The pointless waste and vanity of our refugee system

[-TSS-]

Unfortunately, even though the Saudi-regime is rotten to the root, the likeliest alternative to overthrow it is going to be far worse. Actually, if/when the price of oil drops to a point that the Saudi-regime is really facing a threat of being overthrown the ensuing civil-war will make the one in Syria look like a picnic in the park.

[blackbird]

16 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I think that statement is hyperbolic.  Trudeau, Harper et al. chased investment money from all quarters because, well, we have to live in the world.

Could be that money is the object. .They pay lip service to human rights but it can't interfere with trade.

[cannuck]

On 9/15/2017 at 3:51 AM, betsy said:

Just like his dad, Trudeau seems to admire Communist leaders. 

He admired them because he was one of them.  He was a dues-paying member of the Communist Party while studying in Europe, took "frequent walking trips" behind the iron curtain.   The damage done to Canada by PET was huge, and his spawn is simply trying to finish us off.

I can not believe that Canadians can be so ignorant of their history and culture.  I would rather have seen "Tommy the Commie" Douglas as PM - as he was at least honest about his beliefs and intentions (even though he died as a member of a board of directors  of Big Oil)

[blackbird]

On 9/15/2017 at 4:22 AM, Michael Hardner said:

I think that statement is hyperbolic.  Trudeau, Harper et al. chased investment money from all quarters because, well, we have to live in the world.

They pay lip service to human rights in other countries and  Canada goes along like a dumb ox.  Trudeau prefers to admire the Chinese system than say anything against their human rights.

[Michael Hardner]

Can you please give a cite?

[Grand Mal]

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

He admired them because he was one of them.  He was a dues-paying member of the Communist Party while studying in Europe, took "frequent walking trips" behind the iron curtain.   The damage done to Canada by PET was huge, and his spawn is simply trying to finish us off.

I can not believe that Canadians can be so ignorant of their history and culture.  I would rather have seen "Tommy the Commie" Douglas as PM - as he was at least honest about his beliefs and intentions (even though he died as a member of a board of directors  of Big Oil)

Specifics? I can't think of what 'huge damage' Trudeau did to Canada.

[cannuck]

3 minutes ago, Grand Mal said:

Specifics? I can't think of what 'huge damage' Trudeau did to Canada.

Are you kidding!!!!!

Trudeau still holds the record of increasing federal debt at over 700%   https://www.taxpayer.com/media/CoverStory24-27WEB.pdf

When he came to power we had a military force that was respected around the world.  When he left it was nothing but an experiment in social engineering

Fiscal irresponsibility beyond belief.  SRTCs were the worst - one could "do research" and get far more money back in taxes than you spent on the so-called research (no doubt related to what you were kicking back to the Liberal party).

The Governement of Canada went into the oil business!!! (PetroCan) and many, may others where they of course screwed up as only a bureaucrat under political control can possibly do.

Most of all, discounting the hundreds of examples one can easily find, he jerked the politics of this country so far to the left, we have as yet to recover (and may never).

[Argus]

3 hours ago, cannuck said:

I can not believe that Canadians can be so ignorant of their history and culture. 

Canadians aren't taught history any more. Haven't been for years. 

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Grand Mal said:

Specifics? I can't think of what 'huge damage' Trudeau did to Canada.

Opening up immigration to the third world would be one. All our street gangs trace their beginnings to that.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Can you please give a cite?

Simple facts.  Trudeau said he admired the Chinese system because they can turn it on a dime.  I assume he means make instant decisions.  But he in his admiration he said nothing about the fact millions of people were killed in the Communist revolutions and the ongoing denial of human rights.  Dissidents are locked up.  There is not freedom of speech, no freedom of the press, and no fundamental freedoms.  The internet is government controlled.   Yet Trudeau meets with powerful billionaires from China and Canada allows China to invest in industries in Canada and possibly take them over.  Canada is looking for deals with China, but human rights are ignored.

http://www.amnesty.ca/our-work/priority-countries/china

Edited September 17, 2017 by blackbird

[Michael Hardner]

I am fully ready to write off Trudeau for saying something so stupid.  But so far you haven't given me a cite.

[Army Guy]

On 9/15/2017 at 11:48 AM, Peter F said:

No, Zul-Fiqar is right, Canada does not belong to any single race or ethnic group.  If X%of the war cemeteries are occupied by white folks does that give me (a white folk) equivalent % of the country now belong to me? Will we pro-rate who this country belongs to based on ethnicity (and lord knows what else; Religion perhaps) of war-cemetery occupancy?  

 Sorry if you are offended, but I personally believe that the folks in war-cemetaries died for elfin everybody without regard for ethnicity or religion of those everybodies. Or maybe they didn't? Maybe some died for White Christian Canada only and the rest of us can do our own dying?  

