Female Chess players required to wear Hijabs in Iran

BC_chick · September 30, 2016

And you support the view of this fabricated Iranian?

Do you propose that Dress Codes be done away with altogether in Western Nations. If so, SWEET!!! I really want to wear shorts and Sandals to work.

I went through this with you before, I agree with dress codes, but I don't find high heels and cleavage to be reasonable dress codes for that job.

I have similar views about Iran, women should not have to wear a scarf on their head. Women should have choice in what they are comfortable with.

You're the one with the inconsistent views where servers can go take lower paying jobs if they're uncomfortable with the forced attire but master chess players shouldn't have to compete in lower level tournaments if they're uncomfortable with what they're required to wear.

Boges · September 30, 2016

You're the one with the inconsistent views where servers can go take lower paying jobs if they're uncomfortable with the forced attire but master chess players shouldn't have to compete in lower level tournaments if they're uncomfortable with what they're required to wear.

This is the World Championship. We can agree that both are discriminatory.

I think in the thread it was agreed that establishments where sexuality was being peddled, those types of dress requirements are appropriate. Strip Clubs, Hooters and the Tilted Kilts for example.

I think much like the women in this thread are threatening to boycott, a woman who doesn't think their dress code is appropriate can appeal to management.

I guess the difference is that attire was never a requirement to play chess, where I suspect, the attire required was made clear up front when a woman applies to that job at an upscale restaurant.

BC_chick · September 30, 2016

I guess the difference is that attire was never a requirement to play chess, where I suspect, the attire required was made clear up front when a woman applies to that job at an upscale restaurant.

I guess I'm being a bit more idealistic... I don't think sexist attires should be required of women - upfront or not - in either place.

Thanks for the discussion Boges, that was fun.

Edited September 30, 2016 by BC_chick

?Impact · October 1, 2016

Ontario does not discriminate based on sex, women can go topless in public. There are however many places in the world, including Canada where discrimination based on sex is standard.

Hal 9000 · October 1, 2016

Women chess players should go to Iran and do as Iranian men tell them - plain and simple.

-TSS- · October 1, 2016

I've seen some photos of Iran in the 70's. They were magnificent! Nothing short of any Western-European country.

cybercoma · October 3, 2016

Then the US began meddling in their affairs.

DogOnPorch · October 3, 2016

Then the US began meddling in their affairs.

The 'new history'.

eyeball · October 3, 2016

Only to you.

Argus · October 4, 2016

Well, St. Ambrose did say "When I am in Rome I fast on a Saturday, when I am in Milan I do not...." [or you may know this as "when in Rome, do as the Romans."]

Don't like Iran's customs then easy - don't go to the country.

Of course, that doesn't apply to white countries. For if they held a chess tournament in France and they banned the hijab you'd be up in arms.

msj · October 4, 2016

Of course, that doesn't apply to white countries. For if they held a chess tournament in France and they banned the hijab you'd be up in arms.

Of course France could do this.

And it is such a trivial thing I think they have a right to do it even if I think it is a stupid thing to do.

[Having said that, I do recall recently some high level political talks were cancelled because the Iranians were demanding that no wine be served. The French said "non" apparently]

I also disagree with Iran forcing women to wear ninja PJs.

Would I like Nazi Paikidze (hey, tricky name) to have the Chess tournament moved elsewhere?

Sure, fine with me. Make the political point. Ensure that Iranian women will not be able to participate to where ever the event is moved to etc etc over something that is nothing more than a trivial irritant.

I think women's rights in Iran would be better advanced by attending the event in Iran. Show that women belong at a chess tournament and make the point that forcing women to wear ninja PJs is stupid.

During her free time Nazi could get some pictures of herself without the head scarf on.

Then, once she is back home she could post those pictures to social media and show herself both as the competitor that she is and for her subtle ways at defying stupidity.

I think that would be more effective for all involved but that's just my opinion.

kimmy · October 5, 2016

Would I like Nazi Paikidze (hey, tricky name) to have the Chess tournament moved elsewhere?

Sure, fine with me. Make the political point. Ensure that Iranian women will not be able to participate to where ever the event is moved to etc etc over something that is nothing more than a trivial irritant.

I think women's rights in Iran would be better advanced by attending the event in Iran. Show that women belong at a chess tournament and make the point that forcing women to wear ninja PJs is stupid.

During her free time Nazi could get some pictures of herself without the head scarf on.

"Nazi" has to be one of the most unfortunate given names I've heard of. I'm not sure she's demanding it be moved, she's simply stating that she's not going to attend.

I can see both arguments.

On the one hand, Nazi feels mandatory hijab is demeaning to women, and I agree, and I think I would make the same choice in her situation. Which isn't a big concern. Because I suck at chess.

On the other hand, some people make the argument that women boycotting the tournament primarily hurts Iranian women. Iran apparently has some highly-ranked female chess players who feel that having the tournament in Iran would let them show Iran that women can do things beyond cooking and cleaning. They feel that the tournament would be good for the status of women in Iran, and feel that women who are boycotting the tournament are punishing them for something that isn't even their fault.

I can see that side of it as well. But I think if I were in that situation, I would make the same choice as Nazi Paikidze.

-k

msj · October 5, 2016

"Nazi" has to be one of the most unfortunate given names I've heard of. I'm not sure she's demanding it be moved, she's simply stating that she's not going to attend.

-k

Well she has a petition found here: https://www.change.org/p/stop-women-s-oppression-at-the-world-chess-championship-by-challenging-fide-s-decision

Basically either hold it elsewhere or only allow it in Iran as long as women don't have to wear ninja pjs.

