Faisal Hussain - the evolving story

[capricorn]

23 minutes ago, turningrite said:

I don't think the CBC has been alone in this approach,

Are you not a tiny bit curious why the statement purported to be from the family was emailed to the CBC and no other media? And this  immediately following the disclosure of the shooter's identity. There is more than meets the eye here.

[turningrite]

10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

What in the flying fuck are you babbling about now? Planned mental illness?

You have zero business weighing in on anything to do with mental illness, at all.

Planned mental illness.../facepalm.  

 

Perhaps I missed a comma or committed a grammatical error in my lack of clarity, but the meaning the sentence intends to convey is relatively clear to most readers. If an act has in fact been thought out and planned it's quite likely that mental illness, if it does apply at all, is likely a contributory rather than causal factor. But I think you're gratuitously playing "silly buggers" here rather than trying to make a rational point. So, maybe you should try to be a little more thoughtful and maybe a little less a d**k.

Do you have any background or training in the field of mental illness? If not, you have no business making such a statement any more than do unqualified media commentators who have speculated that mental illness is the likely cause of this incident. Oh, by the way, I do have mental health training and as such i'm aware that it's virtually impossible (and is generally considered irresponsible) to assess a mental illness without direct contact with a person who is believed to be exhibiting symptoms of such. So, I wouldn't assume the shooter suffered an acute current mental illness because I never met him, and I'm also skeptical of believing explanations based on what are essentially vicarious and speculative amateur psychological assessments.

[turningrite]

14 minutes ago, capricorn said:

Are you not a tiny bit curious why the statement purported to be from the family was emailed to the CBC and no other media? And this  immediately following the disclosure of the shooter's identity. There is more than meets the eye here.

I have no idea why it was sent to the CBC. And although I feel sorry for the shooter's family members, I find it quite bizarre that they and/or their advocates so quickly and publicly asserted their interpretation of events. In media terms, I guess, this is considered "getting ahead of the story" but I can't think of another recent case where this has happened. You'd think media in Canada would be more careful about this kind of thing after being manipulated in other cases, including the story about the young girl who had reportedly been attacked for wearing a hijab, which turned out to be hoax.

[Hal 9000]

We all know what it was - it was a terrorist attack.  We know it, the police know it, Trudeau knows it and Dailamah knows it.  They don't want the truth, they want plausible deniability, and "mental illness" gives them that.  I suppose mental illness has an effect in so much as any terrorist is mentally ill, but that's not gonna be enough, it will be sold as "mental illness and too many guns, Islam...no way"!

"I believe that what you say is the undisputed truth, but I have to have things my own way...to keep me in my youth" - Roger Hodgson

[GostHacked]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

This shouldn't come as any surprise in a society that profoundly stigmatizes mental illness thereby giving people suffering from it cause to not make their illness public.

 

Actually it does. While there may well be triggers and such that are rooted in the real world outside a mentally ill person's psychosis it is the psychosis itself that is at issue.  

Maybe it was ISIS?  I know that groups loves taking responsibility for every terror attack that happens.

Some of his friends are coming forth and telling us this person has had some issues for a while. Now some would say 'YA CAUZE HE IS MUSLIM!!!' .  but everything I hear about this, is that this person was simply very mentally ill.

3 hours ago, taxme said:

So, we will just try and overlook all the massive shootings and the running down of innocent people that has happened in Canada as just another poor little Arab boy who just lost it, right?

It is not the conservatives who are the problem here. It is the liberals that are to blame here. They keep bringing in more of these Muslims who clearly do not want to have anything to do with our Canadian culture and how we do things here and the liberals appear to be asking for more of this killing of innocent Canadian people by bringing in more of them. There comes a time when our politicians have to say enough already and that we have a problem here with that this certain religious group of people need to be looked at more seriously. Works for me. 

Yeah but then that does not quite explain things like the Las Vegas shooting. Or other mass shootings committed by anyone that is not Muslim.

[taxme]

1 minute ago, GostHacked said:

Maybe it was ISIS?  I know that groups loves taking responsibility for every terror attack that happens.

