America under President Trump

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, Boges said:

Apparently he directed funds be withheld in exchange for a public declaration of an investigation. 

I can see the bar you're holding. But you're a sycophant so I'm not exactly sure that's the same bar we're looking at here. 

It's pretty clear Trump withheld the funds in exchange of an investigation. I think most people concede that. It's the question of that being OK or not. 

You have to prove he withheld the funds in exchange for only going after Biden, with no other motive, or it means nothing. Sondland does not have that, Giuliani might, but probably not either. The bar is so high, the chances of Democrats clearing it is essentially zero, don't get your hopes up.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Boges]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

You have to prove he withheld the funds in exchange for only going after Biden, with no other motive, or it means nothing.

The other things have not been made public. 

What other corruption has been highlighted? He didn't mention anything else in the July 25th call. 

He also gave the excuse that other countries aren't helping Ukraine. 

1) Not True
2) Withholding the funds doesn't make other countries help. 

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

The other things have not been made public. 

What other corruption has been highlighted? He didn't mention anything else in the July 25th call. 

He also gave the excuse that other countries aren't helping Ukraine. 

1) Not True
2) Withholding the funds doesn't make other countries help. 

The corruption in Ukraine is always a common talking point, throughout pretty much all diplomatic exchanges, Kent said as much in his testimony. Just because you didn't see it in a phone call transcript doesn't mean it didn't happen and wasn't part of withholding the aid.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[godzilla]

Stone is going to jail:

Roger Stone found guilty of lying to Congress, witness tampering

how many of Trumps "best people" is that now? hahaha!
 

Edited November 15, 2019 by godzilla

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

So Sondland has first hand knowledge. If he claims that Trump directed him to withhold military aid to investigate Biden then he should be impeached then? 

If it’s proven that Trump instructed Sondland to withhold aid and to make the Ukrainians aware of the fact that no more aid was coming unless they investigated Biden that’s part 1. 

If Biden’s innocence is really as obvious as he claims it is, that’s part 2 of 2.
 

The main problem with the Trump impeachment theory is that Biden looks completely guilty to the naked eye and Trump didn’t do anything wrong if that was really the case. Biden had motive, opportunity, he confessed to using the weapon (his VP authorities), the victim (prosecutor) was terminated, Biden’s accomplices got off Scot-free, Biden covered his tracks by appointing a new prosecutor, the Bidens both lied blatantly several times about Joe’s reasons for firing the prosecutor... every single stitch of evidence that you would need in order to convict Biden of this crime is all right there in black and white. 
 

The only thing that’s missing, at all, is the mysterious piece of evidence that proves that Biden was somehow innocent. No one is saying what it is, they’re just telling us that it’s out there and that we need to rely on their opinion and to believe it.
 

[Yzermandius19]

Come on WestCanMan, it's innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent, Biden does not need to prove his innocence, anymore than Trump does.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[WestCanMan]

30 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Come on WestCanMan, it's innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent, Biden does not need to prove his innocence, anymore than Trump does.

That’s not the point, at all. 
 

It appears as though Trump had a whole host of reasons to think that a legitimate investigation into Biden’s interference into Ukrainian politics was necessary and zero reasons to think that it wasn’t. The Ukraine and the United States have an agreement in place whereby they both willingly investigate crimes when asked by the other.
 

If there’s a legitimate reason why we should all believe that Biden might be innocent why don’t they just tell us so that everyone can truly focus on Trump, like they keep saying we should? 
 

Their last two reasons (Biden didn’t even know that his son was working for Burisma, and the investigation was already over long before Biden fired that prosecutor) turned out to be blatant lies.

Why do the MSM outlets who have been caught lying so many times recently even ask Biden why he keeps providing phoney alibis? 
 

The whole truth is relevant to this process, not just the convenient parts of it. 

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

It appears as though Trump had a whole host of reasons to think that a legitimate investigation into Biden’s interference into Ukrainian politics was necessary and zero reasons to think that it wasn’t. The Ukraine and the United States have an agreement in place whereby they both willingly investigate crimes when asked by the other.

Agreed. Plus they would have to prove the Trump did it only for his own political gain and no other reason, that is bar they aren't going to clear. But they are too dumb to drop it, they are out to hang themselves.

[Shady]

1 hour ago, godzilla said:

Stone is going to jail:

Roger Stone found guilty of lying to Congress, witness tampering

how many of Trumps "best people" is that now? hahaha!
 

