The road to 2020

[Yzermandius19]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

To this point.....Obama actually lost far more support...and his Democratic party lost about 1,000 federal and state offices.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-approval-rating-higher-obama-1460076

And Obama still won because the Republicans ran a chump like Romney. Trump is still going to win too, and the Democrats running a chump like Biden, Warren, Sanders or Buttigieg will play into that.

[QuebecOverCanada]

3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

And Obama still won because the Republicans ran a chump like Romney. Trump is still going to win too, and the Democrats running a chump like Biden, Warren, Sanders or Buttigieg will play into that.

Never, ever underestimate an opponent. 

Sanders would be a fierce one. I mean it, without any sarcasm. You're way too confident.

All the propaganda machine, if he won the primaries, would be backing him 100%. It would be USSR like, something you have never seen before, even worse than Obama 2008. Sanders also has grass root support, which Biden has none of. Sanders would get many protest vote in the Rust Belt, he is very much liked in the North-Eastern part of the USA. He's loved by many, many Democrats across Swing States. He's also for open borders and green cards for nothing, which will grant him support from a lot of corporations who want cheap slaves to keep their business going. He's going to get Super Pacs you can't imagine. Universities, colleges, will support Sanders 1000%, that's not even a question.

[Yzermandius19]

6 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Never, ever underestimate an opponent. 

Sanders would be a fierce one. I mean it, without any sarcasm. You're way too confident.

All the propaganda machine, if he won the primaries, would be backing him 100%. It would be USSR like, something you have never seen before, even worse than Obama 2008. Sanders also has grass root support, which Biden has none of. Sanders would get many protest vote in the Rust Belt, he is very much liked in the North-Eastern part of the USA. He's loved by many, many Democrats across Swing States. He's also for open borders and green cards for nothing, which will grant him support from a lot of corporations who want cheap slaves to keep their business going. He's going to get Super Pacs you can't imagine. Universities, colleges, will support Sanders 1000%, that's not even a question.

I'm not underestimating them, if anything I'm overestimating them. I'm get surprised all the time by just how stupid Democrats insist on being going into 2020. They've already gone too far left to pivot back to the center successfully, even Biden.

Socialists can't win a presidential election, every time the Dems go far left and the Republicans take the center they get steamrolled. Grass roots far lefties being pumped doesn't energize business Dems or moderate Dems in the rust belt, Sanders would get killed. You may like Bernie Sanders, Joe Six Pack does not, the America electorate does not think like the Canadian electorate, and even Trudeau isn't a self avowed socialist who honeymooned in the Soviet Union.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[QuebecOverCanada]

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I'm not underestimating them, if anything I'm overestimating them. I'm get surprised all the time by just how stupid Democrats insist on being going into 2020. They've already gone too far left to pivot back to the center successfully, even Biden.

Socialists can't win a presidential election, every time the Dems go far left and the Republicans take the center they get steamrolled. Grass roots far lefties don't energize business Dems or moderate Dems in the rust belt, Sanders would get killed.

FDR was further left than Sanders and won decisively. USA never has been a totally capitalist country.

[Yzermandius19]

5 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

FDR was further left than Sanders and won decisively. USA never has been a totally capitalist country.

No he wasn't. FDR was not that far-left, he won the center, while the Republicans were out in the political weeds being Rockefeller Republicans. Bernie is far to the left of FDR. Bernie winning is more unlikely than the NDP winning a federal election in Canada, America does not support the NDP, that sh*t doesn't fly. The Republicans would have to go straight up unapologetic in your face fascist for someone like Bernie to have a chance, and they aren't doing that.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

FDR was further left than Sanders and won decisively. USA never has been a totally capitalist country.

 

FDR was a closet fascist....admired Mussolini.    Many battles with Congress over Depression Era programs...some struck down by the courts.

[Yzermandius19]

FDR being far-left is a myth the lefties like to tell themselves so they can delude themselves into thinking it's actually a winning electoral strategy in American politics at the state or presidential level. FDR won because he stole the center from Republicans and Republicans didn't get it back until Nixon.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[bush_cheney2004]

19 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

And Obama still won because the Republicans ran a chump like Romney. Trump is still going to win too, and the Democrats running a chump like Biden, Warren, Sanders or Buttigieg will play into that.

 

Should Trump win in 2020, the Trump haters here will still harp on about his "support" levels, even though Obama lost far more in polling and political terms.

Trump just drives them nuts to good effect, Obama numbers be damned.

 

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Should Trump win in 2020, the Trump haters here will still harp on about his "support" levels, even though Obama lost far more in polling and political terms.

Trump just drives them nuts to good effect, Obama numbers be damned.

 

Just win baby.

Of course the haters will move the goalposts, Trump will probably win more electoral votes this time around than he did last time. If Trump wins the popular vote, they will simply claim yeah but he didn't win California or New York. If Trump loses in any demographic or loses any state, they will claim that is clear indication of his weakness, and they will cherry pick whatever metric makes Trump not look so hot, no matter how silly it makes them look. Trump Derangement Syndrome is a helluva drug.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Just win baby.

Of course the haters will move the goalposts, Trump will probably win more electoral votes this time around than he did last time. If Trump wins the popular vote, they will simply claim yeah but he didn't win California or New York. If Trump loses in any demographic or loses any state, they will claim that is clear indication of his weakness, and they will cherry pick whatever metric makes Trump not look so hot, no matter how silly it makes them look. Trump Derangement Syndrome is a helluva drug.

 

Trump outperformed Obama for his first mid-terms, gaining GOP Senate seats and losing the House with only half as many defeats as Obama.   But that objective reality is lost on the rabid Trump haters.   They see Tuesday's election results in Kentucky and Virginia as proof positive of Trump's imminent defeat, ignoring the reality that the Democrats are still climbing out of a deep political hole from the Obama years.

