America under President Trump

[Michael Hardner]

14 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Why should they be satisfied ?

There are limits to anyone's wants.

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

There are limits to anyone's wants.

 

Only for those who accept such limits.   There will always be those who don't....this is where the sizzle comes from.

[WestCanMan]

6 hours ago, GostHacked said:

What kind of morality is needed to support genocide in Yemen via Saudi Arabia, and attempting to start another war with Iran, while trying to convince me the Saudi Arabia is better than Iran?

What kind of morality is needed for a nation not to provide basic health care for it's people?

What kind of morality is needed to bail out the banks to the tune of half a trillion dollars while claiming there is no money for that health care or proper education?

Anyways the question I asked is just another way of what MH said.  But then that means both MH and I asked about the USA's morality based on BC_2004's post. Hence the burden would be on BC to prove the points.

I'll ignore the 'whiny loser with no credibility'' slander for now.

 

How is the US attempting to start a war with Iran? By watching them blow up oil tankers? Get a life.

Saudi Arabia is a hair better than Iran because they're not actually blowing up other people's things there.

How many nations provide health care for all their people GH?

The US has provided lots of money for education. University isn't free in the vast majority of the countries on earth.

[WestCanMan]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

What do you mean no has seen inhumanity before?  You've got some nerve lecturing anyone about baseless platitudes.

Do you have adhd? The topic was the supposed inhumanity from the guards at the "concentration camps" (lmao) towards the inmates.

[WestCanMan]

On 7/3/2019 at 5:49 AM, GostHacked said:

Actually Trump is helping one going on in Yemen at this moment.

SaudiArabia, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt, Morocco, Jordan, Sudan, Kuwait, Qatar and Bahrain are the ones at war with Yemen.

[Michael Hardner]

10 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Only for those who accept such limits.   There will always be those who don't....this is where the sizzle comes from.

No, some things are limited.  Nobody can obtain 100% power for example.  You may cackle that upheaval and decline are part of the game but it makes no sense to say that and also embrace patriotism.  For one way is nihilism and the other is believing in something.

[GostHacked]

5 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

How is the US attempting to start a war with Iran? By watching them blow up oil tankers? Get a life.

I base that on the USA has already invaded Iran once and deposed their elected leader. Installed a dictator and that is how you got the situation in Iran today.  Again really stupid if Iran to have it's nations so close to all those US military bases in nations that have not been rebuilt since the USA coalitions went in and destroyed them.

Any real evidence that Iran blew up those tankers?? There is none. I challenge you to find me something concrete on that.

5 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Saudi Arabia is a hair better than Iran because they're not actually blowing up other people's things there.

Last time I checked, none of the 9/11 hijackers were Iranian.  17 out of the 19 were Saudi Nationals.

Last time I checked it was not Iran who was in Yemen.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29319423

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-saudis-are-the-cause-of-trouble-in-yemen-11562524415

5 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

How many nations provide health care for all their people GH?

With a quick search,  and some of them have been doing it since 1945.  Even some really poor nations are able to accomplish this, why can't the USA do it?

https://truecostblog.com/2009/08/09/countries-with-universal-healthcare-by-date/

5 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The US has provided lots of money for education. University isn't free in the vast majority of the countries on earth.

Then why are Americans so stupid (yes facetious) ? Maybe it's money wasted on education because .. Trump is the POTUS.

[eyeball]

6 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Do you have adhd? The topic was the supposed inhumanity from the guards at the "concentration camps" (lmao) towards the inmates.

The discussion has expanded to include America's embrace of extremism and inhumanity and yes, we haven't seen anything yet.  You apparently have some sort of disorder that makes you laugh at other people's suffering. 

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

 You apparently have some sort of disorder that makes you laugh at other people's suffering. 

This condition is pervasive, and compounded by increasing greed, gluttony, sloth, pride etc.

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I base that on the USA has already invaded Iran once and deposed their elected leader. Installed a dictator and that is how you got the situation in Iran today.  Again really stupid if Iran to have it's nations so close to all those US military bases in nations that have not been rebuilt since the USA coalitions went in and destroyed them.

Any real evidence that Iran blew up those tankers?? There is none. I challenge you to find me something concrete on that.

Last time I checked, none of the 9/11 hijackers were Iranian.  17 out of the 19 were Saudi Nationals.

Last time I checked it was not Iran who was in Yemen.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29319423

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-saudis-are-the-cause-of-trouble-in-yemen-11562524415

With a quick search,  and some of them have been doing it since 1945.  Even some really poor nations are able to accomplish this, why can't the USA do it?

https://truecostblog.com/2009/08/09/countries-with-universal-healthcare-by-date/

 

You're out to lunch GH.