Yes, lying and witness tampering related to something (Russian collusion) that didn't happen.

[godzilla]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

Yes, lying and witness tampering related to something (Russian collusion) that didn't happen.

no need to lie and witness tamper if it didn't happen! hahahaha!

so not Trump tweets "So they now convict Roger Stone of lying and want to jail him for many years to come. Well, what about Crooked Hillary, Comey..." except that Donalds own DOJ just cleared Hillary! hilarious!

"Hillary Clinton Cleared of Mishandling Classified Information After 3-Year Private Email Probe, Trump So Far Silent"

Edited November 15, 2019 by godzilla

[taxme]

4 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I often post about religious nutjobs.  It's one of the fun things to do on here.

You really think Trump is taking them seriously?

You really think they think their God likes Trump?

The comedy is easily apparent.

Only religious fanatics and fools will believe that the 2nd coming of Christ is just around the corner. The Jehovah Witnesses have been saying this for decades now. I am still waiting. One of the biggest hoaxes ever brought into being was religion. I am pretty sure that Trump is more interested in making money rather than wanting to spend his time getting down on his knees and praying twenty times a day to Allah like Muslims do, or stand up in front of what they call a wailing wall like in Israel and bobbing their heads back and forth and reading their bible and really looking like a bunch of religious idiots. Religion is for fools who want and feel that they need a crutch to stand on or they will not be able to get thru their day. I am not religious in the least, and I am still doing okay without it, and getting by without beholding to some religious group out there. They will not be getting any money for their collection plate from me. I am free from religion, and I love it. I agree with you that religion is quite comical to watch.  

 

[taxme]

2 minutes ago, godzilla said:

no need to lie and witness tamper if it didn't happen! hahahaha!

Nothing happened, period. 

[Shady]

8 minutes ago, godzilla said:

no need to lie and witness tamper if it didn't happen! hahahaha!

so not Trump tweets "So they now convict Roger Stone of lying and want to jail him for many years to come. Well, what about Crooked Hillary, Comey..." except that Donalds own DOJ just cleared Hillary! hilarious!

"Hillary Clinton Cleared of Mishandling Classified Information After 3-Year Private Email Probe, Trump So Far Silent"

She wasn't cleared of misandling classified information.  She did.  Classified information was found on her illegal private server.  Over 500 violations were found related to her and her emails.  She was cleared of "systemic"violations.  Although I'm not sure how over 500 violations aren't systemic.  It must be nice to be part of the establishment!

[Shady]

10 minutes ago, godzilla said:

no need to lie and witness tamper if it didn't happen! hahahaha!

 

Right, so you charge somebody with something they didn't do, and if they change their story at all, you nail them for perjury, etc.  Nice system of justice there comrade.

[taxme]

5 hours ago, Boges said:

Because people praying for a crude pathological liar and philanderer just because he'll help them prevent women from aborting their pregnancy is hilariously hypocritical and ironic. 

You do not get out all that much, now do you? All politicians are pathological liars because that is what politics has become. If a person becomes a politician the first thing that they must learn is how to lie and not be noted or seen committing a lie. The two words that must never be uttered by a politician are the two words yes and no unless it is politically correct to do so. 

Hillary was all for abortion which is what one would call murder of an unborn baby. Is watching what happens to a baby in the womb being aborted a thing that you would find hilarious and something to laugh at? Try watching a video like I once did about what happens when a baby is being aborted. The baby is torn to pieces in the womb by the doctor. You can see the baby fighting for it's life. Try tearing off a few pieces of your body and see how that feels. You will not like it, and neither is the baby that is now being aborted likes it either. Abortion is a crime against humanity. Abortion is murder.  

[godzilla]

another riveting day of the impeachment hearings... while trump was not left hanging out to dry as much as the first day there were some really interested things happening.

if someone wants to figure out the truth then look no further than the Rs staff attorney, Steve Castor... this guy is not a politician and is sticking as closely to the facts that they have that he can. he's not putting his neck out there. and on both days he is struggling but not for any lack of talent but lack of a good argument. it must be kinda like climbing a shear rock face with your fingernails.

why is it that when Taylor and Kent were out there that the president was so silent? in fact, he's never attacked them personally? and yet when the Yavanovitch is out there then Trump's attacking her on Twitter instantly while at the same time Republicans on the committee are praising the hell out of her? pretty weird.

and then the whole "whistle blower" bull crap! hahaha! that's gotta be just one of those grudges that Trump has demanded from the Rs since it makes absolutely no sense to their arguments.

