation and accommodation lies with the Crown; while procedural aspects can be delegated to other levels of government or to industry proponents, the honour of the Crown itself can never be delegated.^[8]

I think it’s sad that these agreements are confidential.  Are bands setting aside any of the funds to improve infrastructure and services on the reserve?  It’s important to know because it would be ethically wrong to receive large revenues and not set aside some funds like a form of taxation for upkeep, like any community.  That’s how self-government works.  Transparency would also make it easier to determine which reserves need more outside government help because not all reserves are resource rich. 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[jacee]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think it’s sad that these agreements are confidential.  Are bands setting aside any of the funds to improve infrastructure and services on the reserve?  It’s important to know because it would be ethically wrong to receive large revenues and not set aside some funds like a form of taxation for upkeep, like any community.  That’s how self-government works.  Transparency would also make it easier to determine which reserves need more outside government help because not all reserves are resource rich. 

I guess it's always tempting to try to micromanage other people's business, but First Nations Band Councils are accountable to their Band members for uses of own-source revenues. That's how self-government works.

Our obligation is to fulfill our Treaty and other legal obligations. So you might instead try holding our federal government accountable for the previous revenues of Indigenous Nations that disappeared into Canada's General Revenues and were used for the benefit of all Canadians instead.

Edited June 23, 2019 by jacee

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, jacee said:

I guess it's always tempting to try to micromanage other people's business, but First Nations Band Councils are accountable to their Band members for uses of own-source revenues. That's how self-government works.

Our obligation is to fulfill our Treaty and other legal obligations. So you might instead try holding our federal government accountable for the previous revenues of Indigenous Nations that disappeared into Canada's General Revenues and were used for the benefit of all Canadians instead.

Which means double dipping.  Earn income tax free AND get federal money.  This idea of money owed comes from where?  Courts need specific evidence.  But sure, why not ask for federal money without accountability for its use AND have a confidential agreement with private companies to collect money for resource development?  Anyone cries foul?  Colonialism and genocide...

[GostHacked]

I would look at the internal problems with some of the advocate groups for indigenous people and then we might start to understand where the failure is.  There seems to be a lot of internal struggles among their own that we cannot fix externally.

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I would look at the internal problems with some of the advocate groups for indigenous people and then we might start to understand where the failure is.  There seems to be a lot of internal struggles among their own that we cannot fix externally.

Wise comment.  I think most people, Indigenous and non-Indigenous, want to see good jobs on reserves and revenue from resource development flow back to the reserves, as well as careful management of those funds to meet local community needs.  I think, though, that for true self-sustainability, the goal has to be self-funding through self-taxation, as is the case in every community.  External taxpayer funding should act as a kind of top up to meet a standard.  Some reserves that are flourishing would need little or no top-up.  Others might require much more funding than they currently receive.  A condition of any external funding is financial accountability.  This should be a requirement for all IBA and other sources of revenue on reserves, so that it's transparent to the community how such money is used.  If there is no plan among residents of a reserve to collect a portion of their non-taxed income for the purpose of building and maintaining infrastructure and services on the reserves, those residents will always be reliant on the help of people who have their own priorities and may not want to contribute much to people who don't pay land or income taxes.  I'm not taking a right wing position on this, as I think current levels of funding with rises for inflation are what we signed up for.  On the other hand, there is no hope for true self-government and self-empowerment without self-management, which means running reserves internally the way city/town councils run municipalities, including having the band collect a portion of income from residents to pay for services/infrastructure.  This is what makes Nunavut successful.  I realize that this would have to be transitioned incrementally.  I also wouldn't try messing with the reserve system as it stands, with its lack of private title for residents that would allow for the sale of private property in the marketplace.  That should be a local decision for bands.    

Edited June 24, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[jacee]

22 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Which means double dipping.  Earn income tax free AND get federal money.   

You are confusing personal income with federal transfers to Bands for public services. That's like confusing your own income with your City's budget: Just stupid. 

Personal earnings of Indigenous people are income tax free if working and living on reserves only. They are not subjects of the Crown, not subject to 'the King's tax' but allies of the Crown who allowed the land to be settled, for considerations of (not yet) equal public services for their communities, etc.

Businesses on reserves often pay Federal taxes. On one reserve I know of, the amount of federal tax paid by businesses is at least twice the federal transfer funding for that Band/reserve.

The federal government is making money, "double dipping", even. 

Quote

This idea of money owed comes from where?  Courts need specific evidence.

