Trump and Canada

[betsy]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Sure worked on you didn't it? 

 

The typical liberal deflect-tactic: if you can't come up with a rational rebuttal, make it personal! 

Edited September 2, 2017 by betsy

[eyeball]

Look will stop calling me a liberal. I'm a fascist get it straight.

[taxme]

On 8/31/2017 at 8:38 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Yes...that "person" did so in a fit of rage while hurling expletives and physically manhandling members of Parliament as a sitting prime minister.

Excuse me sir, but the right description for our PM is dictator. Thank you.  Just saying.   

[taxme]

17 hours ago, eyeball said:

Look will stop calling me a liberal. I'm a fascist get it straight.

Yup, that is what liberals are and can be? Liberal and fascist, and some are even communist. Pretty straight or if you are un straight, to me. Just saying.

[taxme]

On 9/1/2017 at 7:47 AM, betsy said:

 

Well, looks like being "presidential" isn't like the stereotyped  cool and polished men anymore .....after all, when  most of these so-called refined "presidential" candidates are stripped of their veneers and all their pretentions- they're nothing more but lying scammers and thieves, who usually have so many skeletons buried in their filthy closets!

 

 

 

21 hours ago, eyeball said:

Sure worked on you didn't it? 

And may have worked plenty of times for you in your past also, eh?  But hey. 

[betsy]

17 minutes ago, taxme said:

 

And may have worked plenty of times for you in your past also, eh?  But hey. 

It still, is,  working on him.....

Edited September 3, 2017 by betsy

[hot enough]

21 hours ago, betsy said:

 

The typical liberal deflect-tactic: if you can't come up with a rational rebuttal, make it personal! 

You have absolutely no sense of shame, betsy. You don't really believe that this is solely a "liberal" thing. 

Edited September 3, 2017 by hot enough

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, taxme said:

Yup, that is what liberals are and can be? Liberal and fascist, and some are even communist.

Yep, just depends on the colour of diapers you right wingers are wearing at the moment. Just saying.

[taxme]

20 hours ago, eyeball said:

Yep, just depends on the colour of diapers you right wingers are wearing at the moment. Just saying.

Speaking about diapers? It is the snowflake leftist liberals who are the ones who always have to wear a diaper. All they ever do is whine and cry like a bunch of crybaby 5 year old children. They always crap themselves when they hear a white nationalist conservative patriot talking about their rights to freedom of speech. Just saying. 

[bush_cheney2004]

Another take on how much more Canada (and Mexico) depend on trade with the United States...same map...same results:

 

Quote

Canada’s Diversification Problem

The greatest immediate concern is our relationship with the United States under their new administration. There’s clearly much at stake — Canada exports more than three times as much to the U.S. than it does to every other country combined. Despite the federal government’s talking points on the importance of NAFTA for the US economy, it ultimately matters much more for us than it does for them.

Canada-US trade is worth roughly one-third of Canada’s GDP, and it approaches close to 50 percent for some provinces (see figure 1). Meanwhile, south of the border, in only two states — Michigan and Vermont — is it worth more than 10 percent, while nationally, it’s only about 3 percent for the United States overall.

 

http://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazines/july-2017/preparing-canada-for-the-changing-global-economy/

 

Quote

 

 

[betsy]

On 11/9/2016 at 9:55 AM, Argus said:

Trudeau or someone is going to have to sit on his people to keep them from making nasty comments to the media. Trump doesn't forget or forgive.

He may not think much of Canada (after all, his priority is the USA).....but he sure thinks somewhat about Trudeau, I bet.  How can he not when Trudeau seems to be trying his best to get to Trump's sore side?

 

I've said it before.....Trudeau's drive-by comment against Trump during the US election (and Trudeau's publicized buddy-buddy relationship with Obama), is going to cost Canada.

Someone should babysit Trudeau.  His recent  bitchy stunt in giving a speech to graduating students in the USA - with his "diversity" speech, which is a stark poke at Trump's policy - at a crucial time of having the NAFTA negotiations - was not only so catty.  It's downright stupid!

 

His ministers and liberal media got all ga-ga over how Trump lavished praises on Trudeau, and him saying "I like that guy."   Now we know how much Trump likes Trudeau.   Trudeau's woes it seems,  mostly generate from Trump - immigration and economy.  

Why, they were all spinning like tops in a flurry of negotiations just a few days ago, and they were optimistic.  They must've been given something to be optimistic about.  That Trudeau wanted to personally meet with Trump.  Who gave Trudeau the bad news?  Pence.

