USA Sinks into Authoritarinism

[ReeferMadness]

Chris Hedges has one of the finest minds around.  He's kind of wasted at MLW, where people can't even read a simple article and pick out a few key points.

He says something about US that might have easily been written about the normal discourse around here.

Quote

When national and political discourse is no longer rooted in verifiable fact, then facts are interchangeable with opinions; truth is whatever you want it to be.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

1.  America is now a state of consumption rather than a state of production, paid for through borrowing (increasing debt to pay for tax cuts).  We'd like to think more people are working at middle class jobs, but that isn't really the case.

2.  Democratic institutions are seriously weakened as government has been painted as the scapegoat for social problems rather than a solution, and gutted accordingly.

3.  Many of the disenfranchised are either checking out through opioids or taking solace in right-wing extremism.

4.  What's especially concerning is that the U.S. is quite a violent society replete with weaponry, so when people express their frustration and rage, the results won't be pretty. 

5.  What tools will there be to fix the mess after a crash, with interest rates already low and debt already high?

 

1) Yes....that has been true for almost 50 years.   So what is taking so long for the collapse ?

2) Yes....government is the problem in many cases, a common thread throughout U.S. history as it rose to become the global hegemon.

3)  Just say no to drugs didn't work...never will.   Canada is about to legalize dope...just like many U.S. states.

4)  Very very violent.....and has always been that way.  Violence is an American value...starting with shooting the British right in the ass.

5)  Creative destruction has worked many times in U.S. history....including a civil war that killed over 600,000.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

24 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

1) Yes....that has been true for almost 50 years.   So what is taking so long for the collapse ?

2) Yes....government is the problem in many cases, a common thread throughout U.S. history as it rose to become the global hegemon.

3)  Just say no to drugs didn't work...never will.   Canada is about to legalize dope...just like many U.S. states.

4)  Very very violent.....and has always been that way.  Violence is an American value...starting with shooting the British right in the ass.

5)  Creative destruction has worked many times in U.S. history....including a civil war that killed over 600,000.

 

 

 

 

I know, we're all just looking down a hall of mirrors.  Everything old is new again.  There's nothing new under the sun...

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I know, we're all just looking down a hall of mirrors.  Everything old is new again.  There's nothing new under the sun...

 

Indeed...I hope Mr. Hedges sells lots of books...peddling old ideas to a new generation.

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Indeed...I hope Mr. Hedges sells lots of books...peddling old ideas to a new generation.

Every generation has its counterculture.  McLuhan wrote about that.  It's in Greek tragedy, Orestes winning his innocence in a trial.  New beats old essentially.

[WestCanMan]

12 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Some important points to take away: 

1.  America is now a state of consumption rather than a state of production, paid for through borrowing (increasing debt to pay for tax cuts).  We'd like to think more people are working at middle class jobs, but that isn't really the case.

2.  Democratic institutions are seriously weakened as government has been painted as the scapegoat for social problems rather than a solution, and gutted accordingly.

3.  Many of the disenfranchised are either checking out through opioids or taking solace in right-wing extremism.

4.  What's especially concerning is that the U.S. is quite a violent society replete with weaponry, so when people express their frustration and rage, the results won't be pretty. 

5.  What tools will there be to fix the mess after a crash, with interest rates already low and debt already high?

1) he said that living in a state of consumption started in the 70’s. I don’t know if you meant for this to be a Trump hatefest video but #1 has nothing to do with Trump. The US is creating more oil and gas than ever before under Trump, and he’s also reversing the death of the coal industry. Moving towards energy self-sufficiency is a three-pronged benefit to the country. Less money going out, more people working, more tax revenue. America is lucky Trump got elected. He’s also clawing back the trade deficit, which is what this is about. Yay Trump! 

2) Democratic institutions remain democratic when they work within the framework of the constitution. Ie, judges interpret the constitution instead of changing it from the bench. Yay Gorsuch and Kavanaugh!