Courts are very aware of the evidence. Indigenous Peoples have won a string of two hundred or more court cases against governments in the last few decades, where governments made historical Treaties and agreements, used the land, but never paid for it or for its use, etc. Can include payment for, or substitution of land, loss of use and revenues, etc.

I'm quite surprised that you 'claim' not to know that.

And there are many more claims to be settled, through negotiations or through the courts. 

Quote

But sure, why not ask for federal money without accountability for its use AND have a confidential agreement with private companies to collect money for resource development? 

Let's see ... my city government budget, or yours, consists of about 25% federal transfers, 25% provincial transfers, as well as 50% 'own source' revenues. Accountability is via public Budget reports of revenues and expenses and audited Financial Statements, and elections. 'Own source' revenues are accounted for, but business agreements/contracts may remain private.

First Nations Band Council governments consist of federal transfers (as Trustee of Indigenous Trust funds) for public services, some provincial transfers may add some to that for specific programs or services, and 'own source' revenues.  Accountability is via public Budget reports of revenues and expenses and audited Financial Statements, and elections. 'Own source' revenues are accounted for, but business agreements/contracts may remain private.

See any City or First Nation website for Budget reports and audited Financial Statements.

Pretty similar ... so what is it exactly that you 'claim' not to understand? 

 

Edited June 24, 2019 by jacee

[taxme]

On 6/15/2019 at 5:35 PM, Zeitgeist said:

Progress will be bringing the individuals responsible for murdering Indigenous females to justice, Indigenous bands tackling abuse of females on their reserves, Canadian police forces giving greater care and consideration for vulnerable women, those kinds of concrete policies based on factual data.  Accusations of genocide are quite a stretch, but I don’t know how many tears would be shed if Trudeau went up for trial.  You do also realize we already have a truth and reconciliation commission.  Do you want another one?  How about an inquiry into the commission, maybe an inquiry into the inquiry?

Commissions are only there for show. They never solve much of anything. Commissions are just a work project given to people who kiss ass the present day government who apparently creates a commission just for fun and created to try and make the present day government look like they are trying to do something. The only thing that commissions do is cost the taxpayer's more tax dollars with not much solved in the end. Canadians are such fools and have and always will be taken for fools because most of them are fools. That is most likely due to the fact that they enjoy following the fools that are running and are ruining this once great country. Only fools run Canada today.  Just saying. 

[taxme]

On 6/23/2019 at 11:58 AM, jacee said:

I guess it's always tempting to try to micromanage other people's business, but First Nations Band Councils are accountable to their Band members for uses of own-source revenues. That's how self-government works.

Our obligation is to fulfill our Treaty and other legal obligations. So you might instead try holding our federal government accountable for the previous revenues of Indigenous Nations that disappeared into Canada's General Revenues and were used for the benefit of all Canadians instead.

It's time for the native Indians to start looking in their own back yard and try to solve their own problems as to what has and still is happening to their Indian women. They need to stop looking for an excuse to blame white people for their so called genocide. The native Indians are their own worse enemy, not the white people.

We need to stop wasting hundreds of millions of our Canadian tax dollars on useless leftist commissions like this one. My gawd people how much longer are you going to sit back and let your dear leader fools keep wasting your tax dollars where nothing ever really gets solved in the end. The tax dollars blown on so many useless commissions we could have got rid of the GST by now. Hello out there. Time to wake up and smell the burning of your tax dollars if that is possible for many of you? My opinion. 

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, jacee said:

You are confusing personal income with federal transfers to Bands for public services. That's like confusing your own income with your City's budget: Just stupid. 

Personal earnings of Indigenous people are income tax free if working and living on reserves only. They are not subjects of the Crown, not subject to 'the King's tax' but allies of the Crown who allowed the land to be settled, for considerations of (not yet) equal public services for their communities, etc.

Businesses on reserves often pay Federal taxes. On one reserve I know of, the amount of federal tax paid by businesses is at least twice the federal transfer funding for that Band/reserve.

The federal government is making money, "double dipping", even. 

Courts are very aware of the evidence. Indigenous Peoples have won a string of two hundred or more court cases against governments in the last few decades, where governments made historical Treaties and agreements, used the land, but never paid for it or for its use, etc. Can include payment for, or substitution of land, loss of use and revenues, etc.

I'm quite surprised that you 'claim' not to know that.

And there are many more claims to be settled, through negotiations or through the courts. 

Let's see ... my city government budget, or yours, consists of about 25% federal transfers, 25% provincial transfers, as well as 50% 'own source' revenues. Accountability is via public Budget reports of revenues and expenses and audited Financial Statements, and elections. 'Own source' revenues are accounted for, but business agreements/contracts may remain private.

