Quran have been attacked

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, kactus said:

From my experience, having been a member of this forum for a while now one can deduce that the views expressed can represent a cross section of the people within a society.

I don't think so. I think a very particular kind of person goes to a forum to express themselves and argue with others. The vast majority of Canadians I know do not trouble themselves with this let alone keep up with the news or politics. Most people are quiet and prefer to mind their own business. The attitude generally is "you go ahead and do your thing and I will do my thing." It's only when people feel they are being unfairly singled out or given less chance than others, then they feel offended.

An example is this thread- the issue at hand is that there are laws to protect secularism, which suppressed some people's freedom of expression. Before this it was normal to have a prayer at school in the morning. The state took action to eliminate these references. The problem today is people feel Islam is being given preferential treatment. If you listen to the video you will hear one man keeps saying "No special treatment for anyone." That is the issue.

[dialamah]

16 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Are other religions given their own dedicated prayer rooms in our secular public schools;

I spent about 30 minutes looking for a situation in which a school had a Muslim-dedicated prayer room, and could not find one.    So where does this statement come from?  

The closest example I could find was this article from the Toronto Sun, with a story about the Ottawa-Carleton School District offering spaces that are open to all students - although the spaces aren't always available or even the same week-to-week.

Quote

 

But the Ottawa-Carleton District School Board said they always offer a multi-faith prayer room when students ask for one.

There’s a demand for rooms at around 60% to 70% of their schools.

“They are only accessible during non-instruction time and are supervised by staff,” said Walter Piovesan, the board’s associate director of education.

He added none of the schools have permanent prayer rooms.

“While there may be no dedicated room, there is a duty to accommodate under the Ontario Charter of Human Rights,” he said.

 

1

Here's an article which explains the difference between accommodating religion, and proselytizing in the classroom.  

Quote

 

Interfaith Grand River, a coalition of local faith groups, doesn’t support pushing a religion on anyone. During the recent Gideon Bible controversy in which the public school board went ahead with its decades-long policy of distributing bibles to Grade 5 students, members of the group told trustees that no religious text should be distributed in classrooms.

“Religious accommodation is providing an inclusive environment for people of all faiths or no faith, not granting primacy to any one faith or belief,’’ said Pandit, a member of Interfaith Grand River.

“To confuse or equate accommodation with allowing various religious groups to distribute religious texts to public school children, especially if they contain an open invitation to proselytize, is wrong,” she said

 

 

 

[dialamah]

59 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

the issue at hand is that there are laws to protect secularism, which suppressed some people's freedom of expression. Before this it was normal to have a prayer at school in the morning. The state took action to eliminate these references. The problem today is people feel Islam is being given preferential treatment. If you listen to the video you will hear one man keeps saying "No special treatment for anyone." That is the issue.

 

 

There is a difference between holding prayer sessions at school in which all students are expected to take part on a daily basis, and allowing students spaces where they can pray privately without expecting or insisting that all students take part.   Other faiths are allowed the same accommodation if they ask for it; that they have not asked for it, or don't take advantage of the opportunity does not mean Muslims are getting special treatment.

 

[DogOnPorch]

11 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I spent about 30 minutes looking for a situation in which a school had a Muslim-dedicated prayer room, and could not find one.    So where does this statement come from?  

The closest example I could find was this article from the Toronto Sun, with a story about the Ottawa-Carleton School District offering spaces that are open to all students - although the spaces aren't always available or even the same week-to-week.

Here's an article which explains the difference between accommodating religion, and proselytizing in the classroom.  

 

Let's not be coy: only Muslims are clamoring for 'prayer rooms'. Not Hindus, not Buddhists, not Jews, not Christians.....

Only Muslims are demanding special treatment...and they're getting it.

[Altai]

1 hour ago, scribblet said:

Are other religions given their own dedicated prayer rooms in our secular public schools; there have been complains about disbursing bibles in some schools, Christmas trees etc. - yet - they make special allowance for one particular faith, a concept alien to our secular all inclusive public schools.  Do we want to follow the path of one Australian school were there are Muslim only washrooms, should we customize our schools to accommodate religious beliefs - Should children from religious families insist that their children be excused from compulsory music and gym classes, should we change our system and practices to accommodate one religion.  NO - we need to stop the insidious creep of religious apartheid  and segregation from our facilities.   

and BTW, no one has even remotely suggested that our schools or any place else be 'white again',  all that is being asked is to keep religion and it's practices out of our schools along with ending segregation of our students in various activities, including prayers.

ETA:   It's not just Muslim prayers that are allowed, they are also allowing sermons..   are other religions given that privilege?

If you dont have prayer room for your own religion, you should say "I want one" instead of "If I dont have one, then others should not have too" This is hostile and leaves an impression on me that you are not interested with freedom of religion.

 

[dialamah]

36 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Let's not be coy: only Muslims are clamoring for 'prayer rooms'. Not Hindus, not Buddhists, not Jews, not Christians.....

Only Muslims are demanding special treatment...and they're getting it.