3) I’m pretty sure that if you look at the drug-dependent crowd you’re looking at left wingers. People who want hand-outs. The Bernie Sanders crowd. I don’t know many junkies that are against free stuff. Where is all this right wing extremism that everyone is talking about? Antifa and BLM are the only groups running amok, burning, looting and killing cops. 

4) True

5) Canada is in a far worse state than the US in that regard. A condo in Surrey costs as much as a house in Vegas. Our government is busy killing our energy sector and piling up massive debt. Our manufacturing sector, small as it is, relies on the US economy. I’ll take Trump’s economic plan over our village idiot’s plan any day. 

[WestCanMan]

11 hours ago, ReeferMadness said:

Chris Hedges has one of the finest minds around.  He's kind of wasted at MLW, where people can't even read a simple article and pick out a few key points.

He says something about US that might have easily been written about the normal discourse around here.

 

 

Quote

When national and political discourse is no longer rooted in verifiable fact, then facts are interchangeable with opinions; truth is whatever you want it to be.

Is this an admission of guilt? You're the quickest one here to dish out insults and opinions, and the last to debate facts.

"The whiner who wrote the article says that McConnell cheated to block Obama's appointee, and to get Republican nominations in, and it's an erosion of the institution waaah" lol. That's the kind of thing that you and dialamah pass as facts around here. Fact is that McConnell had the hammer and he used it. VOTERS put the Republicans in charge of the Senate. The Senate did as they saw fit, using the power granted them by the electorate. They confirmed two judges who abide by the constitution, instead of judges who rule by the bench. That's the exact opposite of authoritarianism. Would you like me to verify these facts for you? Do you need a link? 

When you reply to this, and skip the chance to talk about the facts I presented, and refer to someone else's opinion which is long on accusations and devoid of facts, and call me a dumb-dumb, you're actually the guys whose political discourse isn't rooted in verifiable facts. 

Your whole thread is predicated on the OPINION that the Republicans appointed a guy who was "facing serious allegations" (even the Dems stopped saying he's guilty of anything, and it's a rare thing for them to stop belching out unsubstantiated accusations) of being a serial rapist, etc, etc. Do you want to take a second look at your opening post and tell me how much of it is verifiable fact....... how much is pure opinion? Prove that Kavanaugh is a serial rapist reefer....! We both know that's impossible. You've just been hoisted on your petard.

Edited October 9, 2018 by WestCanMan

[eyeball]

On 10/6/2018 at 10:40 PM, Zeitgeist said:

You're right.  About this we should rejoice.

Apparently we're shouldn't be rejoicing too much lest Trumpazoids start thinking they missed out on something.

[WestCanMan]

Quote

 

When a supreme court nominee runs into problems with serious allegations of sexual predation, the president orders a sham investigation; a move right out of the playbook of Validimir Putin.  As millions of the president's useful idiots (some of whom post right here on MLW!) concoct ridiculous rationalizations, the national law enforcement agency meekly follows the president's orders without a peep.  Despite the fact that the nominee has obviously been lying to congress for weeks, he is confirmed anyway.    What has happened this week is a stride towards a descent into authoritarianism, American style.

With a supreme court justice installed in such a disgraceful and corrupt fashion, what intelligent, thinking person could believe that when he needs to rule on Trump's corruption, he will render and impartial vote towards the verdict?

Unlike Russia, we are unlikely to see President Trump become president for life (although the way Trump lives and eats, that's unlikely to be long anyway).  The USA is now an oligarchy and Trump is himself the ultimate useful idiot, a reality TV personality playing the role of president.  Trump, a sad caricature completely lacking a moral compass who bumbles from issue to issue gathering headlines, makes the billionaires richer with huge tax cuts while simultaneously driving up military spending.  The USA is a jet and he's pointed the nose straight down and pushed the throttle to the max.   When he leaves or dies, there will be other useful idiots who come along right behind him.

 

Here's your litany of "verifiable facts" lol. 