Edited November 15, 2019 by godzilla

[godzilla]

4 minutes ago, taxme said:

All politicians are pathological liars because that is what politics has become.

then demand more damn it! Trump has people convinced that the only way for democracy to succeed is that you support him being the biggest liar and the most corrupt?! continue to defend corruption and liars at your peril.

[godzilla]

11 minutes ago, Shady said:

Right, so you charge somebody with something they didn't do, and if they change their story at all, you nail them for perjury, etc.  Nice system of justice there comrade.

you know nothing about the case. seriously. he was tried by a jury of his peers and now he's going to the slammer for awhile. the rule of law is all that protects us from tyranny.

[Rue]

4 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

That’s not the point, at all. 
 

 

The whole truth is relevant to this process, not just the convenient parts of it. 

Read your own words. You  skip anything that doesn't suit your partisan support of Trump.

1-the point is NOT whether Biden or his son is corrupt-the point is if Trump thought they were he had a direct conflict of interest involving himself in anything to do with investigating Biden because he had a direct conflict of interest;

2-you keep avoiding no.1 because it doesn't fit your partisan denial;

3-the second point which you again ignore is that investigations of crimes to be credible must be conducted by neutral fact finders who have no direct interest in the outcome of the investigation which is what now has forced the impeachment process-to determine why Trump with a direct conflict of interest in regards to Biden spoke to any foreign government leader about Biden, period;

4-as for pretending the funds were withheld by coincidence play that tune no one buys it the same way when a fat man is caught with chocolate all over his face no one believes he hasn't eaten chocolate-in your world however Trump can lie over 12,000 times and you see no issue with his credibility and what he says so if he says something, you believe it. Well he said he asked the Ukraine President to investigate Biden. He admitted this. That was wrong. If you can not see why that crossed the line and abused his public powers and put the foreign interests of the US in direct conflict with the personal partisan interests of Trump going after a political competitor you of course will not. Your partisan view will not allow it.

5-the behavior with Ukraine is just one of many conflicts of interest Trump is involved in:

https://sunlightfoundation.com/tracking-trumps-conflicts-of-interest/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38069298

https://time.com/4574938/donald-trump-conflicts-of-interest/

https://time.com/4578431/donald-trump-conflicts-of-interest-list

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/10/trump-turkey-kurds-syria-conflict-of-interest-istanbul-towers.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/trumps-conflict-of-interest-with-china-2017-2

You really want to go after Biden's son, then do the same with Trump's family, use the same standard:

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/trump-administration-conflicts/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2018/02/13/trump-conflicts-of-interest-tenants-donald-business-organization-real-estate-assets-pay/

You are in denial as to what a conflicted corrupt slime bucket Trump is and how he has trashed POTUS and lowered any remaining credibility of POTUS.

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Rue

[godzilla]

32 minutes ago, Rue said:

as for pretending the funds were withheld by coincidence...

 

this whole thing will be explained on Saturday! you know, paperwork probably got misfiled... or the letter with the cheque went to Uruguay instead of Ukraine. something benign i'm sure.

OMB official to testify in impeachment probe

[Yzermandius19]

Obvious partisan witch hunt is obvious, nothing but hearsay.

[WestCanMan]

5 hours ago, Rue said:

Read your own words. You  skip anything that doesn't suit your partisan support of Trump.

1-the point is NOT whether Biden or his son is corrupt-the point is if Trump thought they were he had a direct conflict of interest involving himself in anything to do with investigating Biden because he had a direct conflict of interest;

2-you keep avoiding no.1 because it doesn't fit your partisan denial;

3-the second point which you again ignore is that investigations of crimes to be credible must be conducted by neutral fact finders who have no direct interest in the outcome of the investigation which is what now has forced the impeachment process-to determine why Trump with a direct conflict of interest in regards to Biden spoke to any foreign government leader about Biden, period;

4-as for pretending the funds were withheld by coincidence play that tune no one buys it the same way when a fat man is caught with chocolate all over his face no one believes he hasn't eaten chocolate-in your world however Trump can lie over 12,000 times and you see no issue with his credibility and what he says so if he says something, you believe it. Well he said he asked the Ukraine President to investigate Biden. He admitted this. That was wrong. If you can not see why that crossed the line and abused his public powers and put the foreign interests of the US in direct conflict with the personal partisan interests of Trump going after a political competitor you of course will not. Your partisan view will not allow it.