 

Trudeau has been played. 

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

When Trump invoked National Security in slapping tarriffs - he wasn't doing it to US allies and friends.   He was doing it to  liberals/socialists leaders  - RELUCTANT, BITCHY, FORCED ALLIES that they are - that are currently sitting in power.    Trudeau (Canada), isn't a friend of the USA (Trump).

 

Friends don't stab you in speeches......and friends don't treat you like you're stupid that you don't know what's going on. 

 

We're all paying for Mr Big Mouth.  I've said it before......somebody ought to put a zip on it!

 

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by betsy

[SpankyMcFarland]

Defending the Trump team in Canada may get tougher for a while after their many recent remarks about us. Supply management has its flaws but it’s not the worst way of supporting domestic producers. In related news, I see Bernier got the boot yesterday:

https://globalnews.ca/news/4270595/andrew-scheer-removes-maxime-bernier-cabinet/

Doug Ford is showing a bit of shrewdness on this issue. 

[bush_cheney2004]

A history lesson on free trade from Canada:

 

Quote

America is politically divided and suspicious of foreign trade advantages, and the president just gave notice that he would repeal a successful trade agreement with his northern neighbour.

The year is 1865.

How Canada reacted to our first trade war with the United States offers a practical lesson for today. Unfortunately, it's not one that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is likely to follow.

Back in 1865, the worst came to pass when President Abraham Lincoln abrogated the Canadian-American Reciprocity Treaty, an agreement that had seen cross-border trade double in the decade since it was signed. The reasons ranged from American resentment over tariffs Canada had imposed on manufactured goods in 1858, to retribution for British support for the Confederacy during the Civil War. The result was there would not be another bilateral free trade agreement between the two countries until 1988.

... The immediate consequence for Canada was the most important: Confederation. The Fathers of Confederation had learned a hard lesson about the unreliability of international diplomacy and resolved that, if they could not rely on their neighbours, they would at least guarantee Canadian businesses access to the widest possible markets within a new, united country.

...So why isn't Trudeau even talking about it as part of a national response to Donald Trump's belligerence?

The reasons are, depressingly, similar to why we are having trouble renegotiating NAFTA. It turns out interprovincial trade is not so different from international trade, shrunk to fit our domestic divisions. Within their provincial bailiwicks, our premiers are pint-sized Trumps and Trudeaus, simultaneously demanding fairness from their neighbours and special protections for their own industries.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/trudeau-trump-tariffs-1.4703521

 

 

Edited June 13, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

I agree that Canada alone is a relatively small piece of U.S. GDP, but the collective value of all countries against which Trump has imposed tariffs is significant.  Canada is best positioned working collectively.  The EU and other major trading partners should stick to their countermeasures.  We can expand trade with each other, freeze out the U.S., and develop a healthier trade balance that makes Canada less dependent on the U.S..  This is an opportunity, especially in terms of energy.  Canada should nationalize as much of the oil sands as possible in the fashion of Norway.  The EU should also be firm with its latest populist xenophobe leader, Italy's Guiseppe Conte.  The same dark forces that hatched in Eastern Europe are at play in Italy.  If opposition is silent, more such characters will feel empowered.  

[turningrite]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

I agree that Canada alone is a relatively small piece of U.S. GDP, but the collective value of all countries against which Trump has imposed tariffs is significant.  Canada is best positioned working collectively.  The EU and other major trading partners should stick to their countermeasures.  We can expand trade with each other, freeze out the U.S., and develop a healthier trade balance that makes Canada less dependent on the U.S..  This is an opportunity, especially in terms of energy.  Canada should nationalize as much of the oil sands as possible in the fashion of Norway.  The EU should also be firm with its latest populist xenophobe leader, Italy's Guiseppe Conte.  The same dark forces that hatched in Eastern Europe are at play in Italy.  If opposition is silent, more such characters will feel empowered.  

The American economy is potentially much more self-sufficient than is Canada's. Our prosperity has always been based on exporting commodities and the U.S. has for much of our history been seen as the only "natural" market for much that we produce. We've made efforts to expand trade in the past without achieving much independence from our reliance on the American market. In recent years, we've expanded trade with China but have had to face the reality that what China mainly wants from us are natural resources and some agricultural products, thus reinforcing our commodities dependent economic model. And I'm not sure what good it would do us to nationalize the oil sands when the importance of this commodity (oil) is likely to decrease over the next couple generations? Finally, Italy's new government was elected based in large measure on concerns about out of control migration as well as unrest about the role of the EU (hey Brexit!). The supposedly dark forces in play are a response to concerns that have emerged over a significant period of time. Perhaps some solutions can be considered now that the traditional governing parties, which didn't act, aren't in charge. That's what democracy is about.