Is this a serious allegation?  "In about 82 or 83 I went to a party somewhere, I don't remember who I went with, how I got there, or how I got home, and my lifelong friend will testify for me (ok they say they never heard of this. So weird. Everyone says that. Not a single soul on earth will vouch for me. Weird.) but I have PTSD from the attempted rape so I need two doors on my house (lie) and I also have a fear of flying (lie) so I didn't want to come out here to testify under oath and believe it or not I'm the only person in the USA who didn't know that the Republican Senators offered to come to where I live to get my testimony"???

Is this a serious allegation? "I went to a party and BK and his friends gang raped a girl there. Then I went to like, 9 more of those gang rape parties." Like I said before - how good does a gang-rape party have to be in order for a teenage girl to go to a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th.....10th one? Does this sound credible to you? If someone said that about Obama would you call it a serious allegation? Bill Clinton? 

Which allegation was really serious? If Ford's was serious, why didn't Feinstein start an investigation after she spoke with her? Why did they sit on it? Why did Ford want to remain anonymous? Why was Ford's testimony COMPLETELY devoid of material facts? How can you do more than just a sham investigation into a 35 or 36 year old case with zero witnesses and no location? Can you VERIFY that it was actually a sham investigation? Prove that somehow they didn't take it seriously enough? 

Busted. You're the all sizzle no steak guy here reefer.

Can you define how Trump has some corruption to be ruled on or is that opinion? Or show where Kavanuagh was proven to be corrupt?

If a judge rules by the constitution is that authoritarianism? 

Every single thing you said was an unverifiable opinion. Every. Single. Thing. Strong opinions need accompanying facts. 

[Wilber]

If the US is so energy self sufficient, why is Trump so upset at OPEC for not increasing production to make up for the Iran sanctions and why do they buy 4 million barrels a day from us?  Thermal coal should be a dying industry, the sooner the better.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Wilber

[WestCanMan]

Just now, Wilber said:

If the US is so energy self sufficient, why is Trump so upset at OPEC for not increasing production to make up for the Iran sanctions and why do they buy 4 million barrels a day from us?  Thermal coal should be a dying industry, the sooner the better.

I said "moving towards energy self-sufficiency". Obama was moving away from it, just like Trudeau is.

[Wilber]

US imports from us are continuing to increase.

 

US oil and petroleum imports from Canada.

 

Total imports decreased under Obama.

US oil imports 1981-2018

Edited October 9, 2018 by Wilber

[eyeball]

On 10/7/2018 at 10:54 AM, Zeitgeist said:

It's a figurehead whose main function is to ensure that parliament is acting in the interests of the people.

Its a sham if the gap between rich and poor is anything to go by.  That said capitalism is clearly performing better than it ever has.

[WestCanMan]

17 minutes ago, Wilber said:

US imports from us are continuing to increase.

 

US oil and petroleum imports from Canada.

 

Total imports decreased under Obama.

US oil imports 1981-2018

https://www.forbes.com/sites/judeclemente/2018/07/29/u-s-crude-oil-production-and-exports-soar-to-record-highs/#7309c2e77793

This is what you need to know about oil production. From Forbes. Highest oil production ever. This year. Period. I'm not sure how you can argue that. 

 

 

[Wilber]

28 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/judeclemente/2018/07/29/u-s-crude-oil-production-and-exports-soar-to-record-highs/#7309c2e77793

This is what you need to know about oil production. From Forbes. Highest oil production ever. This year. Period. I'm not sure how you can argue that. 

 

 

Exports have gone up but so have imports. The US is a net importer of oil, 3.77 million barrels a day.

 

Imports and exports

Edited October 9, 2018 by Wilber

[WestCanMan]

55 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Exports have gone up but so have imports. The US is a net importer of oil, 3.77 million barrels a day.

 

Imports and exports

Production is at it's highest ever, but so is the GDP. For the second time - I never said that they were energy self sufficient Wilbur, go look again. But it's a better target to move towards than away from. 

