Accommodating male/female segregation for Muslims?

[cybercoma]

Fair enough. If they're in such a fragile emotional state that they are incapable of adapting to unfamiliar surroundings, they may be doing themselves a disservice by seeking out and enrolling their kids in a program in which they know there will be co-ed swimming.

Small steps. Swimming classes are also a safety measure for kids that will be around pools in their neighbourhoods.

[bush_cheney2004]

Your sensitivities to references to anything American is duly noted, yet again, and disregarded because nobody cares that it bothers you.

Historical sexism, racism, and segregation in Canada is not hard to find. But I understand the need to reach across the border instead, as this is the normal language and method for many Canadians. It is as if any topic lacks gravitas and significance unless an American reference can be made.

Segregating Muslims at Canadian swimming pools (and beaches ?) begs for this usual approach....domestic history be damned.

Edited August 23, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest]

So you're running a university swimming class for kids and some Muslim parents come to you and say they want to enroll their kids but your class is immoral and has to be separated by gender. Do you tell them they're out of luck or do you smile and say "okay"?

I don't understand your quarrel here. If the pool or class is able to accommodate and run gender specific classes why would you care? Nobody loses. If they don't have the space or time to accommodate the pool or University explains this and the Muslim families can choose not to enroll in the class. My local community centre has offered gender specific swim times for a long time.

[Spiderfish]

I don't understand your quarrel here. If the pool or class is able to accommodate and run gender specific classes why would you care? Nobody loses. If they don't have the space or time to accommodate the pool or University explains this and the Muslim families can choose not to enroll in the class. My local community centre has offered gender specific swim times for a long time.

This change wasn't implemented in addition to the existing program, it was brought in as a change to the existing program. The parents who had their kids in the existing program were not even notified. One of the parents said in a radio interview that they found out about this after their kid came home and asked why they weren't allowed to swim with their friends anymore. They said their kid was upset and wondered if they did something wrong.

I disagree with your assessment that nobody loses. The kids who want to swim with their friends but are no longer allowed to would probably disagree with your opinion.

[Spiderfish]

Small steps. Swimming classes are also a safety measure for kids that will be around pools in their neighbourhoods.

Are we going to start segregating neighborhood swimming pools as well? If not then they probably have nothing to worry about since the kids won't swim in a co-ed pool.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Spiderfish

[Guest]

This change wasn't implemented in addition to the existing program, it was brought in as a change to the existing program. The parents who had their kids in the existing program were not even notified. One of the parents said in a radio interview that they found out about this after their kid came home and asked why they weren't allowed to swim with their friends anymore. They said their kid was upset and wondered if they did something wrong.

I disagree with your assessment that nobody loses. The kids who want to swim with their friends but are no longer allowed to would probably disagree with your opinion.

Program schedules and formats change all the time. A program configuration that allows more people to swim sounds like a superior solution to the status quo; even if the class list for one session had to be altered. The line about kids wondering if they did something wrong is likely BS but could have easily been handled by a 1 min explanation from a parent. However, when parents are opposed to Islam in the first place and see everything in terms of US vs THEM, we end up with people fabricating issues out of non-issues like this.

[Spiderfish]

Program schedules and formats change all the time.

Typically not to accommodate someone's religion, however.

The line about kids wondering if they did something wrong is likely BS but could have easily been handled by a 1 min explanation from a parent.

If the parent had been made aware of the change, which they weren't.

However, when parents are opposed to Islam in the first place and see everything in terms of US vs THEM, we end up with people fabricating issues out of non-issues like this.

This is a pretty bold assumption and implication of intolerance on your part. Just because people don't want to change established programs and segregate kids to accommodate someone's religion under the bogus pretense of supporting diversity does not make them opposed to it. What about accommodating inclusion? Diversity cannot be achieved through exclusion and segregation, frankly I'm surprised in this day and age that a university doesn't understand this.

[Argus]

I partly agree. If it doesn't impact existing programs, I don't see why we can't accommodate those who wish to be segregated, as long as it doesn't impact those who don't.

What if they didn't want their kids to be in the same pool with Jews or Blacks? Should we accommodate them in that too?

