Army Guy Posted July 13, 2016 Report Posted July 13, 2016 Well, isn't that what the United Nations is there for? After all, don't we give them some of our tax dollars to protect our rights and will protect and settle any disputes over land rights? So, belonging to NATO will save us then, eh? I think that NATO would probably instead say to Canada that you are on your own, we don't want a war with Russia. A bloody stupid thing to do for sure. So, what can Canada do anyway if Russia did just that? We would send some of our few broken down military equipment and go fight them with our few soldiers? We would not last an hour fighting with the Russians. Canada is an insignificant and a broken down country that could not fight it's way out of a wet paper bag if it had too. We basically are a gang of insignificant losers. And believe me that I hate having to say that but it is so true. The only thing Canada seems to be good for is flooding the country with refugees and third world immigrants from the rest of the world who only come here to take advantage of our generous social and medical services. We Canadians are such suckers for the rest of the world and they all know it too. Just my opinion of course. I could give you a long list of countries that would disagree with your UN statement entirely but you could start with the state once called Yugoslavia, ask them how their rights were protected, during that conflict, as UN soldiers watch them cleanse entire villages, cities, helpless to stop them..... NATO is a defensive agreement signed by dozens of countries, meant to counter soviet aggression, so the answer to your question is yes, NATO would come to the aid of any country that signed on to that agreement, even if it meant going to wqar with mother Russia. If the state of our military bothers you so much, then why are you so good with it, is it the tax dollars spent, is it your afraid of our military, what is the reason you oppose it so much ? Regardless of the state of our military, our government will send it to defend this nation regardless, and those young men and women will pay for that decision with their lives....Something most Canadians are willing to live with....until it is their sons and daughters that will answer the call, wonder if they would change their tone then....when it is to late....when they are attending the funeral service for a love one.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
SpankyMcFarland Posted July 13, 2016 Report Posted July 13, 2016 Although less powerful, Putinist Russia is more unpredictable than the old Soviet Union because there are no mechanisms for an orderly succession and there's no knowing what Putin would do to save his neck. We need to pull our weight in NATO and increase military spending. Quote
Big Guy Posted July 13, 2016 Author Report Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) So if Latvia decided to send a battalion on to Russian land in a "pre-emptive" defensive maneuver then Canada would go to war against Russia? Which NATO country was attacked by ISIS to force NATO into the conflict? Edited July 13, 2016 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Wilber Posted July 14, 2016 Report Posted July 14, 2016 Turkey Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Big Guy Posted July 14, 2016 Author Report Posted July 14, 2016 Turkey When did ISIS invade Turkey? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
-1=e^ipi Posted July 14, 2016 Report Posted July 14, 2016 Canada has what, the 6th largest defense budget in Nato? I doubt anyone is going to want us to leave. I want Canada to leave. Quote
eyeball Posted July 14, 2016 Report Posted July 14, 2016 Ditto that. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
dre Posted July 14, 2016 Report Posted July 14, 2016 I want Canada to leave. I do too. Not because I don't believe in the concept of collective defense, but the reality is that the Americans will be the ones we look to for help if we ever face a real military threat. So we should try to build a stronger defense pact with the US, and just have political and commercial relationships with other allies. That doesn't mean we wouldn't have a military it just means that it might look a bit different, and we wouldn't have to participate in missions on other continents unless we really wanted to. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Army Guy Posted July 14, 2016 Report Posted July 14, 2016 When did ISIS invade Turkey? Have you been watching the news lately, ISIS has made claims for several bombings in Turkey. And yet what are we as a nation suppose to do with groups like ISIS, do we turn our heads and claim it is just a regional problem, and yet this regional problem effects us in several ways, in the wallet as it influences markets, global prices of oil, and trade within that region....do we just shrug our shoulders and ride out the storm....and what do we do with all those refugees, the other effects of war, do we continue to pay out for other effects of war and continue our lives if nothing has happened. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Big Guy Posted July 14, 2016 Author Report Posted July 14, 2016 Have you been watching the news lately, ISIS has made claims for several bombings in Turkey. And yet what are we as a nation suppose to do with groups like ISIS, do we turn our heads and claim it is just a regional problem, and yet this regional problem effects us in several ways, in the wallet as it influences markets, global prices of oil, and trade within that region....do we just shrug our shoulders and ride out the storm....and what do we do with all those refugees, the other effects of war, do we continue to pay out for other effects of war and continue our lives if nothing has happened. Most things that happen in this world affect us. That does not mean that we have the right to get involved in other nations business. I still believe that ISIS is just the old Saddam Sunni army attempting to set up a Sunni Caliphate made up of areas which are mostly Sunni populated. This is a civil war. The USA created it and we have no business in it. As to the Turkey bombings, what came first, Turkish airplanes bombing Sunni ISIS or the suicide bombings. But that is another thread. We are not the worlds sheriff, we are not the worlds conscience and we are not the worlds judicial court deciding how nations and peoples deal with their populations. The USA appears to think it is so I say let it do son, by itself, and suffer the consequences. I see where now the USA wants Canada to contribute $1 billion a year to Afghanistan to try to fix what the USA screwed up. Getting involved in a world war because some unstable NATO country decides on a defensive invasion of Russia is not a good idea for Canada. I am getting tired of Canada being used as political cover for American ambitions. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 14, 2016 Report Posted July 14, 2016 ....Getting involved in a world war because some unstable NATO country decides on a defensive invasion of Russia is not a good idea for Canada. I am getting tired of Canada being used as political cover for American ambitions. Canada got involved in previous world wars for far less. The Americans didn't start Canada's empire wars, but it sure finished them. NATO reflects this reality. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted July 14, 2016 Report Posted July 14, 2016 Turkey shouldn't even be part of NATO Agreed. We needed them against the Soviets, but I don't think their undemocratic nature lends itself well to NATO Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Peter F Posted July 15, 2016 Report Posted July 15, 2016 (edited) Agreed. We needed them against the Soviets, but I don't think their undemocratic nature lends itself well to NATO NATO doesn't give a fig about anyones 'undemocratic' nature. See Afghanistan...or Turkey! Turkey has tanks and troops and an airforce and thats all Nato cares about. Edited July 15, 2016 by Peter F Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
Army Guy Posted July 15, 2016 Report Posted July 15, 2016 Most things that happen in this world affect us. That does not mean that we have the right to get involved in other nations business. I still believe that ISIS is just the old Saddam Sunni army attempting to set up a Sunni Caliphate made up of areas which are mostly Sunni populated. This is a civil war. The USA created it and we have no business in it. As to the Turkey bombings, what came first, Turkish airplanes bombing Sunni ISIS or the suicide bombings. But that is another thread. We are not the worlds sheriff, we are not the worlds conscience and we are not the worlds judicial court deciding how nations and peoples deal with their populations. The USA appears to think it is so I say let it do son, by itself, and suffer the consequences. I see where now the USA wants Canada to contribute $1 billion a year to Afghanistan to try to fix what the USA screwed up. Getting involved in a world war because some unstable NATO country decides on a defensive invasion of Russia is not a good idea for Canada. I am getting tired of Canada being used as political cover for American ambitions. Your starting to get it, todays world is a global one in all aspects, from civil wars, to screwing with the prices of oil and other commodities. The UN is nothing more than a place to vent and rant your problems to, without any solutions bring brought forward and when they are they are Veto. Leaving the job to the other super powers.... What I don't get is most Canadians would rather watch the world burn, rather than lift a finger to help, sure we are there to hand out some Kleenex, and blankets but that is where we stop. That is until some little boys body washes up on the beach, then we all of sudden develope some form of emotions and want to help.....we open our wallets and homes to invite refugees, the same people we told to "it's a local problem sort it out by your self" we will not help your cause....now shut up and take your blanket.....mean while the main problem still exists, and still goes on.... ISIL is not trying to set up some Sunni nation, it kills anyone not of the same ideology, THAT INCLUDES Sunni Muslims...ISIL does not talk for all Sunnis, in fact the majority are speaking out again'st ISIL and their practices....one could hardly say "OH they just want their own homeland" lets give it to them and be done with this....ISIL is now in 1/2 dozen nations, not there to set up anything but to kill their enemies....which include everyone that does not think and act as they do.....How hard is that to see.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Big Guy Posted July 15, 2016 Author Report Posted July 15, 2016 (edited) ... .How hard is that to see.... I suggest that what one sees depends on the direction one is looking. There still appear to be Canadians who think that ISIS somehow appeared from outer space, or rose out of the ground or magically appeared out of thin air. This united fighting force whose tactics remind one of the blitzkrieg, is the remnants of the Iraqi army and Republican Guard. That explains the initial military and the consequent ability to hold Sunni land. They are protecting their homeland and are getting full support of the population in Sunni dominated areas. Why do you think they are so successful? I am not going to argue what I see as clearly the facts on the ground. Opposition to ISIS has been successful only in areas which are a mix of Shia and Sunni. Now that they are starting to encroach on Sunni lands, it is becoming guerilla warfare, just like the house to house fighting in Vietnam and Gaza and Afghanistan and ... and will have the same result. I do not think that Canada's role is that to instill liberty, freedom and democracy into the rest of world. Nor is it to be sheriff or judge of other nations. We should not be in the business of nation building - that is arrogant, faulty and folly. Any Canadians wishing to get involved in this conflict are free to join the mercenaries who can be found as part of this battle. Do not expect Canadians to fill that role. Edited July 15, 2016 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Argus Posted July 15, 2016 Report Posted July 15, 2016 We fight them over there while they're weak and disorganized, or we leave them to grow strong and powerful and then fight them over here. I know which I think makes sense. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Smallc Posted July 15, 2016 Report Posted July 15, 2016 Except that isn't really the way it works. The more we kill, the more we radicalize, at home and abroad. Quote