First Nations Band Council governments consist of federal transfers (as Trustee of Indigenous Trust funds) for public services, some provincial transfers may add some to that for specific programs or services, and 'own source' revenues.  Accountability is via public Budget reports of revenues and expenses and audited Financial Statements, and elections. 'Own source' revenues are accounted for, but business agreements/contracts may remain private.

See any City or First Nation website for Budget reports and audited Financial Statements.

Pretty similar ... so what is it exactly that you 'claim' not to understand? 

 

No my point is that unless Indigenous contribute part of their income to the services and infrastructure on their reserves, they will not be taken seriously as self-governing nations.  It’s not healthy for any society to depend so heavily on support outside the community.  Collecting rent on the development work of private companies tax-free doesn’t necessarily demonstrate any contribution toward the common good of the reserve community at all.  

Ownership also means owning the costs of management.  Sure some infrastructure must remain federal because it’s too big for a small community to build. I’m not even proposing a clawback of federal funding.  I’m simply stating the truth that a society must be self-sustaining to be healthy.  Sure you can argue that money is owed to people for doing nothing on land that is worth very little because of centuries old injustices that were the way of the world at that time.  Some reserves are thriving and they should be self-sustaining because they are self-sustaining.  

Everyone agrees that development on Indigenous land requires agreements for payments to the reserve, but how is that money used to support the reserve?   Is it simply kept by individuals like a profit share with no form of taxation to support the reserve?  If you want to really dig into the specifics and problem solve, there has to be honest conversation about what self-government means.  This is the heart of the matter.  The broken reserve system and Indian Act are embraced by too many Indigenous decision makers.  What hard choices are people willing to make to really improve life for the vast majority of Indigenous?  You want to escape poverty and developing country conditions, function with the accountability and sophistication of healthier societies.  Courts can figure out disputes over pieces of land, which will have their resources and title.  The question is, after the settlement, what do you do with what you have?  When will the conversation change from getting more from outside to creating and contributing?  Some are already there.  

Federal money should go where it’s needed most.  Certain items will probably remain freebies, such as land without property taxes and income taxes going to Revenue Canada.  That’s a sweet deal.  There’s also taxpayer money flowing into reserves from the government of Canada.  Nice.  What are Indigenous giving back to their own Indigenous communities?   

Edited June 24, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[jacee]

20 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

No my point is that unless Indigenous contribute part of their income to the services and infrastructure on their reserves, they will not be taken seriously as self-governing nations.  It’s not healthy for any society to depend so heavily on support outside the community.  Collecting rent on the development work of private companies tax-free doesn’t necessarily demonstrate any contribution toward the common good of the reserve community at all.  

Ownership also means owning the costs of management.  Sure some infrastructure must remain federal because it’s too big for a small community to build. I’m not even proposing a clawback of federal funding.  I’m simply stating the truth that a society must be self-sustaining to be healthy.  Sure you can argue that money is owed to people for doing nothing on land that is worth very little because of centuries old injustices that were the way of the world at that time.  Some reserves are thriving and they should be self-sustaining because they are self-sustaining.  

Everyone agrees that development on Indigenous land requires agreements for payments to the reserve, but how is that money used to support the reserve?   Is it simply kept by individuals like a profit share with no form of taxation to support the reserve?  If you want to really dig into the specifics and problem solve, there has to be honest conversation about what self-government means.  This is the heart of the matter.  The broken reserve system and Indian Act are embraced by too many Indigenous decision makers.  What hard choices are people willing to make to really improve life for the vast majority of Indigenous?  You want to escape poverty and developing country conditions, function with the accountability and sophistication of healthier societies.  Courts can figure out disputes over pieces of land, which will have their resources and title.  The question is, after the settlement, what do you do with what you have?  When will the conversation change from getting more from outside to creating and contributing?  Some are already there.  

Federal money should go where it’s needed most.  Certain items will probably remain freebies, such as land without property taxes and income taxes going to Revenue Canada.  That’s a sweet deal.  There’s also taxpayer money flowing into reserves from the government of Canada.  Nice.  What are Indigenous giving back to their own Indigenous communities?   

Clearly you have no knowledge of how Canada was formed, what our laws and treaties are, what is your business and what isn't.

I would guess you're a 'white nationalist' like Goldylocks.

/ignore

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by jacee

[taxme]

1 hour ago, jacee said:

Clearly you have no knowledge of how Canada was formed, what our laws and treaties are, what is your business and what isn't.

I would guess you're a 'white nationalist' like Goldylocks.