Edited June 15, 2018 by turningrite

[bush_cheney2004]

Trump's impact on Canada continues to increase....Canadian capital for energy projects is leaving for the USA....fast as it can:

 

Quote

A trickle of Canadian oil-drilling rigs heading south of the border this year has turned into a steady stream – a movement of equipment the energy industry says it hasn’t seen in decades.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/alberta/article-canadian-oil-drilling-companies-moving-rigs-south-amid-us-rebound/

 

Hate Trump and the USA...but love the U.S. economy !

 

[Machjo]

I hate to say it, but but a part of me hopes it becomes a very hot trade war. It may seriously damage the Canadian economy in the short term, but it might be just what we need to break the back of Canada's agricultural cartels.

 

Another part of me fears that this could also backfire in unexpected ways. However much I favour unilateral free trade, I also recognize that should Trump be the direct cause of breaking Canada's agricultural cartels for example, Canadians may hold that resentment for decades to come. We might end up with more free trade with the US like the US wants, but we'd also end up more conscious of the US' economic power and its willingness to use it to strong-arm us into submission. This could have long-term ramifications in Canada's willingness to back the US in future military endeavours and perhaps many other fields of cooperation, economic or otherwise.

 

However much I oppose Canadian protectionism, it would prove much healthier for future Canada-US relations for Canada to choose to freely and willingly abandon its protectionism than to be humiliated on the world stage as the US beats it down into submission. If that's how Canada turns to freer trade, Canadian voters and governments will remember it for decades to come. Worse yet, other countries in Europe, Asia, and South America will also take note of the US' treatment of Canada and so distance themselves from the US too.

 

Trump is playing a very dangerous game over the long term by directly attacking Canadians' national pride. For crying out loud, he's accomplished what few have accomplished before: united Parliamentary support for an unpopular Prime Minister against Trump.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Machjo

[Zeitgeist]

In times of trouble, Canada has demonstrated the capacity to rally and mobilize, whether in support of post-hurricane Haiti, the Indian Ocean Tsunami, or war preparation and munitions production during the world wars.  The same will be the case in a trade war.  The U.S. is a far more polarized country than Canada these days.  The only tool the U.S. currently has to support foreign policy is hard power.  Its moral authority is seriously compromised.  Hard power alone might be sufficient in a unipolar world with one superpower, but the reality is that the EU is a larger economy than the U.S., with all the hard power it needs.  China will surpass the U.S. in economic might and perhaps even both military might and moral authority very soon.  We are witnessing a spoiled rich kid's meltdown over the fact that no one is buying his declining empire's shine anymore, because the narrative he is selling is about U.S. supremacy at the expense of everyone else.  There is a through-line with Trudeau's approach that does have international currency, his dad's idea of the "just society."  A just society seeks justice for all, inside and beyond borders.  While it's an ideal that may not be fully realizable, whether I'm a citizen of a sub-Saharan economically depressed country or a citizen of a middle power Asian or European country, I'm going to support a plan that maximizes my country's development and equity in relation to more powerful countries.  If Trump thinks that his trade war plan will create even a few thousand additional jobs for U.S. workers (it won't and it could seriously hurt American workers), and does so at the expense of millions of workers around the world, how will he be seen as a leader internationally?  Hitler built a great highway system and added some industry.  He provided industrialists and farmers with slave labour.  He put Germany first. 

There's a lot of whining on here about liberals and progressives, but I promise you that many of Canada and Europe's most conservative politicians would quickly get on board with an anti-Trump movement if his trade measures impact local communities.  At that point, look out, because this isn't the 19th century.  Trade between non-U.S. territories could expand on a massive scale.  Canada can manufacture anything the U.S. can when necessary.  Even southern U.S. agricultural products can be obtained cheaply from many other countries.  Our greenhouse and gm tech have made it possible to grow most crops year-round.  We're quite capable of building Harleys.  We'll drink Newfoundland Screech instead of Wild Turkey Bourbon.  If you don't think Canadians and the citizens of many other countries will take careful note of the origins of products in a trade war, you're in for a surprise.    