Big Guy Posted July 15, 2016 Author Report Posted July 15, 2016 Except that isn't really the way it works. The more we kill, the more we radicalize, at home and abroad. We have radicalized plenty and are already fighting them at home. Have we not had two terrorist attacks on our soil already? At the moment, our enemy - or one of our enemies - is living with their families in Syria and Iraq - ducking bombs since they do not have anti aircraft or aircraft or tanks or ... Until they learn to walk on water we are OK and safe from an invasion. As to suicide bombers - we will see. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Argus Posted July 16, 2016 Report Posted July 16, 2016 Apparently Canada is getting ready to send peacekeepers to Africa, to Mali, to fight Islamist terrorists and guerrillas. Won't that be fun? Sure be nice if Trudeau, who seems pretty generous in offering troops everywhere, was at least a little generous in supplying them with the equipment they need to keep them safe on the missions he's sending them on. This will not be a benign peacekeeping mission with cold beer on beaches in Cyprus crowded with European tourists. French West Africa has become a terrifying place, with Islamic terrorists flooding south across the Sahara from the chaos of Libya to cause mayhem, anarchy and despair in half a dozen impoverished countries. http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/world/matthew+fisher+truck+attack+france+ante+canada+peacekeeping+mission/12061583/story.html Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Army Guy Posted July 18, 2016 Report Posted July 18, 2016 Having any mission under direct UN control is much more dangerous, it adds dozens of layers to the chain of command, plus they control the RO&E, Ask Yugoslavia how the UN mission went there, before they were dumped in favor of a NATO mission. This is not going to be good. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Derek 2.0 Posted July 18, 2016 Report Posted July 18, 2016 Having any mission under direct UN control is much more dangerous, it adds dozens of layers to the chain of command, plus they control the RO&E, Ask Yugoslavia how the UN mission went there, before they were dumped in favor of a NATO mission. This is not going to be good. No doubt......think a French led Afghanistan, with all the crazy Islamic terrorists and IEDs, combined with FRY UN leadership.....what could go wrong? Quote
taxme Posted July 18, 2016 Report Posted July 18, 2016 Canada got involved in previous world wars for far less. The Americans didn't start Canada's empire wars, but it sure finished them. NATO reflects this reality. Canada got involved in the previous world wars because America told Canada to get their butt over there to help America again fight it's war. Quote
taxme Posted July 18, 2016 Report Posted July 18, 2016 Your starting to get it, todays world is a global one in all aspects, from civil wars, to screwing with the prices of oil and other commodities. The UN is nothing more than a place to vent and rant your problems to, without any solutions bring brought forward and when they are they are Veto. Leaving the job to the other super powers.... What I don't get is most Canadians would rather watch the world burn, rather than lift a finger to help, sure we are there to hand out some Kleenex, and blankets but that is where we stop. That is until some little boys body washes up on the beach, then we all of sudden develope some form of emotions and want to help.....we open our wallets and homes to invite refugees, the same people we told to "it's a local problem sort it out by your self" we will not help your cause....now shut up and take your blanket.....mean while the main problem still exists, and still goes on.... ISIL is not trying to set up some Sunni nation, it kills anyone not of the same ideology, THAT INCLUDES Sunni Muslims...ISIL does not talk for all Sunnis, in fact the majority are speaking out again'st ISIL and their practices....one could hardly say "OH they just want their own homeland" lets give it to them and be done with this....ISIL is now in 1/2 dozen nations, not there to set up anything but to kill their enemies....which include everyone that does not think and act as they do.....How hard is that to see.... Switzerland is always quite content to sit out on any war going on, and maybe watch the world burn which won't ever happen. The Swiss people are smart people. I can't say that for most Canadians. Quote
taxme Posted July 18, 2016 Report Posted July 18, 2016 I could give you a long list of countries that would disagree with your UN statement entirely but you could start with the state once called Yugoslavia, ask them how their rights were protected, during that conflict, as UN soldiers watch them cleanse entire villages, cities, helpless to stop them..... NATO is a defensive agreement signed by dozens of countries, meant to counter soviet aggression, so the answer to your question is yes, NATO would come to the aid of any country that signed on to that agreement, even if it meant going to wqar with mother Russia. If the state of our military bothers you so much, then why are you so good with it, is it the tax dollars spent, is it your afraid of our military, what is the reason you oppose it so much ? Regardless of the state of our military, our government will send it to defend this nation regardless, and those young men and women will pay for that decision with their lives....Something most Canadians are willing to live with....until it is their sons and daughters that will answer the call, wonder if they would change their tone then....when it is to late....when they are attending the funeral service for a love one.... NATO is a warmongering outfit which is under the control of the globalist elite. If a country does not do as they are told by the elite they are then attacked and volia a new war has begun. All this nonsense about Russian aggression is just that, nonsense. Russia is not attacking anyone or invading other countries. It is time to stop the war racket and get rid of the military and start looking for world peace. If America, Britain or Israel want to start wars all over the world, well leave Canada out of it. Canada cannot afford a military any more with all the problems we have in Canada. Keep the tax dollars that is being blown on wars here, and give it back to we the peasants. What I would like to see is all the money blown on wars be spent on space exploration by all countries. For myself, the war racket game is getting tiresome. It needs to be discontinued. Quote
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