 

 

 

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Trump outperformed Obama for his first mid-terms, gaining GOP Senate seats and losing the House with only half as many defeats as Obama.   But that objective reality is lost on the rabid Trump haters.   They see Tuesday's election results in Kentucky and Virginia as proof positive of Trump's imminent defeat, ignoring the reality that the Democrats are still climbing out of a deep political hole from the Obama years.

 

 

 

They will grasp at any straw to pretend like Trump is losing even when it's very obvious that he's winning. They refuse to live a world where Trump can be politically successful, even when it comes just to getting elected and re-elected, so they go full cognitive dissonance about it and then start confirmation bias scrambling to cherry pick things that show Trump in a negative light to maintain their delusion that he's secretly failing.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[godzilla]

great, now maybe Trump supporters could refer to my original question. what type of illegality would make you give up on Trump. how bad would it actually have to be. ask yourself that question. and wonder if that's actually a bad thing if you can't come up with an answer.

[DogOnPorch]

3 minutes ago, godzilla said:

great, now maybe Trump supporters could refer to my original question. what type of illegality would make you give up on Trump. how bad would it actually have to be. ask yourself that question. and wonder if that's actually a bad thing if you can't come up with an answer.

 

This assumes Trump is doing something illegal. Only those with TDS assume this without evidence. 

[godzilla]

no actually, there is no assumption, its not implied implicitly or explicitly... i'll state the question again to be clear: what illegality would Trump have to perform in order for Trump supporters to de-support him? if you are a Trump supporter then what proven illegal activity would cause you to stop supporting Trump?

Edited November 7, 2019 by godzilla

[Guest PPC2019]

I would like a yes or no answer. Do you want to see Donald Trump re-elected?

[QuebecOverCanada]

3 hours ago, godzilla said:

great, now maybe Trump supporters could refer to my original question. what type of illegality would make you give up on Trump. how bad would it actually have to be. ask yourself that question. and wonder if that's actually a bad thing if you can't come up with an answer.

This is a dumb question.

It's like a Republican asking whether Democrats would support Obama despite him committing a totally hypothetical crime. 

[godzilla]

no, its not a dumb question. and I propose that it tells a lot about fervent supporters of just about anything... I, for one, certainly know when I would regret voting for a particular candidate. they don't get carte blanche to do whatever they want.

and maybe that's whats going to be the most shocking to fervent supporters of political parties or politicians... that there are people out there who are not locked in. there are people who when told to drink the cool aide then say "no, not doing that".

Edited November 7, 2019 by godzilla

[bush_cheney2004]

President Trump is a means to an end, and he will retain base support until he no longer serves that purpose.   Trump's main contribution to date has been to stop Hillary Clinton from becoming president, but there have been other benefits as well.

Previous U.S. presidents got away with a lot using the power of their office, so there is no reason to expect Trump to be any different.

Play the game as designed....catch him....impeach him....remove him from office.   If Trump is so bad, why hasn't this happened already ?

 

[godzilla]

again, the rule of law is all between one and tyranny. this seems to be the argument that Trump and the machine push... that everyone is corrupt. choose your corruption. what I will suggest is that no, all corruption needs to be dealt with appropriately to the rule of law. I mean, your argument is that, yes, Trump is above the law. is that what you're saying?

and what if he gets away with this? every part of American policy is open to being dependent on something for Trump? then it'll be a cut in his pocket like the Russian oligarchs?

like I said, there is a line. I'm asking about it. I'm really interested in why no one provides any answers.

Edited November 7, 2019 by godzilla

[bush_cheney2004]

13 minutes ago, godzilla said:

again, the rule of law is all between one and tyranny. this seems to be the argument that Trump and the machine push... that everyone is corrupt. choose your corruption. what I will suggest is that no, all corruption needs to be dealt with appropriately to the rule of law. I mean, your argument is that, yes, Trump is above the law. is that what you're saying?

 

No, what I am saying is that Trump will push the boundaries of his office just like previous U.S. presidents.   President Obama certainly did...with drone executions of American citizens abroad, DACA, Fast & Furious, etc., etc.   Why is Trump being held to a different standard ?

 

Quote

and what if he gets away with this? every part of American policy is open to being dependent on something for Trump? then it'll be a cut in his pocket like the Russian oligarchs?

like I said, there is a line. I'm asking about it. I'm really interested in why no one provides any answers.

 

You have been given answers...just not to your liking.  

American policy has always been dependent on getting something...for American interests.

 

[OftenWrong]

My opinion, as long as Donald Trump keeps doing the things that matter his level of support will not fall. People who support him are not concerned about his character flaws. They do not offset his political accomplishments in a negative way. In fact, the way that Donald Trump uses his abrasive character to keep liberals off balance is something his supporters like very much!

[Cannucklehead]

32 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No, what I am saying is that Trump will push the boundaries of his office just like previous U.S. presidents.   President Obama certainly did...with drone executions of American citizens abroad, DACA, Fast & Furious, etc., etc.   Why is Trump being held to a different standard ?

 

 

You have been given answers...just not to your liking.  

American policy has always been dependent on getting something...for American interests.

 

Because trump was constantly voicing his disapproval of Obama's methods, policies and spending.  Guess trump found out the hard way that he was nothing more than an armchair quarterback.  

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Cannucklehead said:

Because trump was constantly voicing his disapproval of Obama's methods, policies and spending.  Guess trump found out the hard way that he was nothing more than an armchair quarterback.  

 

Was....was an armchair quarterback, same as other Americans (and Canadians who can't get enough U.S. politics).

But now Trump is the president....and Clinton is not.

[Guest]

No.

[Argus]

No, absolutely not. A thousand times no.