/ignore

 

Clearly you are not listening to someone who is talking common sense and logic and not using this constant leftist liberal emotionalism and foolish talk as you appear to be offering here. Every native Indian in Canada should be all millionaires by now with all of the tax dollars that they have been receiving from the federal government for all these decades. They do not pay taxes on their land and get a discount on products and materials and the toys(ATV's)that they buy. They get their booze and tobacco for next to nothing. They get millions of tax dollars from the taxpayer's of Canada every year and yet they still cry poverty and racism. What a load of manure that they keep trying to spread all the time. 

If I were the leader of this country I would be telling them today that the buck stops here with me. Enough has been done to try and compensate and help make your lives better and you pretty much have shown me that making your lives better has not been a priority for you. Some of you seem to only want to bmw(bitch/moan/whine)over everything. No more, pal. 

Quit with your racism will you. Calling people "white nationalists" just shows your ignorance and your leftist liberal intolerance and bigotry towards others whom you disagree with. Maybe I should call you a communist because of your opinions, eh? Just saying. 

[Nefarious Banana]

Just curious . . . 

Is 'Iron Eyes Cody' a real Indian, or just a Roman descendant ?

Should he be apologizing to the Gauls or whoever the Romans over-ran 50 BC ?

The 'apology contract' might be an interesting endeavor for Justin Trudeau . . . . tears & Kleenex.

It's difficult to describe the depth of my contempt for Justin Trudeau . . . 

Edited June 25, 2019 by Nefarious Banana

[Rue]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

Clearly you are not listening to someone who is talking common sense and logic and not using this constant leftist liberal emotionalism and foolish talk as you appear to be offering here. Every native Indian in Canada should be all millionaires by now with all of the tax dollars that they have been receiving from the federal government for all these decades. They do not pay taxes on their land and get a discount on products and materials and the toys(ATV's)that they buy. They get their booze and tobacco for next to nothing. They get millions of tax dollars from the taxpayer's of Canada every year and yet they still cry poverty and racism. What a load of manure that they keep trying to spread all the time. 

If I were the leader of this country I would be telling them today that the buck stops here with me. Enough has been done to try and compensate and help make your lives better and you pretty much have shown me that making your lives better has not been a priority for you. Some of you seem to only want to bmw(bitch/moan/whine)over everything. No more, pal. 

Quit with your racism will you. Calling people "white nationalists" just shows your ignorance and your leftist liberal intolerance and bigotry towards others whom you disagree with. Maybe I should call you a communist because of your opinions, eh? Just saying. 

You openly have told people on this forum you follow Brother Nathaniel:

https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/milton-kapner/denver-colorado-/milton-kapner-brother-nathaniel-milton-is-a-mentally-ill-denver-colorado-1008974

You also openly have advocated white supremacist doctrine on this forum which tells me from the above you are confused and you clearly don't get what your comrades say about him:

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1155122-2/

 

You need to make up your mind what you are, a supporter of a mentally ill person with b-polar disorder and ocd or a white supremacist. What you do share is you define a small sub type of whites from England as your Aryan race.

Bottom line is you are a self admitted racist. So why couch it? Why pretend you do not feel your identified group of select few are based on skin colour? You said so.

Surely someone with your views would have no problem exterminating your enemies now would you? Lol, please tell us all, would you have an aboriginal, black, Jew, anyone with a tan or questionable nose size live next door to you? Lol. Enough. If you want to wear the hood, don't pretend your head aint pointed.

That said this thread is not about you its about aboriginal peoples. I think most on this forum agree in the past we had misguided policies based on the notion white Christian civilization was better than aboriginal civilizations and it was imposed on them and it was used to try cleanse them of their ethnicity or what is commonly called ethnocide or cultural genocide.

It failed, and we created social, economic, criminal and other injustices along the way.

Now we have specific guilt ridden leftists use this tragedy to engage in shrill hyperbolic accusations of genocide as well as people on your side of the spectrum sneering at aboriginals or anyone who doesn't look like you.

 But hey  you and Milt Kaplan aka  Brother Nate, you will set us free. Lol.

https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=69350

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by Rue

[taxme]

12 minutes ago, Rue said:

You openly have told people on this forum you follow Brother Nathaniel:

https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/milton-kapner/denver-colorado-/milton-kapner-brother-nathaniel-milton-is-a-mentally-ill-denver-colorado-1008974

You also openly have advocated white supremacist doctrine on this forum which tells me from the above you are confused and you clearly don't get what your comrades say about him:

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1155122-2/

 

You need to make up your mind what you are, a supporter of a mentally ill person with b-polar disorder and ocd or a white supremacist. What you do share is you define a small sub type of whites from England as your Aryan race.