And what chance have Zul-Fiqar and others who are non-white christians to fill up our war-cemeteries when white-nationalist bigots bust their ass to makes sure no one but white christians ever get to live her?  No chance whatsoever, of course. So White Nationalist Nazi types will be able to point and say 'see? ... well, yah , that particular grave has a non-white Canadian in it, but thats only one! Look at all the crosses, man!  Oh, yes, that one too over there..and, yah ok, there's some others scattered about. But they didn't die for White-Christian Canada obviously. "

  

Actually he does. Deserves it just as much as you deserve it. Proven by the fact that you are not six-feet under in a war cemetary. 

I just want to be clear from the start , that your right Canada belongs to all Canadians, regardless of color, race, creed , religion ,etc.....and while our Nations war cemeteries are full of men and women of mostly white heritage, there  are also men and women from all the cultures from that period of Canada's history....North American Indian, Japanese, chinese, African American etc.....All giving their sacrifices for our nation, and all of them counting equally.  

That being said when you ask someone from say europe, or asia, or what ever " what does a typical Canadian look like" do they say east indian,Pakistanis, African American, North American Indian.....most of them if not all, will say Canadians are white, and play hockey and live in igloos..... Why is that, while traditional Canada has been white...for most of it's history.....White is still the majority skin color....And you don't need to be a Neo Nazi to see that.....

Lets not even bring up Zul-Fiqar attitude about the whole subject who basically said the same thing.........when he states that he was born in Canada , and his citizenship holds more water than someone who just immigrated here....WOW, who cares...... does that mean that i , having family here in Canada for 5 generations, have more say than ZUL-Fiqar and any Canadian matter i don't think so..........he also states that there should be less white people immigrating to Canada......and then wonders why every one else is a little pissed off at his remarks....his statements were meant to create a negative reaction, he is nothing more than a "troll"....a troll that is not happy with is Canadian citizenship status and one that has a poor historical knowledge about his birth country..........Canada is not holding you prisoner, your free to return to your parents original country....at anytime...it seems racistism is a double edge sword.....  

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I am fully ready to write off Trudeau for saying something so stupid.  But so far you haven't given me a cite.

“There’s a level of admiration I actually have for China because their basic dictatorship is allowing them to actually turn their economy around on a dime and say, ‘We need to go green … we need to start investing in solar.’”

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-under-fire-for-expressing-admiration-for-china-s-basic-dictatorship-1.1535116

[Michael Hardner]

18 minutes ago, Argus said:

“There’s a level of admiration I actually have for China because their basic dictatorship is allowing them to actually turn their economy around on a dime and say, ‘We need to go green … we need to start investing in solar.’”

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-under-fire-for-expressing-admiration-for-china-s-basic-dictatorship-1.1535116

Too bad you have to carry water for Blackbird, but thanks all the same.  In an academic setting, you could make some kind of argument against democracy I suppose... while men in tweed suits scratch their beards and smoke their pipes, but Trudeau is supposed to be, as a democratic leader, an evangelist for democracy.  What a stupid thing to say.

[blackbird]

23 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Too bad you have to carry water for Blackbird, but thanks all the same.  In an academic setting, you could make some kind of argument against democracy I suppose... while men in tweed suits scratch their beards and smoke their pipes, but Trudeau is supposed to be, as a democratic leader, an evangelist for democracy.  What a stupid thing to say.

You asked for something to cite, but I'm not exactly sure what kind of information you are looking for.  Pierre Trudeau was the one who opened diplomatic relations with China in 1970 and it has blossomed ever since.   Pierre Trudeau shunned our traditional allies and cozied up to the USSR, China, and Russia.  That should tell us something.  While Canadians have slept, our Liberal governments have been getting closer and closer to China.

"Canada’s long-standing and comprehensive relationship with the People’s Republic of China operates at many levels and in many areas, including in trade, governance and values, health, education and culture. "

As I said the Liberals (and probably Conservative governments as well) pay lip service to the lack of human rights in China.  This government website describes Canada's  relationship.  Lots of cooperation and business.  Human rights issues?  Not so much. 

http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/china-chine/bilateral_relations_bilaterales/index.aspx?lang=eng

Chairman Mao and Pierre Trudeau

Edited September 17, 2017 by blackbird

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You asked for something to cite, but I'm not exactly sure what kind of information you are looking for. 

You said this: "Trudeau prefers to admire the Chinese system than say anything against their human rights."  I asked for a cite a couple of times, then Argus provided one.

[blackbird]

28 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Too bad you have to carry water for Blackbird, but thanks all the same.  In an academic setting, you could make some kind of argument against democracy I suppose... while men in tweed suits scratch their beards and smoke their pipes, but Trudeau is supposed to be, as a democratic leader, an evangelist for democracy.  What a stupid thing to say.