5-the behavior with Ukraine is just one of many conflicts of interest Trump is involved in:

https://sunlightfoundation.com/tracking-trumps-conflicts-of-interest/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38069298

https://time.com/4574938/donald-trump-conflicts-of-interest/

https://time.com/4578431/donald-trump-conflicts-of-interest-list

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/10/trump-turkey-kurds-syria-conflict-of-interest-istanbul-towers.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/trumps-conflict-of-interest-with-china-2017-2

You really want to go after Biden's son, then do the same with Trump's family, use the same standard:

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/trump-administration-conflicts/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2018/02/13/trump-conflicts-of-interest-tenants-donald-business-organization-real-estate-assets-pay/

You are in denial as to what a conflicted corrupt slime bucket Trump is and how he has trashed POTUS and lowered any remaining credibility of POTUS.

 

Lmao Rue. You don’t even know when conflict of interest rules come into play and the people who wrote that crap don’t either. (at least in the Time article I read).

Every POTUS will have POTENTIAL conflicts of interest. That’s why it was determined that politicians don’t have a full, legal fiduciary duty when they’re in office. 

Where a line is drawn is where politicians go out of their way to rake in cash entirely as a function of being in office.

There was, in all honesty, less than a one-in-a-billion chance that an already-employed Hunter Biden would just magically earn a job on the board of Burisma if his daddy wasn’t the VPOTUS and heavily involved in Ukraine. Just the fact that HB even got that job stretched the credibility of JB to the breaking point. They both knew it, that’s why they said that Joe never even knew he had the job. Whenever they met up ignored the elephant in the room just like BClinton did on the tarmac with AG Lynch (haw haw). Theoretically Joe didn’t even know his son had a job at Burisma and the topic of whether Hunter even had a job never came up. If you believed that at the time you’re an idiot but the photo came out so they confessed to lying about Joe’s knowledge of the Burisma job.

As if you don’t already know all of this. I’ve posted it all here and you’re an adult, you should be up to speed on this if you’re going to engage in the topic.

I guess I’ll just leave it at you ahve no clue wth is going on so your opinion is worthless.

 

[taxme]

23 hours ago, godzilla said:

then demand more damn it! Trump has people convinced that the only way for democracy to succeed is that you support him being the biggest liar and the most corrupt?! continue to defend corruption and liars at your peril.

What? demand to have more crazy ass liar politicians controlling our lives? Go away with your silly ass nonsense about Trump. What has Trump done to you that has made your life miserable and that you hate him so much? Are you a Canadian or an American? Try and get it thru your thick skull that all politicians do not have your interests at heart. Obama was just as bad, if not worse, than Trump in plenty of things. Why people like you keep attacking Trump when the democrats have been trying for three years to try and get Trump impeached which has all gone for a shit. 

Here is something for you with the latest democratic bs that is now going on in Washington. Did you know that Obamarama fired every American ambassador that was appointed by Bush in 2008. How is that for someone firing a bunch of ambassadors? Try and get the other side of the story and try to learn something else for a change and go watch FOX News for a week or two, instead of constantly watching no mind CNN, MSNBC or the CBC. America is a lot better off today then what it was when Obama ran the White House. And Obama did a lot of golfing too while the dictator of America was El Presidente. You are the one at peril and who are trying to defend corruption and want to keep the liars alive and well in the deep state swamp. 

Just remember this? Your prime mistake of Canada of today is no angel either. Trudeau was and still will be just as corrupt as he was during the past four years in the next four years as is the people that you like to defend like Obama, Hillary, Pelosi and Schiffster.  

[Cannucklehead]

Did he just make another quid pro quo in exchange for Bidens life?!???!!???

[OftenWrong]

16 hours ago, Cannucklehead said:

Did he just make another quid pro quo in exchange for Bidens life?!???!!???

Your post exemplifies the absolutely moronic position the left have put themselves in. Any statement, any move Donald Trump makes must be attacked, no matter how dumb the premise of that attack is. The average Joe-Bob is generally too stupid notice this, so does it work? Yes it does.

What I think's gonna happen is, all of this hype will have little to no effect on the partisans, who will keep the status quo. But the undecideds are people who are not loyal, and generally weigh the issues separately. They have a higher percentage of rational thinking brains among them. They are not likely to be swayed by this dog and pony show.