Bottom line is you are a self admitted racist. So why couch it? Why pretend you do not feel your identified group of select few are based on skin colour? You said so.

Surely someone with your views would have no problem exterminating your enemies now would you? Lol, please tell us all, would you have an aboriginal, black, Jew, anyone with a tan or questionable nose size live next door to you? Lol. Enough. If you want to wear the hood, don't pretend your head aint pointed.

That said this thread is not about you its about aboriginal peoples. I think most on this forum agree in the past we had misguided policies based on the notion white Christian civilization was better than aboriginal civilizations and it was imposed on them and it was used to try cleanse them of their ethnicity or what is commonly called ethnocide or cultural genocide.

It failed, and we created social, economic, criminal and other injustices along the way.

Now we have specific guilt ridden leftists use this tragedy to engage in shrill hyperbolic accusations of genocide as well as people on your side of the spectrum sneering at aboriginals or anyone who doesn't look like you.

 But hey  you and Milt Kaplan aka  Brother Nate, you will set us free. Lol.

https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=69350

 

1. Why do you keep trying to make an azz of yourself all the time? I never said that I was a follower of Brother Nathaneal. I occasionally go to his website and read and listen to what he has to say. There is no following being done here like I was a member of his club or something. I am dam sure that you do the same thing and you go to many Zionist promoting websites to read or listen to what some of your Zionist hero's have to say all the time, right?  I would like you to comment on this? Don't run away from it. Go. 

2. What "white supremacist doctrines" have I openly advocated here? Show me if you are able too? I think that your use of the word "comrades" would be a word that you would mostly use seeing that you appear to support lieberal commie zionist doctrines here. I would not be calling my white nationalist friends comrades. That word is reserved for communists, comrade.  

3. Again, where have I said that I am a racist? Show me verbatim will you? I need for you to really show me now. You always say this but never show me anything? I am a self admitting white patriotic nationalist. And for saying this I get to be called a white racist supremacist. Way the go oh silly and ridiculous zionist one. The only people that your ilk is trying to exterminate and get rid of is those straight, white, Christian conservative ones who use more common sense and logic than your ilk will ever be able to do and who only know how to preach bigotry and intolerance and hatred like that stupid diversity/multiculturalism(white genocide) communist program and agenda who hate those great people that I mentioned. 

4. I know that this thread is all about native Indians and I have told people like you where as to where I stand on the Indian issue. Dump the Indian Act. Dump any more taxpayer handouts. They have been given hundreds of billions of tax dollars and what have they done with it/ Sweet dik all. Just blew it mostly on drugs and booze. What the white Christians tried to do for the Indians was to create residential schools to try and educate their old foolish and murderous ways of always trying to kill one another. There was no genocide planned for the Indians.Just a plan to bring them into the civilized world. There is no bloody way that the Indians would ever want to go back to the good old days of hunting with bows and arrows and only get around in canoes. There is no way the Indian civilization was better than the white civilization. The white people were always trying to do better for themselves. The Indians just want to carry on as usual and not advance their Indian civilization. It's apples to peanuts. 

5. Brother Nathaneal will never be able to set you free from your Zionist brainwashing ways of thinking because they have you believing all their propaganda bull chit. The Bro has set me free and has told me and educated me as to who is really trying to destroy my civilization and the rest of my world. are you afraid of the Bro by chance and what he has to say? It sure looks like it? Well? 

 

 

 

 

[taxme]

1 hour ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Just curious . . . 

Is 'Iron Eyes Cody' a real Indian, or just a Roman descendant ?

Should he be apologizing to the Gauls or whoever the Romans over-ran 50 BC ?

The 'apology contract' might be an interesting endeavor for Justin Trudeau . . . . tears & Kleenex.

It's difficult to describe the depth of my contempt for Justin Trudeau . . . 

I am of the belief that Asians and Native Indians are one and of the same blood and the Indians are related to Asians. At one time they came to North America and who knows maybe killed the original inhabitants living there at the time. The native Indians in the past have been known to be quite violent towards themselves and other native Indians. But both their facial features appear to indicate that the native Indians of NA are related by blood and ancestry to each other. Just my opinion of course. But no matter what this inquiry is nothing more than an orgy of progressive guilt. Guilt that they had nothing to do with. The people that were guilty of all of those Indian atrocities are all dead now. So go after them. Good luck if you can ever find them now. Lol.  

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, jacee said:

Clearly you have no knowledge of how Canada was formed, what our laws and treaties are, what is your business and what isn't.