Some of his friends are coming forth and telling us this person has had some issues for a while. Now some would say 'YA CAUZE HE IS MUSLIM!!!' .  but everything I hear about this, is that this person was simply very mentally ill.

Yeah but then that does not quite explain things like the Las Vegas shooting. Or other mass shootings committed by anyone that is not Muslim.

I thought that we are talking about Canada and the Muslim killings that have gone on here in Canada, not America?  

But it is for sure as day America will be brought up somehow. Next you will be blaming Trump for the shooting in Las Vegas somehow or maybe even try and blame the Russians? LOL. 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, taxme said:

....But it is for sure as day America will be brought up somehow. Next you will be blaming Trump for the shooting in Las Vegas somehow or maybe even try and blame the Russians? LOL. 

 

You got that right....nothing happens in Canada without bringing up what happens in the USA.    It's a Canadian value !

[Hal 9000]

16 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Maybe it was ISIS?  I know that groups loves taking responsibility for every terror attack that happens.

Some of his friends are coming forth and telling us this person has had some issues for a while. Now some would say 'YA CAUZE HE IS MUSLIM!!!' .  but everything I hear about this, is that this person was simply very mentally ill.

Yeah but then that does not quite explain things like the Las Vegas shooting. Or other mass shootings committed by anyone that is not Muslim.

Different types of people kill for different reasons.  You can call it profiling...or write it off as stereotyping

[Centerpiece]

7 hours ago, betsy said:

A man with the name Singh said that he came face to face with the shooter in an alley.  The shooter reassured him "do not worry, I'm not gonna shoot you."  Singh speculates that it's probably due to his brown skin.

 

More likely, he didn't shoot him because he was a man. Although it's not widely publicized, it's been said he was targeting women - who apparently should not be out having a good time without a male escort. I'd like to hear this tidbit verified - did he or din't he specifically target females? There's a lot of conjecture out there but I see nothing wrong with posting the facts as they emerge and let people make up their minds. 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Centerpiece

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Centerpiece said:

1)  it's been said he was targeting women - who apparently should not be out having a good time without a male escort.

2) There's a lot of conjecture out there  ...

1) Conjecture

2) See #1

[scribblet]

6 hours ago, capricorn said:

Are you not a tiny bit curious why the statement purported to be from the family was emailed to the CBC and no other media? And this  immediately following the disclosure of the shooter's identity. There is more than meets the eye here.

A lot more, we don't know that he had a mental illness, all we know is what is in a letter from a Muslim activist with an agenda,  not from the family , which the cbc hid so lied and knowingly misled the public.

[turningrite]

5 hours ago, Hal 9000 said:

We all know what it was - it was a terrorist attack.  We know it, the police know it, Trudeau knows it and Dailamah knows it.  They don't want the truth, they want plausible deniability, and "mental illness" gives them that.  I suppose mental illness has an effect in so much as any terrorist is mentally ill, but that's not gonna be enough, it will be sold as "mental illness and too many guns, Islam...no way"!

"I believe that what you say is the undisputed truth, but I have to have things my own way...to keep me in my youth" - Roger Hodgson

I don't know whether the police, Trudeau or anybody else is necessarily certain of the shooter's motives at this point. I listened to a public security expert who when interviewed on a news broadcast this evening admitted that it's possible the shooter was motivated by terrorism without being associated with a specific terrorist group. It's been reported on the CBC website that ammunition for an assault rifle (which wasn't the kind of weapon used in the shooting) was found in the shooter's apartment. According to the CBC piece (link below), their "sources spoke on a condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the investigation." And the shooter's brother, who is in a coma, was reportedly involved in gang activity. The family, which has raised mental health as an explanation for the shooter's actions, reportedly denies knowledge of their other son's activities. Hmmm... So, there's probably a lot more going on here than we're being told.  I concur with your concern about plausible deniability. and like many on here am surprised and somewhat alarmed that officials seem to be operating on a 'move on, there's nothing interesting to see here' basis. Maybe we're too familiar with the kind of explicit, immediate and forthright disclosure and reporting approach we see in the U.S., but if this is so I actually prefer the American model, as I suspect do many other Canadians. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/danforth-gunman-suicide-1.4761775

Edited July 26, 2018 by turningrite

[Michael Hardner]

I'm sorry for those of you who are so eager to post that religion is the cause of this disaster that you are upset that it *may* be mental illness as the cause.  Let rational inquiry never ever get in the way of your anger-tainment.

