A Liberal Cabinet Minister gets Metoo'd

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, PIK said:

Men will never admit to that. I known men who were abused by thier wives and would never say a thing. I hope one does .

Nations rarely also ever admit to abusing their power and when they do it's usually kicking and screaming every inch of the way.

Just look at the whining that happens when the SCC for example forces power to bow towards truth in the case of native people or Omar Khadr.  There's never much discussion about punishing a country when it breaks the law.

Maybe when citizens whine loud enough it somehow diminishes the need.

[Argus]

12 hours ago, dialamah said:

The fact that so many men here can't tell the difference between enthusiastic participation and unwanted advances is an indication of why so many men are being felled for being clumsy oafs and offending women they hope to woo. 

I worked in the public service for some years and was a shop steward. I attended harassment seminars and also hearings against people and groups accused of sexual harassment. I can tell you that any manager or director or DG who hugged his female colleagues and employees would be out in short order, regardless of how well-intended it was or how receptive they were. There was one case where a woman was complaining about the sexual atmosphere in a group and was able to use such things as a man who leaned forward to look at a computer screen putting his hand on his female colleague's shoulder (female colleague was a friend and wasn't bothered in he least) and a male manager patted a female on the back. The standard in government is no touching whatsoever for any reason other than a firm brief handshake.

[Omni]

11 minutes ago, Argus said:

I worked in the public service for some years and was a shop steward. I attended harassment seminars and also hearings against people and groups accused of sexual harassment. I can tell you that any manager or director or DG who hugged his female colleagues and employees would be out in short order, regardless of how well-intended it was or how receptive they were. There was one case where a woman was complaining about the sexual atmosphere in a group and was able to use such things as a man who leaned forward to look at a computer screen putting his hand on his female colleague's shoulder (female colleague was a friend and wasn't bothered in he least) and a male manager patted a female on the back. The standard in government is no touching whatsoever for any reason other than a firm brief handshake.

That government work must have been so stifling . My first instruction on a certain type of aircraft was with a lovely woman, and a rather famous one at that, but I didn't need a pre training session to tell me not to put my hands on her. I  guess certain people do.

[Rue]

Yes some people still put their hands on someone's shoulder or hug them and it will have to stop unless you are Justin and Omni meeting for a photo oprtunity. Then they and Seamus and Bill can patt each other on their bums and call it football.

[PIK]

I guess we do not need to put women on our subs after all this.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, PIK said:

I guess we do not need to put women on our subs after all this.

Onions, green peppers and olives is what I usually put on mine!

Women?  Gross...

[dialamah]

5 hours ago, Argus said:

I worked in the public service for some years and was a shop steward. I attended harassment seminars and also hearings against people and groups accused of sexual harassment. I can tell you that any manager or director or DG who hugged his female colleagues and employees would be out in short order, regardless of how well-intended it was or how receptive they were. There was one case where a woman was complaining about the sexual atmosphere in a group and was able to use such things as a man who leaned forward to look at a computer screen putting his hand on his female colleague's shoulder (female colleague was a friend and wasn't bothered in he least) and a male manager patted a female on the back. The standard in government is no touching whatsoever for any reason other than a firm brief handshake.

Interesting; I've worked for both Federal and Provincial governments for short periods of time and had no idea about that.  It's true that there wasn't a lot of hugging between employees of opposite sex - which is the same as my experience in the private sector - but there was one manager who would often touch other employees on their shoulder or arms; he was very well liked.   He was definitely more 'touchy' than other managers, but then he was an immigrant so perhaps he was missing some cultural information.   Anyway, I think the woman who complained that a manager touched *someone else* is ridiculous and she ought to have been ignored.   Humans are social beings and touch is important.  Rather than banning all touching, the goal should be to educate people as to what constitutes appropriate touching.  

The issue I had with the pic that was posted was that it contributes to the notion that inappropriate touching is exactly the same as appropriate physical contact.   If you can't, or won't, recognize the difference than you are part of the problem, imo.

 

Edited January 27, 2018 by dialamah

[Argus]

20 minutes ago, dialamah said:

The issue I had with the pic that was posted was that it contributes to the notion that inappropriate touching is exactly the same as appropriate physical contact.   If you can't, or won't, recognize the difference than you are part of the problem, imo.

And my point was that in a large bureaucratic organization with a powerful HR, such as the one Trudeau runs, there IS no 'appropriate' physical contact. 

[Omni]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

Yes some people still put their hands on someone's shoulder or hug them and it will have to stop unless you are Justin and Omni meeting for a photo oprtunity. Then they and Seamus and Bill can patt each other on their bums and call it football.

You seem to like to talk about body parts a lot. Are you OK?

[?Impact]

There is a world of difference between a genuine hug with someone you know and are celebrating a success or other event, and running around the office touching everyone. Context is always important.

[taxme]

22 hours ago, capricorn said:

Shocking. I wonder if eventually his hands slid down to her butt? Just wondering. Ha-ha-ha. 

[Omni]

4 minutes ago, taxme said:

Shocking. I wonder if eventually his hands slid down to her butt? Just wondering. Ha-ha-ha. 

[Argus]

1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

There is a world of difference between a genuine hug with someone you know and are celebrating a success or other event, and running around the office touching everyone. Context is always important.

Yeah, because Human Resources is really big on 'context'. It's not like they make flat out rules which they call policy and then punish those who violate policy. Of course not! Perish the thought!