I would guess you're a 'white nationalist' like Goldylocks.

/ignore

 

That’s really all you’ve got in the face of reasonable argument? Hopefully your views will remain at the fringe where they belong. I have defended multiculturalism, universal healthcare, and banning of handguns and assault rifles.  I’m a centrist.  The only reason I support the Conservatives is because the Liberals under JT moved as far left as the NDP.  I’m relatively well informed on Canadian history.  Are you?  You’re very much speaking the shrill language of the revolutionary left.  It’s a foolish game that can only backfire in a climate where most people feel that their standard of living is under threat.  People like to feel like when they work they will be rewarded, not told they should feel guilty of crimes they didn’t commit and fork money over to people on spurious grounds.  Thankfully this is a democracy, for now, and extremists won’t win elections, for now.  

Edited June 25, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[jacee]

19 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

 It’s a foolish game that can only backfire in a climate where most people feel that their standard of living is under threat.  

I doubt that "most" Canadians feel that way right now: Our unemployment rate is the lowest since the glory days of employment in 1976. There will always be pockets that differ, perhaps Albertans are feeling the pinch of the world moving away from fossil fuels, but they're innovative and resilient, they'll find a new and better focus. But perhaps precariously skilled and employed people will always feel unsettled, and I'm not sure what we do about that.  

Quote

People like to feel like when they work they will be rewarded, not told they should feel guilty of crimes they didn’t commit and fork money over to people on spurious grounds.

Maybe the "people" you speak for are just not the norm. Lol  

Most Canadians do understand the origins of Canada, the Peace and Friendship Treaties with Indigenous Nations, the fact that the land was never "Terra Nullius", free for the taking, but was always based on sharing it with Indigenous Peoples "to a plough's depth" only, in fact. No question that we violated Treaties and Rights of Indigenous Peoples. But never did their Treaties and Rights 'go away', and the Supreme Court certainly now respects the original laws of Canada. Brainwashing Canadians into believing that Indigenous rights ceased to exist in law was 'the Canadian way' since Confederation, but we're past that now, in an era where 'Truth' is in the Supreme Court rulings, and 'Reconciliation' includes respect for our founding agreements. 

People who don't comprehend or respect those foundations of Canada, who set themselves higher than the Supreme Court, are really few and far between. Beating their heads against a brick wall of nonsense ideas isn't helping their brainpower any. How can they be 'nationalists' if they don't comprehend or uphold the foundation laws of the nation? Lol 

Quote

Thankfully this is a democracy, for now, and extremists won’t win elections, for now.

A somewhat befuddled democracy co-opted by resource extraction industries to date, but that can be improved by better electoral methods that reduce their influence, and of course by Mother Nature herself signalling for an increasing shift to renewable energies and using the Earth's resources more wisely. The successful business minds and influencers of the 21st Century will, of necessity, have a more viable focus on sustaining the Earth that sustains us, 'back ... to the future', sort of.

The only "extremists" of concern are those who agitate to only go backwards. Lol  White Nationalists, for example, who pine for the 'white Canada' of the early 20th century ... that was not very kind to the working classes at all: Would they like the EI, health care, working hours, workplace safety of those eras too? Give up 'the weekend'? I don't really think so. Their bosses certainly would! But it wouldn't help the workers any. 

Interesting sidenote: The racism that pervades society had to be quickly and firmly acknowledged and denounced and within the growing labour movement in those early years. That movement of working people, employees, that brought us 'the weekend' among other things, could not have succeeded with the hindrance of racial divisions.

But ... because of un soupçon de melanin, some people would wish their present lives away. Again, the bosses ... convincing them that someone's out to get them, 'taking their jobs', frightening people into submission who don't have the brainpower to know that they're being manipulated, used, by the greedy pockets of 'the bosses', who don't have the protection and leadership of a union.  

United we ROLL ... in our big trucks ... to Ottawa! To get our pipelines back! To get our white nation back! Such nonsense. Very sad, really. But because of un soupçon de melanin, they are panicked ... and purposely maintained in that state by the extraction industry bosses who manipulate such naive and vulnerable people, for their own personal gain.

'Lord' Black ... a good example ... criminal escapades aside ... pined for the aura of the monarchy so much he gave up Canadian citizenship. But he also denies the foundations of Canada that exist in 'the Queen's Treaties' with Indigenous Peoples. Hmmm ... just a superficial puffball, a dandy, enamoured of the royal trappings but with no depth of committment to the Royal-Indigenous partnerships that formed Canada. One would think that he might be more aware, but he chooses not. 