[Centerpiece]

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) Conjecture

2) See #1

Thanks for repeating what I said. I have since confirmed that in fact 16 people were shot - 8 were male, 8 were female.

Quote

He said that a total 16 people were shot — a tally that includes the dead suspect — eight were male and eight were female. The victims ranged in age from 10 to 59, the chief said. Police say their families have been notified.

Link: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/toronto/article-one-dead-13-injured-gunman-killed-in-toronto-mass-shooting/

Edited July 26, 2018 by Centerpiece

[Centerpiece]

18 hours ago, betsy said:

A man with the name Singh said that he came face to face with the shooter in an alley.  The shooter reassured him "do not worry, I'm not gonna shoot you."  Singh speculates that it's probably due to his brown skin.

 

Betsy - my apologies - I had suggested that it was because he was targeting women. I was mistaken - 8 were male, 8 were female. The information I came across was related to the Yonge street carnage - which was targeted at women. So it does seem that Mr. Singh's "speculation" was likely correct.

[scribblet]

Look facts. Alcohol & substance abuse far outweigh mental illness in contributing to violence.
Strongest predictor of violence is not major mental illness, but past history of violence and criminality.
https://t.co/6ITQ1NTZ4d

[Goddess]

10 hours ago, turningrite said:

Maybe we're too familiar with the kind of explicit, immediate and forthright disclosure and reporting approach we see in the U.S., but if this is so I actually prefer the American model, as I suspect do many other Canadians. 

It seems odd to me that when these attacks happen in Europe, it's "terrorism".  But when the exact same kinds of attacks happen in Canada involving the same religion, it's "mental illness."

If I'm understanding correctly, an event isn't called terrorism by our government unless the person is a proven active member of ISIS or Al Queda or whatever.  Yet, ISIS repeatedly has put out a call for anyone who admires their ideology to conduct attacks in whatever country they are in.  To me, whether they are formally affiliated with ISIS or not, if they are carrying out violent attacks on the public in support of Islam - that's terrorism, lone wolf or not.

[turningrite]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm sorry for those of you who are so eager to post that religion is the cause of this disaster that you are upset that it *may* be mental illness as the cause.  Let rational inquiry never ever get in the way of your anger-tainment.

I think you're misreading the tenor of the concerns expressed on this topic, which is that many believe officials may be withholding crucial information and that in the vacuum that's been created media outlets are imposing a narrative about mental illness that may or may not be credible. We know that all too often in this country an elite consensus rather than evidence drives public perception, so we've justifiably become cynics.

[scribblet]

Exactly.  It would be helpful to have verification of this illness but police may be working on it.  So far there is no evidence he was mentally ill to the point of deadly violence, which is extremely rare for people who are mentally ill, other than the word of a professional activist speaking on behalf of the family. He had a res. In Afghanistan and had been visited by police over going to isis Web sites.   his brother was involved with guns etc.

He was armed for war,” said a source. “The cost of having that weaponry would be extensive. That kind of stuff does not come cheap.”

One officer said in his years on the job, he has never come across a shooter better with a gun than Hussain.

“He was very proficient,” said the officer. “I can’t imagine he could change magazines on the run, avoid jamming and hit targets as accurately as he did, had he not had some firearms training and experience.”

https://torontosun.com/news/crime/warmington-danforth-shooter-was-armed-for-war-cops-say

  We are being manipulated by the spin doctors.  Tara fatah is calling it a Jihad attack 

Edited July 26, 2018 by scribblet

[capricorn]

46 minutes ago, scribblet said:

 We are being manipulated by the spin doctors.  Tara fatah is calling it a Jihad attack 

Have you noticed, some media are reporting the shooter's brother who is in a coma, suffered a stroke and others report he had a drug overdose. Come on, there's a vast difference in the two conditions. Reporting a stroke raises sympathy from some people for the shooter's family. On the other hand drug overdose raises the specter of a criminal life.