And if not why are we accommodating them in this? Why are we reassuring them that their religious bigotry towards women is acceptable here and won't be dismissed as the ravings of ignorant, religious fanatics?

Because that would be how it would be described if these were fundamentalist Christians.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Argus

[Argus]

So let them come, dress however they want, engage in their personal beliefs and practices that are within our laws and let them gradually accept a more equal and free culture.

Except that doesn't work when their numbers are such they can simply avoid anything in our society which conflicts with their backward social views, while persuading us to accommodate those they would not otherwise be able to avoid. The second generation of Muslims in Canada is not more secular than their parents, it is LESS. There is absolutely no reason to believe the third will be less either, especially as their numbers grow.

[Argus]

Program schedules and formats change all the time. A program configuration that allows more people to swim sounds like a superior solution to the status quo; e

That's twice in one day a 'progressive' has protested that it's not a problem because this was an addition to an existing program, and then when it's pointed out that no, this was a substitution for the existing one simply say, well, that doesn't matter either.

I think progressives will accept anything in the name of accommodating a visible minority. If this spreads, and all boys and girls are eventually segregated in other things, even in regular classes in public schools, the progressives not only won't fight it but will fight viciously against anyone who objects, calling them evil racists and bigots they hope will soon die.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Argus

[eyeball]

The second generation of Muslims in Canada is not more secular than their parents, it is LESS. There is absolutely no reason to believe the third will be less either, especially as their numbers grow.

Has any other immigrant wave in history had to endure the level of denigration Muslims are being subjected to, especially as their numbers grow?

I don't expect an answer from Argus but maybe someone less biased knows.

Edited August 24, 2016 by eyeball

[cybercoma]

Has any other immigrant wave in history had to endure the level of denigration Muslims are being subjected to, especially as their numbers grow?

I don't expect an answer from Argus but maybe someone less biased knows.

The Irish.

[eyeball]

What did the part of me that's Irish do to deserve that I wonder?

[Spiderfish]

What if they didn't want their kids to be in the same pool with Jews or Blacks? Should we accommodate them in that too?

And if not why are we accommodating them in this? Why are we reassuring them that their religious bigotry towards women is acceptable here and won't be dismissed as the ravings of ignorant, religious fanatics?

Because that would be how it would be described if these were fundamentalist Christians.

But they aren't saying they don't want their kids to swim with whites or blacks or Jews or Christians or whatever. They're requesting that gender be separated, including their own kids. I'm not saying it's ideal, but if they wanted to segregate their own group from everyone else rather than insist on everyone else changing to suit their needs it does seem to solve the problem.

I also would not have a problem if a Christian group decided they wanted their own swimming program and the host was willing to oblige, as long as the regular program wasn't affected.

[DogOnPorch]

Interesting to see women's rights being tossed around like a football.

[Big Guy]

IN CANADA

The Mounties have adopted a new uniform policy to allow female Muslim officers to wear the hijab. Scott Bardsley, spokesman for Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale, confirmed that RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson recently approved an addition to the uniform policy to allow women officers to wear the head scarf "if they so choose."

"The Royal Canadian Mounted Police is a progressive and inclusive police service that values and respects persons of all cultural and religious backgrounds," Bardsley said in an email.

RCMP Hijab

IN FRANCE

Get 'em off! Armed police order Muslim woman to remove her burkini on packed Nice beach - as mother, 34, wearing Islamic headscarf is threatened with pepper spray and fined in Cannes.

Burkini Bust

Thank God I live in Canada!!!!!

[WestCoastRunner]

IN CANADA

The Mounties have adopted a new uniform policy to allow female Muslim officers to wear the hijab. Scott Bardsley, spokesman for Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale, confirmed that RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson recently approved an addition to the uniform policy to allow women officers to wear the head scarf "if they so choose."

"The Royal Canadian Mounted Police is a progressive and inclusive police service that values and respects persons of all cultural and religious backgrounds," Bardsley said in an email.