Edited June 16, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[paxamericana]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

China will surpass the U.S. in economic might and perhaps even both military might and moral authority very soon.

Giggles, good luck with the moral part. good luck with the authoritarians. Look at what they did to their neighboring countries, coerced them in to economic and political slavery.

You need to look at economics not as just raw GDP but GDP per capita. They might have higher Over all GDP because they have four times the people but their GDP per capita tells the real story. Their people are not as efficient. 

[paxamericana]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

There is a through-line with Trudeau's approach that does have international currency, his dad's idea of the "just society."  A just society seeks justice for all, inside and beyond borders.  While it's an ideal that may not be fully realizable, whether I'm a citizen of a sub-Saharan economically depressed country or a citizen of a middle power Asian or European country, I'm going to support a plan that maximizes my country's development and equity in relation to more powerful countries. 

Your moral high ground is still going to need a strong back bone call America.  Without security you will get none of those ideals,history has shown this,  look at what happened to Athens. 

[paxamericana]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

There's a lot of whining on here about liberals and progressives, but I promise you that many of Canada and Europe's most conservative politicians would quickly get on board with an anti-Trump movement if his trade measures impact local communities.  At that point, look out, because this isn't the 19th century.  Trade between non-U.S. territories could expand on a massive scale.  Canada can manufacture anything the U.S. can when necessary.  Even southern U.S. agricultural products can be obtained cheaply from many other countries.  Our greenhouse and gm tech have made it possible to grow most crops year-round.  We're quite capable of building Harleys.  We'll drink Newfoundland Screech instead of Wild Turkey Bourbon.  If you don't think Canadians and the citizens of many other countries will take careful note of the origins of products in a trade war, you're in for a surprise.    

Oh we know, we're just betting that trade will be done by robots in the future and all manufactured goods will be automated. That's why we've invested so heavily in our service and high tech industry....kind of like what china is trying to copy....oh wait.... We already thought of the end game good luck trying to compete. We have the best research funding and scientific ideas in the world, look at all the technical and scientific data that the US has contributed to the world. You're going to have to do a lot better in milk production to think you'll displace America's hegemony. So get on board Canada, it's not a matter of choice it's a matter of survival. All for your own good really. If you want to see evidence of what i'm saying take a look at australia and new zealand. They have litterally went the opposite way and reverted to agriculture because they lack the competitive edge to have higher tech industry. Canada will turn into this unless you sign those free trade agreement. 

 

Edited June 16, 2018 by paxrom

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

In times of trouble, Canada has demonstrated the capacity to rally and mobilize, whether in support of post-hurricane Haiti, the Indian Ocean Tsunami, or war preparation and munitions production during the world wars.  The same will be the case in a trade war.  The U.S. is a far more polarized country than Canada these days.  The only tool the U.S. currently has to support foreign policy is hard power.  Its moral authority is seriously compromised. 

 

Sure...Canada demonstrated this capacity by planning and executing the overthrow of Haiti's democratically elected president in 2004 with the U.S. and France.   Lots more "moral authority" was in play when Canada bombed Iraq, Serbia, and Libya...with NATO.

The U.S. has plenty more than just hard power....the U.S. dollar is the world's reserve currency....Canada's dollar has become the peso.   The U.S. has the largest IMF voting block at 18%.   The U.S. leads the world in R&D investment...Canada lags far behind many other nations.   Canada's "brain drain" is mostly to the United States.

The U.S. has more landed immigrants from around the world than any other nation...20% of the total...no other nation comes close.  Immigrants are still trying to get into the USA, regardless of Trump.

The Canadian economy and culture is dominated by America...a choice that Canadians have made long ago.

So enjoy our latest president, just like all the rest.   Canada gets no say in the matter.

 

 

[paxamericana]

18 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

So enjoy our latest president, just like all the rest.   Canada gets no say in the matter.

Savage! I think I need to play the peace maker with these anti americans americans i uh mean canadians and european. 

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, paxrom said:

Savage! I think I need to play the peace maker with these anti americans americans i uh mean canadians and european. 

 

It's all good....the same 'murican haters will be watching American TV programming and films, and using American social media (Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, SnapChat, YouTube, and Google).    Hating America helps to define the Canadian identity....which starts with NOT being American.

Many Canadians still support the U.S. with their feet and wallets....not all Canadians hate "'murica".

Edited June 16, 2018 by bush_cheney2004