A reasonable thing for her to do. Even if she goes by Nazi!

Smoke · October 5, 2016

Then the US began meddling in their affairs.

Yep it was those pesky Americans that are putting women in their place over in Iran. Do you ever reflect back on the crap you post?

cybercoma · October 5, 2016

Do you have the remotest idea of why Iran is so anti-American? What I'm posting is crap to you because I'm guessing you're entirely clueless.

Moonlight Graham · October 5, 2016

In Canada dressing a certain way isn't necessary.

When in Iran it is.

The hijabs are basically for sexual modesty. Going to Iran and women being forced to wear a head scarf is virtually identical with some topless African women being forced to wear shirts when they come to visit Canada. Most Muslims societies are just more modest than we are. For us, nipples and vaginas and penises are where we draw the line legally, for them it might be elbows, ankles, and hair. Sometimes they're more extreme, like everything but the eyes, or even burkas where everything has to be covered. 100 years ago in the West a belly button or a thigh exposed or cleavage might be scandalous.

In 200 years societies might consider us barbarians for not allowing women to freely exposed their breasts aka what nature gave them, and that women were socially pressured into wearing bras.

WestCoastRunner · October 5, 2016

Is this the type of tolerance we are striving for in Canada?

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/female-chess-players-threaten-boycott-after-being-told-to-wear-hijabs-at-world-championship-in-iran

I think people are naive to believe that women that do wear the Hijab in the west do so because they want to and not because they are forced to by misogynistic cultural practices.

It's naive to think they are all forced to wear them in Canada.

I would have no problem wearing one if it allowed me to compete.

kimmy · October 6, 2016

It's naive to think they are all forced to wear them in Canada.

Certainly many Canadian women wear it by choice. But it would also be naive to assume all wear it by choice.

I would have no problem wearing one if it allowed me to compete.

And you're free to make that choice. Lots of women aren't, which is why I support Nazi Paikidze's position.

-k

Smoke · October 6, 2016

Do you have the remotest idea of why Iran is so anti-American? What I'm posting is crap to you because I'm guessing you're entirely clueless.

Duh OK Mr. Einstein....I gess yu er the smartist. :wacko:

kimmy · October 6, 2016

I think what he is trying to point out is that women didn't used to wear veils in Iran, until dissatisfaction with the corrupt US-backed regime made conditions ripe for the revolution that led to the takeover of the country by religious fanatics. But I might be mistaken.

-k

Bonam · October 6, 2016

I think what he is trying to point out is that women didn't used to wear veils in Iran, until dissatisfaction with the corrupt US-backed regime made conditions ripe for the revolution that led to the takeover of the country by religious fanatics. But I might be mistaken.

-k

Women wore veils in Iran on and off throughout history commensurately with the relative influence of religion vs secular/pragmatic government, which has undergone various changes over the course of human history as it has undergone conflicts both internal and external. There was nothing special about the US intervention in Iran... it's something that hundreds of nations throughout history have done to hundreds of other nations, thousands of times. In the end, while external factors have influences, the final place to look for the why of how a certain nation's culture is is that nation's people and leaders.

BC_chick · October 6, 2016

Iran had a thriving economy and was on the verge of nationalizing its oil when the US-British backed coup resulted in the Shah who was a dictator who tortured and killed people.

The religious takeover was essentially a fraud. The mullahs were not supposed to be anything but religious symbol and asked after the revolution if Khomeini was regretful that he lied to the people, and he said no, he did it in the name of Islam (Taqiya). The oppression that ensued is history.

External factors played a much bigger role than you're willing to admit. Their anger at the western nations that instilled the Shah created the perfect breeding ground for the Mullah's takeover.

It's also unfair to say that it's ultimately their culture that makes the country what it is. Many are risking their lives every day to bring change.

Edited October 6, 2016 by BC_chick

DogOnPorch · October 6, 2016

Western Nations didn't 'instilled the Shah'. That at would be the Soviet Union...you know, the country y'all give a pass to.

?Impact · October 7, 2016

Western Nations didn't 'instilled the Shah'. That at would be the Soviet Union...you know, the country y'all give a pass to.

Not sure where you get that from. His father abdicated the throne to him when the British & Soviets both invaded in a joint operation. His position was accepted, but there was also an elected government which the British and Americans overthrew later.

DogOnPorch · October 7, 2016

Not sure where you get that from. His father abdicated the throne to him when the British & Soviets both invaded in a joint operation. His position was accepted, but there was also an elected government which the British and Americans overthrew later.

The Shah's father played footsies with the Nazis...catching Stalin's attention. As Barbarossa unfolded, he took no chances and made moves to take Iran and its oil fields...catching Churchill's attention who immediately decided to 'assist' Stalin by seizing the oil fields himself from the south. The Persian Corridor resulted.

The young Shah...much more friendly to the Allied cause, was 'installed' by Stalin who would suffer no enemies on his flanks. The Lend Lease flowed from there...unless you want to start denying that, too.

What the CIA did was provide a very large amount of money and a large cargo aircraft for the Shah in 1953 so Mossadeq couldn't arrest him out-of-hand. The money bribed any Iranian Army officer that 'resisted'. Most of Mossadeq's support relied upon the Communist Tudeh Party which turned on him mid-coup pretty much sealing the deal. Their bid to have Iran join the Soviet Union in 1946 hadn't worked so they thought 1953 might provide another opportunity with the death of Stalin. No Soviet assistance arrived this time...