RCMP Hijab

IN FRANCE

Get 'em off! Armed police order Muslim woman to remove her burkini on packed Nice beach - as mother, 34, wearing Islamic headscarf is threatened with pepper spray and fined in Cannes.

Burkini Bust

Thank God I live in Canada!!!!!

Thank god Canada supports the Paralympic athletes.

[Big Guy]

Thank god Canada supports the Paralympic athletes.

Interesting opinion but what does that have to do with accommodating male/female segregation for Muslims?

[GostHacked]

IN CANADA

The Mounties have adopted a new uniform policy to allow female Muslim officers to wear the hijab. Scott Bardsley, spokesman for Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale, confirmed that RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson recently approved an addition to the uniform policy to allow women officers to wear the head scarf "if they so choose."

I am for equality, but this is a long standing tradition that when you become a Mountie you wear the HAT. Sure wear the Hijab UNDER the hat, but you still need to wear the hat, or you don't really want to embrace being a Mounti 100%.

I am 100% against allowing her to wear it while on duty.

[Guest]

I am for equality, but this is a long standing tradition that when you become a Mountie you wear the HAT. Sure wear the Hijab UNDER the hat, but you still need to wear the hat, or you don't really want to embrace being a Mounti 100%.

I am 100% against allowing her to wear it while on duty.

Your hat comments sound absolutely crazy to me. Thankfully, our national police force isn't hung up about head coverings.

[Argus]

Interesting opinion but what does that have to do with accommodating male/female segregation for Muslims?

Nothing. Nor did your last post.

Your hat comments sound absolutely crazy to me. Thankfully, our national police force isn't hung up about head coverings.

Or the quality of their applicants.

[?Impact]

The Mounties have adopted a new uniform policy to allow female Muslim officers to wear the hijab. Scott Bardsley, spokesman for Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale, confirmed that RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson recently approved an addition to the uniform policy to allow women officers to wear the head scarf "if they so choose."

As long as the hijab is there to serve its purpose of covering the hair only, and not as a fashion statement. Did they qualify that it must be plain black, or possibly some colour to complement the uniform?

[taxme]

We already have "reasonable accommodation" in single gender schools in Canada - for resident Canadians. We have many boys only or girls only schools so what is the big deal with segregating by sex for swimming?

http://www.canadianfamily.ca/kids/baby/sexed-education/

This has nothing to do with the kids making a decision. Throw a bunch of kids into a swimming pool in the summer and they will play with each other and have fun. This has to do with accommodating the parents religious wishes, it's the enforcement of perceived diversity through exclusion by the university.

Maybe we should have all the kids recite the lord's prayer at the beginning of each day as well before going off to play.

A practice of reading the Lord's prayer many decades ago was quite acceptable as Canada was mainly a Christian country. That changed after we started to flood Canada with numerous other religions and cultures, and from what we were told it had to cease as this would offend other religions who were not of the Christian faith. Aw well, to darn bad for them. Life sucks at times. I guess no one bothered to tell them that they are now living in Canada, and this is the way things are done here. You don't like it then leave the country. Canada has become one big suck for the rest of the world to suck off. Canadians will do whatever they can to please the rest of the world and their values. Canadian values and morals and principles be dammed. Sad indeed.

Edited August 25, 2016 by taxme

[Big Guy]

While I believe in full accommodation as part of the spirit of this great country, I disagree with the decision on hijabs for Mounties - as I did years ago with turbans for Mounties. The Mounties, like any law enforcement force, are there to minimize conflict and protect people from each other and themselves. The stupidity and hate that I see from our resident racists would only be increased if they had to take instruction from someone who is obviously "not one of them".

These racists have enough problems of controlling themselves without the added temptation of having to follow orders from "one of them" just because they wear the uniform.

While I would enjoy watching one of these racists smacked down by a hijab wearing Mountie because of their refusal to "follow orders" I do fear for those in the vicinity who may get caught in the process of a racist getting his/her due.

[cybercoma]

While I believe in full accommodation as part of the spirit of this great country, I disagree with the decision on hijabs for Mounties - as I did years ago with turbans for Mounties.

The Supreme Court has determined that your opinion is unreasonable.