The road to 2020

[Argus]

14 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Its not about how bad just one man is. That is one-dimensional thinking.

Bad is bad. I suppose you can, from a distance, admire a bad man who accomplished great things. But Trump hasn't accomplished anything of substance unless you think further dividing Americas is a good thing.

[OftenWrong]

6 minutes ago, Argus said:

Have you seen Trump toddling carefully down a ramp lately or drinking a water glass with both hands carefully clamped around it?

No, don't care to really. I saw him eat a piece of fried chicken with a knife and fork once, though. I felt offended...

[DogOnPorch]

25 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Bill Clinton:

"The man's a pussy grabber!!!"

 

Lecturing us all on the sanctity of the Oval Office...

[OftenWrong]

6 minutes ago, Argus said:

Bad is bad. I suppose you can, from a distance, admire a bad man who accomplished great things. But Trump hasn't accomplished anything of substance unless you think further dividing Americas is a good thing.

Yes, I generally agree. Maybe I've just gotten to such a jaded place, I see them all as bad but to different degrees. I see the whole media dialogue is pretty shrill and generally stupid, meant to appeal to the stupid.

I see his enemies have done a lot to contribute to dividing, their own country. These people have put politics above themselves.

Politicos uber alles...

[Argus]

11 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

 

I see his enemies have done a lot to contribute to dividing, their own country. These people have put politics above themselves.

Oh yeah, I'm definitely not a fan of the Democrats and their dumbass identity politics. That feeds off the Trumpist nonsense which feeds off the identity nonsense. Each group uses the outrageous behaviour of the other to feed the outrage of their believers.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

No, the ones you chose aren't good or bad.

 

You are the one who insists on making such value judgements, not I.  

...and I didn't choose them.    They are reported attributes from any number of personality profiles for Trump in media.

 

Quote

Including Joseph Stalin, Benito Mussolini and Idi Amin. None of them are much admired these days. The ones who are admired tend to have good character traits, too, like the ones I listed above. I mean it's a lot easier to admire Harry Truman's sense of responsibility (The buck stops here) than Donald Trump's lack (I'm not responsible for anything)

 

...or Sir Winston Churchill, not exactly a sweetheart either.

 

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That is more an indictment of your failed democracy and miserably inept media and education systems. And before you resort to your usual "Canada bad!" counter I fully concede we also have a failed democracy, miserably inept media and education system.

 

The U.S. is not a democracy...it is a constitutional republic.

[Shady]

On 8/17/2020 at 8:40 AM, Boges said:

Only in states with Universal Mail-In voting, All strong democrat states already. And those ballots only go out to registered voters, not everyone with a mailing address. It's not like the Phone Book. 

In the states that matter, a registered voter can obtain an absentee ballot to avoid voting in-person during a pandemic. Trump can't change that. What he's trying to change is making it difficult for that registered voter to get their ballot and have it securely returned. 

Complete nonsense.  Even Dr. Fauci stated that in person voting is fine.  People that are high risk can ask for absentee ballots.  Stop ignoring the experts.

[Boges]

49 minutes ago, Shady said:

Complete nonsense.  Even Dr. Fauci stated that in person voting is fine.  People that are high risk can ask for absentee ballots.  Stop ignoring the experts.

Or you can ask for an absentee ballot because you just don't want to vote in person. 35 states don't require a reason to receive an absentee ballot.

You could be in Cancun and request an absentee ballot, you could request one because you anticipate long lines and have something important to do that day. It doesn't matter. 

Trump has not changed any laws. He's just trying to make it harder for the Postal Service to do its job. 

[WestCanMan]

37 minutes ago, Boges said:

Trump has not changed any laws. He's just trying to make it harder for the Postal Service to do its job. 

The Dems are trying to make it easier to cheat. Just like with 'no voter id' and 'illegal immigrants can vote'.

[Boges]

Just now, WestCanMan said:

The Dems are trying to make it easier to cheat. Just like with 'no voter id' and 'illegal immigrants can vote'.

Not if they aren't registered. 

[WestCanMan]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

Not if they aren't registered. 

Dead people were registered. They still get to vote.

7,700 people die every day in the US. That's 770,000 every 3 months. Theoretically, if they're dead, they don't get to vote anymore. 

[Moonlight Graham]

On 8/19/2020 at 11:56 AM, bush_cheney2004 said:

The U.S. is not a democracy...it is a constitutional republic.

And Canada is a constitutional monarchy.  They're both representative democracies.

I've come across a lot of Americans who repeat this myth.

[bush_cheney2004]

49 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

And Canada is a constitutional monarchy.  They're both representative democracies.

I've come across a lot of Americans who repeat this myth.

 

Not a myth...just ask Hillary Clinton...and the 2016 Electoral College...established by constitution.

[WestCanMan]

On 8/19/2020 at 8:56 AM, bush_cheney2004 said:

The U.S. is not a democracy...it is a constitutional republic.

That's like saying "it's not a dog, it's a German Shepherd".

Your 'Constitutional Republic' is just a sub-category of 'Democracy'. 

[bush_cheney2004]

51 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

That's like saying "it's not a dog, it's a German Shepherd".

Your 'Constitutional Republic' is just a sub-category of 'Democracy'. 

 

No...it was expressly designed not to be a pure democracy.