[Goddess]

1 minute ago, capricorn said:

Have you noticed, some media are reporting the shooter's brother who is in a coma, suffered a stroke and others report he had a drug overdose. Come on, there's a vast difference in the two conditions. Reporting a stroke raises sympathy from some people for the shooter's family. On the other hand drug overdose raises the specter of a criminal life.

Maybe a stroke predicated by a drug overdose?

But ya, I noticed the same thing.

[eyeball]

20 hours ago, turningrite said:

Perhaps I missed a comma or committed a grammatical error in my lack of clarity, but the meaning the sentence intends to convey is relatively clear to most readers. If an act has in fact been thought out and planned it's quite likely that mental illness, if it does apply at all, is likely a contributory rather than causal factor. 

 

Your explanation of what you meant is every bit as garbled but its clear you're still missing the point that psychosis negates any thinking or planning going thru the head of people suffering it.

 

Quote

Do you have any background or training in the field of mental illness?

I'm quite familiar with people who suffer severe mental illness and especially how moral, political and religious ignorance produces much of the stigma that goes with it.   Whatever training you may have you must have missed the part where people are cautioned against engaging with or giving any weight to a psychotic person's thoughts.  And that's exactly what you and other people obsessed with the co-incident Islamic aspect here are doing.   You see the very same thing happening when family or community members in denial about mental illness cite inorganic that is to say completely unrelated causes to another family or community members organic illness - even attributing it to how they were raised or not raised as the case may be.

Delving into a psychotic person's thoughts and searching for some external input or cause you can get your heads around will only lead to more madness, stigma and of course ignorance.  

 

Edited July 26, 2018 by eyeball

[Argus]

21 hours ago, turningrite said:

I don't think the CBC has been alone in this approach, although by yesterday other news outlets were addressing statements made by people who said they didn't think the Danforth shooter was exhibiting overt signs of mental illness. Obviously, there appear to have been indications of mental illness in his past, to the extent that the police were aware of this. It

It would help if the police disclosed what this was about, and if he was under treatment, or had ever been under treatment, what type of treatment was disclosed and what medical authority diagnosed him.

[Centerpiece]

1 hour ago, capricorn said:

Have you noticed, some media are reporting the shooter's brother who is in a coma, suffered a stroke and others report he had a drug overdose. Come on, there's a vast difference in the two conditions. Reporting a stroke raises sympathy from some people for the shooter's family. On the other hand drug overdose raises the specter of a criminal life.

Here's the summary of the brother - Fahad Hussain.......I think we could say there's a "specter" of criminality with this guy. Here's a snippet but it's worth reading the whole story. Another layer of the onion.

Quote

 

Released on Feb. 21 of that year on $10,000 bail, he was ordered to live in Pickering with his surety, a 33-year-old named Maisum Ansari.

At some point between February 2017 and September 2017, Fahad suffered a medical incident and was sent to hospital, where he is now in a coma. On Sept. 20, 2017, Durham Regional Police executed a search warrant at Ansari’s address after firefighters noticed a suspicious substance in the basement and alerted police.

Police say they discovered 33 guns and seized 42 kilograms of what was later identified as the deadly street drug carfentanil, believed to be 100 times more potent than fentanyl.

 

Link: https://globalnews.ca/news/4353028/danforth-shooter-older-brother-coma-charges/

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm sorry for those of you who are so eager to post that religion is the cause of this disaster that you are upset that it *may* be mental illness as the cause.  Let rational inquiry never ever get in the way of your anger-tainment.

There seems to be as much cause to blame the media especially the massive one. As exposed as we are to that we're likely all psychotic. We're all racists now so why not nuts?