 

[Raymondkidd]

On ‎2018‎-‎01‎-‎25 at 11:20 AM, ?Impact said:

Trudeau wasted no time in dealing with Scott Andrews and Massimo Pacetti, so I wouldn't expect anything different here.

Trudeau the neophyte is a total waste of the govt time and money.

[Raymondkidd]

On ‎2018‎-‎01‎-‎26 at 7:08 PM, eyeball said:

Nations rarely also ever admit to abusing their power and when they do it's usually kicking and screaming every inch of the way.

Just look at the whining that happens when the SCC for example forces power to bow towards truth in the case of native people or Omar Khadr.  There's never much discussion about punishing a country when it breaks the law.

Maybe when citizens whine loud enough it somehow diminishes the need.

 

20 hours ago, Omni said:

You seem to like to talk about body parts a lot. Are you OK?

 

20 hours ago, Omni said:

You seem to like to talk about body parts a lot. Are you OK?

Our PM is one of those touchy feely new age guys who merely follws in his father's footsteps. It's all part of the way he was raised by his PARENTS.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Raymondkidd said:

Our PM is one of those touchy feely new age guys who merely follows in his father's footsteps.  

Maybe.  But his father was an economic nationalist, who was replaced by the first globalist PM we had, Mulroney.  JT is closer to Mulroney in many ways.

[Raymondkidd]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

Maybe.  But his father was an economic nationalist, who was replaced by the first globalist PM we had, Mulroney.  JT is closer to Mulroney in many ways.

His father was once a gr8 believer in communism then softened to become a socialist and then looked to the liberal party to forward his dreams.

[Raymondkidd]

21 hours ago, dialamah said:

Interesting; I've worked for both Federal and Provincial governments for short periods of time and had no idea about that.  It's true that there wasn't a lot of hugging between employees of opposite sex - which is the same as my experience in the private sector - but there was one manager who would often touch other employees on their shoulder or arms; he was very well liked.   He was definitely more 'touchy' than other managers, but then he was an immigrant so perhaps he was missing some cultural information.   Anyway, I think the woman who complained that a manager touched *someone else* is ridiculous and she ought to have been ignored.   Humans are social beings and touch is important.  Rather than banning all touching, the goal should be to educate people as to what constitutes appropriate touching.  

The issue I had with the pic that was posted was that it contributes to the notion that inappropriate touching is exactly the same as appropriate physical contact.   If you can't, or won't, recognize the difference than you are part of the problem, imo.

 

Sexism in the workplace is nothing but a prescription for disaster PERIOD.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Raymondkidd said:

Sexism in the workplace is nothing but a prescription for disaster PERIOD.

Not to argue in favour of sexism but just because I like to argue - why? I mean, almost the whole world is way WAY more sexist in the workplace than we are, and it doesn't appear to be a disaster for them.

[dialamah]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

Not to argue in favour of sexism but just because I like to argue - why? I mean, almost the whole world is way WAY more sexist in the workplace than we are, and it doesn't appear to be a disaster for them.

This is not your opinion if its Muslims being sexist though; they are misogynistic barbarians, as far as you are concerned.  So why are you giving everyone else in the world a pass?

[Argus]

Just now, dialamah said:

This is not your opinion if its Muslims being sexist though; they are misogynistic barbarians, as far as you are concerned.  So why are you giving everyone else in the world a pass?

I'm not giving them or anyone else a pass. I'm discussing context and comparisons. Has Muslim sexism caused a disaster in the workplace? Well, not really, not that I've seen.  My understanding is that sexism in the workplace is pretty damned blatant in a lot of European countries, to say nothing of Central and South American nations. As for Asia... duh! Nevertheless, despite the sexism Japan and Singapore seem to function quite well. Muslim countries are on a whole other scale, of course, but they're so badly run on so many other levels its hard to point out how sexism has made things worse.

[capricorn]

Quote

"I don't have a rule book handed that's been handed down to me from Wilfrid Laurier as leader of the Liberal Party on how to handle these situations. This is new for organizations to have to deal with in this way," said Trudeau Tuesday when asked why Hehr still sits as a Liberal.

"We are doing the best that we can on a case-by-case basis, starting from a space of respect, of support, of belief."

Trudeau also said the party needs to have due process. An outside firm is handling the Hehr investigation.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-hehr-sexual-allegations-1.4510371

Due process seems not to have helped a couple of Liberal MPs Trudeau abruptly turfed from caucus, never to have been heard from again. Yet, if ever Trudeau himself faced allegations of sexual abuse or other accusations, due process would come in very handy.

[Boges]

I predict JT is going to get Me Too'd by someone and the SJW's will have a dilemma on their hands. You telling me he didn't try to get laid at some point? 

Edited January 30, 2018 by Boges

[Michael Hardner]

Due process didn't help Edmund Muskie.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canuck_letter

[OftenWrong]

4 hours ago, capricorn said:

Quote

"I don't have a rule book handed that's been handed down to me from Wilfrid Laurier as leader of the Liberal Party on how to handle these situations.

 

Perhaps that rule book would not be helpful. Sir Wilfrid Laurier punished the Chinese in Canada by boosting the "head tax", and referred to natives as “the savage nations”, from which it was moral for Canada to take their land.

What happened to being progressive, Mr. Prime Minister?

Edited January 31, 2018 by OftenWrong
improved sentence structure