The Supreme Court is very clear that the Honour of the Queen must be upheld, must not be besmirched with assumptions that she 'never intended' to honour her Treaties with Indigenous Peoples. How dare Lord Black deny Her Majesty! Lol 

Canada has waffled, scrambled, pretended ignorance, surreptitiously tried to bypass the Queen's Treaties (and of course tried to de-legitimize, subjugate, damage and destroy Indigenous Peoples "as such") ... but it remains legal fact that our nation, Canada, is founded and grounded in our respect for and adherence to our Treaties with Indigenous Peoples. We strayed ... but now we are brought right back to the fact that our way forward is increasingly tied directly to those Indigenous foundations of sharing and caring for the land. 

The Queen certainly agrees: In her 2010 visit to Canada, Queen Elizabeth personally decided to renew one of our oldest, most important and most definitive Treaties, to 'polish the Silver Chain of Friendship'

... to commemorate the 300-year relationship between the British Crown and the Mohawk Nation.

... the import of the Queen’s decision to pay such homage was not lost on the Mohawks present, or on attentive observers of indigenous-settler relations in Canada. The silver bells that Queen Elizabeth presented on July 4 are engraved with the words The Silver Chain of Friendship 1710-2010; according to notes provided by the government of Canada, they “are symbolic of the councils and the treaties that originated between the English colonies in North America and the Iroquois Confederacy.”

http://activehistory.ca/2010/07/the-queen-among-the-mohawks/

It's ironic, somewhat bizarre really, that powerful hard-line Conservatives like Lord Black, so enamoured of Royal trappings and connections, Silver Bells, commemorations and such, would categorically dismiss any associated legal 'trappings' like equal sharings of revenues from the lands called 'Crown lands' that are, in reality, Indigenous lands held 'under the protection of the Crown'. Some kind of mental block, I guess.

I know it's difficult for some minds to comprehend, especially minds that never had reason to feel 'enriched' by Canada's riches (that mostly went into the pockets of their bosses). But our reality is complex and changing all the time. 

The motivation isn't guilt: It's necessity ... to 'right the ship', to recognize truths of law in Canada, of climate change, of world domination by dangerous and predatory extraction industries that now  threaten our existence, and to diversely and collectively re-orient ourselves by anchoring to our foundations and set a new-old course: Protect the land, the environment, and update our means of supporting ourselves to survive as peoples.

Understandably, not everyone gets that, but those who do are the leaders we need now. 

Those who set people against 'the other' are not real leaders. They are predators, destructive to society. 

Edited June 26, 2019 by jacee

[Zeitgeist]

20 minutes ago, jacee said:

I doubt that "most" Canadians feel that way right now: Our unemployment rate is the lowest since the glory days of employment in 1976. There will always be pockets that differ, perhaps Albertans are feeling the pinch of the world moving away from fossil fuels, but they're innovative and resilient, they'll find a new and better focus. 

 

 

Maybe the "people" you speak for are just not the norm. Lol  

Most Canadians do understand the origins of Canada, the Peace and Friendship Treaties with Indigenous Nations, the fact that the land was never "Terra Nullius", free for the taking, but was always based on sharing it with Indigenous Peoples "to a plough's depth" only, in fact. No question that we violated Treaties and Rights of Indigenous Peoples. But never did their Treaties and Rights 'go away', and the Supreme Court certainly now respects the original laws of Canada. Brainwashing Canadians into believing that Indigenous rights ceased to exist in law was 'the Canadian way' since Confederation, but we're past that now, in an era where 'Truth' is in the Supreme Court rulings, and 'Reconciliation' includes respect for our founding agreements. 

People who don't comprehend or respect those foundations of Canada, who set themselves higher than the Supreme Court, are really few and far between. Beating their heads against a brick wall of nonsense ideas isn't helping their brainpower any. How can they be 'nationalists' if they don't comprehend or uphold the foundation laws of the nation? Lol 

 

A somewhat befuddled democracy co-opted by resource extraction industries to date, but that can be improved by better electoral methods that reduce their influence, and of course by Mother Nature herself signalling for an increasing shift to renewable energies. The successful business minds and influencers of the 21st Century will necessarily have a more viable focus on sustaining the Earth that sustains us (duh).

The only "extremists" of concern are those who agitate to go backwards. Lol White Nationalists, for example, who pine for the 'white Canada' of the early 20th century ... would they like the EI, health care, workplace safety of those eras too? Lol Their bosses certainly would! But it wouldn't help the workers any. Boggles the mind that the extremist right have their noses so firmly embedded up the asses of the bosses ... who only want more and more out of them, to fill their own pockets. Sad, really.