Nobody says Trudeau needs to be an evangelist for democracy, but there are bigger questions that are well beyond Trudeau and his comments.

China has perhaps a third of the world's population and is economically moving ahead steadily.  But they are still a one-party totalitarian state which does not recognize such a thing as individual human rights.  Some people say China has changed but I would question this.  In what way?  Economically yes, but politically, no.  It is still the same system. 

Since Pierre Trudeau started the diplomatic relations between Canada and China, it has grown tremendously.  There is supposed to be a big difference between our system and theirs as far as human rights.  Some people might think they are just being stubborn and not really understanding what we mean in the west by human rights.   I think it goes far deeper than that.

The Communist revolution was essentially to establish a totalitarian system where everyone works as they are directed and the state in return takes care of everyone.  The essential belief is that there are no such things as individual rights.  The individual is subservient to the state.  The individual only exists for the common good and the state is the supervisor or enforcer of that principle.  Any outside criticism or advice on that basic ideology is considered interference in internal matters of the state and is not welcome

 

[dialamah]

9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You said this: "Trudeau prefers to admire the Chinese system than say anything against their human rights."  

Trudeau has spoken out regarding their human rights, according to this article.

Quote

Justin Trudeau set his sights squarely on China’s human rights record Thursday, painting Canada as a straight-talking champion of personal freedoms as he lectured an elite business crowd on the value of good governance and free expression.

 

[blackbird]

12 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Trudeau has spoken out regarding their human rights, according to this article.

 

Yes,  Trudeau speaks at times on the subject of human rights to "encourage" China.   Personally I think Trudeau and many others are very naive.  They have drunk the Kool Aid so to speak.

I hope you keep an open mind on this subject and don't become too entrenched in defending Trudeau or the liberals on their cozy relationship with China because there is much more to learn about this and what it may mean in the long term.

In your link, this is part of what Trudeau said:

"Building closer economic ties will make it easier for China and Canada to speak frankly about governance, human rights and the rule of law, Trudeau told several hundred people at an event hosted by the Canada China Business Council.

“I remind everyone that as a country that has seen first hand the benefits of free expression and good governance — Canada encourages China to do more to promote and protect human rights,” he said in his 22-minute speech.

“In the global village, we all have stake in what happens here.

“The success of the world is inexorably linked to China’s success, and I know that these are not easy conversations to have, but they are necessary ones.”

   The Liberals and Trudeau seem to be very naive and I think their reasoning is flawed.  I don't believe he is correct at all.  Liberals have the exalted belief that somehow forging closer ties and intertwining Canada's economy with China is going to cause them to listen and change.  This is the biggest fallacy and charade one could imagine. 

AS I said before the whole concept is the individual has not rights;  the collective is all that matters and all individual rights and existence is subservient to the good of the state and collective. 

Edited September 17, 2017 by blackbird

[dialamah]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

Yes,  Trudeau speak at times on the subject of human rights to "encourage" China.   Personally I think Trudeau and many others are very naive.  They have drunk the Kool Aid so to speak

So you support cutting economic and political ties with countries with human rights abuses?   

Did you note the Chinese media taking Canada to task regarding First Nations?  Do you think we, as a country, have treated First Nations poorly?

[blackbird]

Just now, dialamah said:

So you support cutting economic and political ties with countries with human rights abuses?   

Did you note the Chinese media taking Canada to task regarding First Nations?  Do you think we, as a country, have treated First Nations poorly?

I think the Canadian governments since Pierre Trudeau opened diplomatic relationship with China have built up a huge relationship.  No, I am not saying we should or could cut economic and political ties with China or other countries right now.  It is far too big and complex.  FN is a whole different issue.  I would like to stick to the issue of China for now as it has me thinking.  But you raise a good question about where do we go now and what should Canada be doing.

[Michael Hardner]

50 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Nobody says Trudeau needs to be an evangelist for democracy, but there are bigger questions that are well beyond Trudeau and his comments.

I say that.

The other questions you raise are general relations with China, which Nixon and Trudeau both advanced I think.  Both the US and Canada have long dealt with questionable countries and every leader must do this and must balance altruism/self-interest.  That's politics.

[eyeball]

21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

 Both the US and Canada have long dealt with questionable countries and every leader must do this and must balance altruism/self-interest.  That's politics.

No, that's caving.

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No, that's caving.

Your term, but every single person has to deal with someone of questionable moral character.  Even the Unabomber had to go into town for nails.

[eyeball]

Ok then call it what it is, sacrificing our principles... putting money ahead of everything else.

More to the point, stop sugar-coating it.

Our grand-parents dedicated a quarter of Canada's GDP towards fighting tyranny and their grandkids are expected to celebrate and venerate that sacrifice to the point at which failing to do so makes you less than a Canadian.