Since what they are "demanding" is an accommodation that is guaranteed to them under Ontario's Human Rights Act, I fail to see the problem.  Particularly since that space is available to all students, regardless of their faith.

Perhaps the HRA needs to be changed so that religious accommodation isn't permitted.  At that point accusations of special treatment for providing prayer spaces for students would be legit.  

But since your Islamic faith seeks to marginalize and even kill those who disagree with your version of Islam, I can understand why you'd object to schools having shared prayer spaces for Muslim and kafir.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, dialamah said:

Since what they are "demanding" is an accommodation that is guaranteed to them under Ontario's Human Rights Act, I fail to see the problem.  Particularly since that space is available to all students, regardless of their faith.

Perhaps the HRA needs to be changed so that religious accommodation isn't permitted.  At that point accusations of special treatment for providing prayer spaces for students would be legit.  

But since your Islamic faith seeks to marginalize and even kill those who disagree with your version of Islam, I can understand why you'd object to schools having shared prayer spaces for Muslim and kafir.

 

Nice try, Jihadi.

I am your worst nightmare. A kuffar who has read the Quran.

I fully expect you to support Islam as it attempts to force everybody to dance to its tune.

[dialamah]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

 

Nice try, Jihadi.

I am your worst nightmare. A kuffar who has read the Quran.

I fully expect you to support Islam as it attempts to force everybody to dance to its tune.

Whatever, Islamaphobe.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, dialamah said:

Whatever, Islamaphobe.

 

If there was just some way you could silence me...

[dialamah]

8 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

If there was just some way you could silence me...

Seems to me its the other way around.   

[betsy]

I seriously think having a  Muslim prayer room is part of a bigger, orchestrated  agenda.  It's happening in other places too.

 

• Quote

   

  • Among them was a request from Muslim students for more prayer rooms
  • They also asked for a shuttle bus to take them to a mosque from campus

   

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4059428/Muslim-University-Maryland-students-demand-prayer-rooms-major-building-ask-names-kept-Donald-Trump.html#ixzz4cXSMLywC
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[betsy]

The liberals seem to be really bent on pandering to Islam. 

 

Quote

DNC ‘Interfaith’ Prayer Space Has No Sign Of Any Religion Except Islam

 

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/25/dnc-interfaith-prayer-space-has-no-sign-of-any-religion-except-islam/#ixzz4cXTNAt9s

 

 

 

Need I remind you that there's no motion being proposed against Christianophobia, or Buddhistophobia in Canada.  Our Liberal government is of the same mold as the Democrats.  

 

This kind of blatant pandering to one paricular group isn't normal anymore for any government -especially when they become  blatant about it.  There is more to this than meets the eye, imho.

Edited March 27, 2017 by betsy

[dialamah]

Whilst researching the claim that schools were setting up dedicated Muslim prayer rooms, I ran across a story that I found troubling.  It involves a school using it's cafeteria for Friday prayers.  This bothers me because the cafeteria is for all students and would normally be used.  Worse, however, is that the females were required to pray behind the males.  I do not think a school should allow such overt and blatant sexism on its property even in the name of religious accommodation.  

This story is from 2012 so don't know if its still happening.  But I think that if we as a society are willing to accommodate some private religious practice in our schools, then we should also be allowed to require that blatant sexism not be a part of that practice.  If that is part of their religious ceremony, then Friday prayers should not be part of our accommodation.  I think allowing it in school gives tacit consent to sexism.

http://torontolife.com/city/allah-in-the-cafeteria/

 

Edited March 27, 2017 by dialamah

[betsy]

27 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Whatever, Islamaphobe.

What a stupid response!  Instead, challenge him why he called you a "jihadi."

 

Of course you probably get why you've been called  a "jihadi."

Edited March 27, 2017 by betsy

[dialamah]

3 minutes ago, betsy said:

Need I remind you that there's no motion being proposed against Christianophobia, or Buddhistophobia in Canada.  Our Liberal government is of the same mold as the Democrats.  

There have been several motions condemning anti-Semitism, including a special Protocol on behalf of Jews, defining anti-Semitism.  Its called the Ottawa Protocol; look it up.

Since Christians, Buddhists and other religions are not subject to attacks in the way that Jes and Muslims are, I think its perfectly appropriate that these two religions are given that special consideration.

[betsy]

11 minutes ago, dialamah said:

There have been several motions condemning anti-Semitism, including a special Protocol on behalf of Jews, defining anti-Semitism.  Its called the Ottawa Protocol; look it up.

Since Christians, Buddhists and other religions are not subject to attacks in the way that Jes and Muslims are, I think its perfectly appropriate that these two religions are given that special consideration.

 

Of course Christians are subjects to attacks - all you have to do is listen to what's being said against Christians.   We know of actual Christian persecutions in Muslim countries.....Muslims targetting Christians for atrocious acts!

 

 

Now we're talking about the  very likelihood of physical violence in Canada.

Especially so when an imam calls for violence to be committed on Christians!  We know who's most likely to follow an imam's call for violence!