Quote

America Is Not a Democracy

...The United States was founded as a republic, not a democracy. As Alexander Hamilton and James Madison made clear in the Federalist Papers, the essence of this republic would consist—their emphasis—“IN THE TOTAL EXCLUSION OF THE PEOPLE, IN THEIR COLLECTIVE CAPACITY, from any share” in the government. Instead, popular views would be translated into public policy through the election of representatives “whose wisdom may,” in Madison’s words, “best discern the true interest of their country.” That this radically curtailed the degree to which the people could directly influence the government was no accident.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/america-is-not-a-democracy/550931/

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[WestCanMan]

On 8/19/2020 at 6:39 AM, OftenWrong said:

Bill Clinton:

"The man's a pussy grabber!!!"

Yeah the DNC Convention was off the rails. Everyone that they had giving lectures there seems to have been the least qualified person to do so. 

Michelle Obama's "When they go low, we go high" is the most ironic quote of all time. All that the Dems do is incite riots, lie, and make baseless allegations. I guess that they're still waiting for the GOP to go low so that they can go high.

They also blatantly promoted BLM at the event, while they complained about division lol. "Gee whillikers, I intentionally peed into the wind so that all this urine would get carried away from me. Now I smell like a Democrat-controlled city."

[WestCanMan]

11 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

No...it was expressly designed not to be a pure democracy.

Democracy:

Quote

a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

There are very distinct forms of Democracy, and America's Constitutional Republic is one of them. 

To say it's not, is like if I took a German Shepherd and crossed it with a Malinois and said: "This is not a dog. It's a Germois."

The fact remains that it can still breed with any other member of Canis familiaris and produce viable offspring, so it's still a dog breed by definition, not a new species.

I've heard it said that "In a democracy the people could vote to take away your bike and in a constitutional republic like the US that's not the case", but the principle of eminent domain says otherwise. You just get compensation.

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

That's like saying "it's not a dog, it's a German Shepherd".

Your 'Constitutional Republic' is just a sub-category of 'Democracy'. 

Exactly.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Democracy:

There are very distinct forms of Democracy, and America's Constitutional Republic is one of them. 

To say it's not, is like if I took a German Shepherd and crossed it with a Malinois and said: "This is not a dog. It's a Germois."

 

People get to vote in China too....so "democracy" ?

Keeping this fuzzy notion on topic, the 2020 election in the United States will select a president not based on popular vote, but by state electors allocated for the Electoral College.

Quote

The United States is not a democracy — and it wasn't meant to be one

...Contrary to catchy slogans, memes and other slick forms of electioneering, the government of the United States was never intended to be a pure democracy. In fact, most of the institutions today’s activists complain about were designed to thwart the pernicious effects of too much democracy. They’re anti-democratic by design. Rather than flaws that require remedy, these institutions were (and are) essential safeguards for individual liberty.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/413142-the-united-states-is-not-a-democracy-and-it-wasnt-meant-to-be-one

 

[WestCanMan]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

People get to vote in China too....so "democracy" ?

America isn't immune to what's going on in China. 

When you consider the way that the FBI was operating in 2016-2018, and the way that the conglomeration of CNN, MSNBC, etc operates strictly as a propaganda wing for the Dems, you could make the case that a blatant attempt at a 1-party rule system was underway. 

The Dems have far too much sway over the FBI, and the MSM in the US is absolutely as bad as Xinhua, Tass, or KCNN (KCNA lol). 

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Keeping this fuzzy notion on topic, the 2020 election in the United States will select a president not based on popular vote, but by state electors allocated for the Electoral College.

Trudeau didn't win the popular vote in Canada in 2019, just like trump in 2016. That doesn't mean there was no democratic process in either country. 

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Trudeau didn't win the popular vote in Canada in 2019, just like trump in 2016. That doesn't mean there was no democratic process in either country. 

 

Trudeau was only up for direct vote in his riding, not all of Canada.

China also has the popular vote, but that doesn't mean it's a democracy.

The U.S. republic is not a pure democracy by design.  Mob rule was/is to be avoided so that individual rights are protected by constitution.

 

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Michelle Obama's "When they go low, we go high" is the most ironic quote of all time.

I understand Barrack Hussein corrected her. "We get high."

[Cannucklehead]

16 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Trudeau was only up for direct vote in his riding, not all of Canada.

China also has the popular vote, but that doesn't mean it's a democracy.

The U.S. republic is not a pure democracy by design.  Mob rule was/is to be avoided so that individual rights are protected by constitution.

 

That would be true if not for the 2nd ammendment.  In today's world militias are redundant anyway.  

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Trudeau was only up for direct vote in his riding, not all of Canada.

China also has the popular vote, but that doesn't mean it's a democracy.

The U.S. republic is not a pure democracy by design.  Mob rule was/is to be avoided so that individual rights are protected by constitution.

By your definition is there such thing as 'democracy' anywhere in the world? 

If every single variation from a straight-up "vote for anyone you want to be the supreme leader" means that you no longer have a 'democracy' then no one has a democracy.

Where democratic processes are respected, and voters have actual choices, you have democracy, period. 

You're making distinction without a difference. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Where democratic processes are respected, and voters have actual choices, you have democracy, period. 

You're making distinction without a difference. 

 

Happy to do so...same as America's founding fathers...a distinction with a very big difference.