Trump is an energy-friendly President. Get it?

[Zeitgeist]

9 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Production is at it's highest ever, but so is the GDP. For the second time - I never said that they were energy self sufficient Wilbur, go look again. But it's a better target to move towards than away from. 

Trump is an energy-friendly President. Get it?

I can't tell if you're another fake Canadian "WestCanMan", but I have to call out some inaccuracies as they arise.  You said, "Our [Canada's] government is busy killing our energy sector and piling up massive debt" [and] "Canada is in a far worse state than the US in that regard. "  That is untrue.  The U.S.'s debt is 105.4% of GDP.   Canada's debt is 89.6% of GDP.  What's more, according to Quartz, "The IMF expects only the US to up its debt-to-GDP ratio by 2023."

It's important to discern how much of a rise in GDP is due to public spending (debt), whether in the form of tax cuts or some other stimulus.  If debt is rising faster than GDP, that's a problem.

 

 

 

[Wilber]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Production is at it's highest ever, but so is the GDP. For the second time - I never said that they were energy self sufficient Wilbur, go look again. But it's a better target to move towards than away from. 

Trump is an energy-friendly President. Get it?

US production has been climbing steadily since 2008. Now what happened in 2008? Obama can claim some of the credit but Trump sure as hell can't.  But that doesn't stop him from taking credit for all the growth that has happened for the last ten years even though he has been in office for less than two.

US Crude production

[WestCanMan]

22 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I can't tell if you're another fake Canadian "WestCanMan", but I have to call out some inaccuracies as they arise.  You said, "Our [Canada's] government is busy killing our energy sector and piling up massive debt" [and] "Canada is in a far worse state than the US in that regard. "  That is untrue.  The U.S.'s debt is 105.4% of GDP.   Canada's debt is 89.6% of GDP.  What's more, according to Quartz, "The IMF expects only the US to up its debt-to-GDP ratio by 2023."

It's important to discern how much of a rise in GDP is due to public spending (debt), whether in the form of tax cuts or some other stimulus.  If debt is rising faster than GDP, that's a problem.

 

 

 

1) Our government actually IS killing our energy sector. Killing coal, phasing out the oil sands, chasing away roughly $100 billion in investment.... Are you trying to take me literally at 100% of the energy sector? I thought people would understand that I was speaking about but I guess I should have been more specific. And there's no way that the Trump government is piling up debt faster than the Trudeau government, in relation to our respective GDPs. If you read what you copied and pasted you can clearly see that I'm talking in the present tense about what the Trudeau/Trump governments are doing right now, and not about how much debt our countries both accumulated in our history. 

 

I said "Canada is in a far worse state than the US in that regard" beside #5, which is in response to your #5, which says "What tools will there be to fix the mess after a crash, with interest rates already low and debt already high?" I thought that you were talking about household debt, that's why I included house prices.

 

The reason why I find it so appalling that our government is so happy to do both things at the same time - kill off two large parts of our energy sector and pile up massive debt - is because Canada is a high energy consumption nation. We drive long distances to work, we need to heat homes for 40 million Canadians all winter long.... If we have high debt, and our credit rating drops, and we have to use our ever-depreciating dollar to import energy from abroad, and we have less people paying taxes from those high-income jobs that were lost.... That's a multi-faceted kick in the head. We're getting speed-bagged. 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

I can't tell if you're another fake Canadian "WestCanMan", but I have to call out some inaccuracies as they arise.  You said, "Our [Canada's] government is busy killing our energy sector and piling up massive debt" [and] "Canada is in a far worse state than the US in that regard. "  That is untrue. 

 

Yes it is true.  The "authoritarian" U.S. has rapidly expanded energy production while Canada not only lags behind, but is far more dependent on foreign investment and export markets for that sector (and others).    Canada's economy rises and falls with American conditions, not the other way around.