But ... because of un soupçon de melanin, they would wish their present lives away. Lol Again, the bosses ... convincing them that someone's out to get them, 'taking their jobs', frightening people into submission who don't have the brainpower to know that they're being manipulated, used, by the greedy pockets of 'the bosses'. 

United we ROLL ... in our big trucks ... to Ottawa! To get our pipelines back! To get our white nation back! Such nonsense. Very sad, really. But because of un soupçon de melanin, they are panicked ... and purposely maintained in that state by the extraction industry bosses who manipulate such naive and vulnerable people, for their own personal gain.

'Lord' Black ... a good example ... criminal escapades aside ... pined for the aura of the monarchy so much he gave up Canadian citizenship. But he also denies the foundations of Canada that exist in 'the Queen's Treaties' with Indigenous Peoples. Hmmm ... just a superficial puffball, a dandy, enamoured of the royal trappings but with no depth of committment to the Royal-Indigenous partnerships that formed Canada. One would think that he might be more aware, but he chooses not. 

The Supreme Court is very clear that the Honour of the Queen must be upheld, must not be besmirched with assumptions that she 'never intended' to honour her Treaties with Indigenous Peoples. How dare Lord Black deny Her Majesty! Lol 

Canada has waffled, scrambled, pretended ignorance, surreptitiously tried to bypass the Queen's Treaties (and of course tried to de-legitimize, subjugate, damage and destroy Indigenous Peoples "as such") ... but it remains legal fact that our nation, Canada, is founded and grounded in our respect for and adherence to our Treaties with Indigenous Peoples. We strayed ... but now we are brought right back to the fact that our way forward is increasingly tied directly to those Indigenous foundations of sharing and caring for the land. 

The Queen certainly agrees: In her 2010 visit to Canada, Elizabeth personally decided to renew one of our oldest, most important and most definitive Treaties, to 'polish the Silver Chain of Friendship'

... to commemorate the 300-year relationship between the British Crown and the Mohawk Nation.

... the import of the Queen’s decision to pay such homage was not lost on the Mohawks present, or on attentive observers of indigenous-settler relations in Canada. The silver bells that Queen Elizabeth presented on July 4 are engraved with the words The Silver Chain of Friendship 1710-2010; according to notes provided by the government of Canada, they “are symbolic of the councils and the treaties that originated between the English colonies in North America and the Iroquois Confederacy.”

It's ironic, somewhat bizarre really, that powerful hard-line Conservatives like Lord Black, so enamoured of Royal trappings and connections, Silver Bells, commemorations and such, would categorically dismiss any associated legal 'trappings' like equal sharings of revenues from the lands called 'Crown lands' that are, in reality, Indigenous lands held 'under the protection of the Crown'. 

I know it's difficult for some minds to comprehend, especially minds that never had reason to feel 'enriched' by Canada's riches (that mostly went into the pockets of their bosses). But our reality is complex and changing all the time. 

The motivation isn't guilt: It's necessity ... to 'right the ship', to recognize truths of law in Canada, of climate change, of world domination by dangerous and predatory extraction industries, and to diversely and collectively re-orient ourselves by anchoring to our foundations and set a new-old course: Protect the land, the environment, update our means of supporting ourselves to survive as peoples.

Understandably, not everyone gets that, but those who do are the leaders we need now. 

Mostly meaningless rhetoric.  Lip service, including polishing silver, has nothing to do with labour, living standards, and fairness.  Much of your plea is for a transfer of income from earners to non-earners, which is unfair and will only breed contempt in the long-run, no matter how much you try to rewrite history with pretty narratives about a single pure people who owned everything and shared it communally.  Thankfully knowledge is power and we can all conduct research and draw sensible conclusions.

In terms of the economy, the stats speak for themselves.  The unemployment rate is historically low and never has employment in modern industrial society been more precarious or housing less affordable.  Millennials have less than the previous two or three generations and are giving up on home ownership.  The contempt for labour is becoming more obvious as greater work is no longer translating to better living standards.  Some are deciding that gaming the system pays better than hard work.  Of course people can only be pushed so far, resulting in people like Trump on the right and AOC on the left.  Sensible management is under threat at a time when we have more data to drive sensible decision making than ever.  The irony!

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

....  Some are deciding that gaming the system pays better than hard work.  Of course people can only be pushed so far, resulting in people like Trump on the right and AOC on the left.  Sensible management is under threat at a time when we have more data to drive sensible decision making than ever.  The irony!

 

But closer to home....it results in people like Justin Trudeau.