Edited March 27, 2017 by betsy

[scribblet]

48 minutes ago, Altai said:

If you dont have prayer room for your own religion, you should say "I want one" instead of "If I dont have one, then others should not have too" This is hostile and leaves an impression on me that you are not interested with freedom of religion.

 

I'm not interested in prayers or religion of any kind in our PUBLIC SECULAR schools...   freedom of religion doesn't include turning our schools into places of worship, it belongs at home or wherever you go to genuflect to your idols.  Not to mention condoning medieval rubbish in our system.

The school they are referencing here is in Toronto, 

https://themuslimtimes.info/2017/01/18/muslim-students-gain-group-prayer-rights-in-canadian-schools/comment-page-1/

In addition, the education director is allowing Muslim students to gather in groups for daily prayers in the schools. At school prayer services, mosque rules apply, meaning genders are segregated and menstruating girls are permitted to watch but not participate.

 

[dialamah]

2 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

Of course Christians are subjects to attacks - all you have to do is listen to what's being said against Christians.   We know of actual Christian persecultions in Muslim countries.

Now we're talking very likelihood of physical violence in Canada.

Especially so when an imam calls for violence to be committed to them!  We know who's most likely to follow an imam's call for violence!

And if you want to be fair you should also object to the various motions against anti-Semitic acts, rather than just focusing on a motion that condemns anti-Islamic actions.   

[Altai]

9 minutes ago, scribblet said:

I'm not interested in prayers or religion of any kind in our PUBLIC SECULAR schools...   freedom of religion doesn't include turning our schools into places of worship, it belongs at home or wherever you go to genuflect to your idols.  Not to mention condoning medieval rubbish in our system.

The school they are referencing here is in Toronto, 

https://themuslimtimes.info/2017/01/18/muslim-students-gain-group-prayer-rights-in-canadian-schools/comment-page-1/

In addition, the education director is allowing Muslim students to gather in groups for daily prayers in the schools. At school prayer services, mosque rules apply, meaning genders are segregated and menstruating girls are permitted to watch but not participate.

 

So you need to understand that its not "your" schools. These schools belongs to all citizens. You cant enforce your ideas on others. You may not be interested with religions but there may be other people interested with it. This looks like to say you feel exposed to discrimination because of you prefer to eat ham burger and others prefer to eat cheese burger.
 

[Goddess]

1 minute ago, Altai said:

So you need to understand that its not "your" schools.

 

 

What part of "Public Schools" don't you understand?

Public = open to all persons, for the community as a whole, the common interest being Education

Schools = Not churches or mosques

 

[DogOnPorch]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Seems to me its the other way around.   

 

Think again...you support this....correct?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_103

That'll start to shut those Islamophobes up.

 

 

[blackbird]

12 hours ago, Charlie said:

 

Ripping Quran apart  is just symbolic, and actually a harmless way of showing anger. (I come from a much more violent place).  So, it's really not a big deal. It just shows the primitive mentality of the people engaged in this act.

On the same note, suggesting to detain and rehabilitate people for attacking a few pieces of paper sounds kind of extreme. 

We are in trouble if a lot of Canadians think it is a crime to tear up a religious book.  Freedom (including freedom to offend) is a tenuous thing and will only exist as long as people are prepared to defend it.  There are a lot of left wing freedom justice warriors in Canada who think nobody should be able to legally "offend" anyone else.  They are on the warpath.  Watch out.

[scribblet]

55 minutes ago, Altai said:

So you need to understand that its not "your" schools. These schools belongs to all citizens. You cant enforce your ideas on others. You may not be interested with religions but there may be other people interested with it. This looks like to say you feel exposed to discrimination because of you prefer to eat ham burger and others prefer to eat cheese burger.
 

So you need to understand that they are my schools too  - that one religion should not enforce their religious/cultural/medieval practices on anyone else.   Pray in private, at home or wherever.   Keep our schools free of religion - they are secular and should remain so. !!!

As an aside, I believe it is discriminatory to publicly fund Catholic Separate schools.

 

[PIK]

21 hours ago, Altai said:

LoL  this is funny, they are figthing each other. 
 

 

Actually it is not funny ,what Islam is doing to this country.

[Altai]

54 minutes ago, scribblet said:

So you need to understand that they are my schools too  - that one religion should not enforce their religious/cultural/medieval practices on anyone else.   Pray in private, at home or wherever.   Keep our schools free of religion - they are secular and should remain so. !!!

As an aside, I believe it is discriminatory to publicly fund Catholic Separate schools.

 

You are not enforced to practice anything, the same way you cant enforce your atheistic/non-religious ideas on others too. We dont have to eat ham burger just because of you like ham burger and you feel been exposed to discrimination when others eat cheese burger. You are free to eat cheese burger but you cant enforce us not to eat cheese burger. 

People can do whatever they want, anytime and anywhere. They are not doing something illegal but what you are trying to do is illegal. You need to get rid of this ownership idea, these schools does not belong to you. They belong to whole citizens and there are citizens with various backgrounds. Another way to solve this problem is to build religious schools for religious people.