[WestCanMan]

31 minutes ago, Wilber said:

US production has been climbing steadily since 2008. Now what happened in 2008? Obama can claim some of the credit but Trump sure as hell can't.  But that doesn't stop him from taking credit for all the growth that has happened for the last ten years even though he has been in office for less than two.

US Crude production

I'm happy for Obama's economic recovery, and the increased oil production. 

I recognize that Obama took the reins in an extremely tough time. I know that the massive debt that he piled up was mainly due to the stimulus package that he had no choice but push through. I actually liked Obama up until 2015 - I never really followed him that closely before that. I'm also happy that Trump is continuing that trend of increasing oil volume. I never explicitly gave him credit for every drop of it, I merely juxtaposed his stance on oil against our own PM's stance. Trudeau is actively against Oil and he has said publicly that phasing out the Oil Sands is our goal. Then people wonder why so much investment goes away.

FWIW wilbur, Trump's GDP growth is faster than Obama's GDP growth. That's due to decreased regulations and tax cuts. It was evident that the economy was going to go up when the Dow Jones went ballistic after the election, in anticipation of the things Trump said he would do. (He did them.) That was an indication that businesses believed it was a good time to invest in American businesses, and it's why the economy accelerated upwards. That's what Trump is taking credit for. That, and decreased unemployment, lower than where it's ever been in many cases.

 

Side note about this video: the guy references Trump's lies, and like everyone else who does that, all he has to talk about is the number of people at the inauguration lol. Trump saw a big crowd, he thought it was the biggest ever, they dug up transit ridership info because that was all that they had readily available, he determined that his crowd was biggest based on that data, and he was wrong to do that. It's completely dishonest to say that it was "lying" when he was just "wrong" unless you know what was actually going through his mind at that moment, but that's what fake news does. Jump to the worst possible conclusion and sell it hard. Trump was being arrogant. He was guilty of hubris. But he didn't "lie" at that moment and that's a hugely important distinction. Lying is like what Hillary did regarding dead people in Iraq. Lying was when Trump said he'd show his tax returns. Lies vs being wrong, and not even about anything remotely important. 

 

 

[Wilber]

US GDP growth is coming at the expense of a 1.3 trillion deficit, gutting environmental protections and boosted by tax cuts that aren't paid for. How come it is only Canadian deficits that upset you, even though ours is less than 1/50th of theirs while our population is just 1/10th of theirs.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Wilber

[WestCanMan]

38 minutes ago, Wilber said:

US GDP growth is coming at the expense of a 1.3 trillion deficit, gutting environmental protections and boosted by tax cuts that aren't paid for. How come it is only Canadian deficits that upset you, even though ours is less than 1/50th of theirs while our population is just 1/10th of theirs.

Bloomberg says $700B. Obama ran 4 deficits larger than that. Supposedly the US is posting a $116B surplus for Sept. 

The US deficit includes military spending like we have never seen in Canada, and over $500B in interest payments. 

Trump isn’t killing off his energy sector while he’s doing this, he’s not giving away stupid money like Trudeau, he’s not asking for hordes of illegal immigrants to come get free money either.  

If Trudeau was somehow getting us ahead that would be one thing. He’s not. He’s doing shameless self-promotion at our expense. 

[Wilber]

The White House itself is projecting over a trillion.

 

The Hill

[Zeitgeist]

13 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Bloomberg says $700B. Obama ran 4 deficits larger than that. Supposedly the US is posting a $116B surplus for Sept. 

The US deficit includes military spending like we have never seen in Canada, and over $500B in interest payments. 

Trump isn’t killing off his energy sector while he’s doing this, he’s not giving away stupid money like Trudeau, he’s not asking for hordes of illegal immigrants to come get free money either.  

If Trudeau was somehow getting us ahead that would be one thing. He’s not. He’s doing shameless self-promotion at our expense. 

I hear you about the self-promotion, but Trudeau does seem to be pushing for pipelines, which are greener than shipping by truck or rail.