Iran has talked openly about attacking American ships in the Gulf, they're threatening Israel all the time, they're the founders of the al quds day hate rallies, and it's our allies who are accusing iran of attacking those ships. Who do you think did it and where's your evidence of it? You're the only person I know who's saying Iran didn't do it.

What does this have to do with 9/11?

Iran isn't officially "in Yemen". They're the ones supporting the rebels there. I didn't even read this it's just the first thing that came up in google search: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-yemen-iran-houthis/exclusive-iran-steps-up-support-for-houthis-in-yemens-war-sources-idUSKBN16S22R

There are less than 35 countries on that list GH. Do you have any idea how many countries there are? Like I said, the vast majority of countries don't have universal healthcare.

Quote

Then why are Americans so stupid (yes facetious) ? Maybe it's money wasted on education because .. Trump is the POTUS.

Lol. Such an idiotic comment. Would you rather have a Dem as POTUS? What would be the point of getting a university degree in a country where housing is a right, a job with a living wage is a right, free healthcare is a right, and you get taxed at 90% and up on anything that you make over 200K? Who would go to university for 7 years (or take the risk to start a business and work 70+ hrs a week) just to bring home a little bit more than a grade 9 drop out?

What is so bad about Trump GH? Can you name a single way in which the US has gotten worse?

 

[OftenWrong]

15 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

A system that continues to change to support moneyed interests, but not fast enough for them is what they mean by extreme.

They are never satisfied.

 

The left pushed their agenda to what could also be called extreme. They too are never satisfied. Now it seems they are bent on destroying our economy and taking away our freedoms. Bastards.

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

 

The left pushed their agenda to what could also be called extreme. They too are never satisfied. Now it seems they are bent on destroying our economy and taking away our freedoms. Bastards.

Horseshit.  The left died in the 1980s.  The right has successfully tagged PC culture as 'left' to distract, to keep people from considering economic reforms.

[OftenWrong]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

Horseshit.  The left died in the 1980s.  The right has successfully tagged PC culture as 'left' to distract, to keep people from considering economic reforms.

Nonsense. The left certainly lives. If it died it was resurrected as the zombie left. Bernie Sanders is Fidel Castro resurrected, without a beard. 

America under president Trump certainly needs no major economic reforms, that's going as well as possible. He did all the reforms already.

[GostHacked]

13 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You're out to lunch GH.

Iran has talked openly about attacking American ships in the Gulf, they're threatening Israel all the time, they're the founders of the al quds day hate rallies, and it's our allies who are accusing iran of attacking those ships. Who do you think did it and where's your evidence of it? You're the only person I know who's saying Iran didn't do it.

Actually Japan (who's ship was attacked last) did not believe any of the so called evidence that it was Iran.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/japanese-tanker-owner-contradict-u-s-officials-over-explosives-used-n1017556

Quote

The Japanese owner of a tanker attacked in the Gulf of Oman claimed Friday that it was struck by a flying projectile, contradicting reports by U.S. officials and the military on the source of the blast.

U.S. Central Command said the two vessels were hit Thursday by a limpet mine, which is attached to boats below the waterline using magnets. U.S. Central Command released video it claimed showed an Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps patrol boat removing an unexploded mine from one of the tankers, the Kokuka Courageous.

You really believe that the Iranians would risk removing an un-exploded mine from a cargo ship? One that they ALLEGEDLY (meaning no real proof) slapped on the ship to begin with? Since I do not believe it was Iran who mined those ships, I would less believe that Iran would remove an un-exploded mine.

13 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

What does this have to do with 9/11?

It seems to me that you cannot even recall the question you raised. I was providing context.  CIA backed terrorists flew planes into buildings. None of them were Iranian. Because of the CIA and USA arming terrorists decades ago. The USA has never been attacked by Iran. NEVER.

13 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Iran isn't officially "in Yemen". They're the ones supporting the rebels there. I didn't even read this it's just the first thing that came up in google search: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-yemen-iran-houthis/exclusive-iran-steps-up-support-for-houthis-in-yemens-war-sources-idUSKBN16S22R

But Saudi Arabia IS OFFICIALLY in Yemen. Let's role with facts and not allegations.

13 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

There are less than 35 countries on that list GH. Do you have any idea how many countries there are? Like I said, the vast majority of countries don't have universal healthcare.

We are really referring to modern westernized nations.  Yes there are plenty of nations that do not provide national health care. But we have the USA being touted as the richest and best  place on the planet, they cannot seem to provide a basic right for it's own people. Shameful really. I am wondering where the disconnect is where a person who needs medical attention has to show that they have coverage before doctors do anything.

13 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Lol. Such an idiotic comment. Would you rather have a Dem as POTUS?

I don't care if it's a Dem or a Rep or an independent. What they stand for is what matters to me. What they say matters to me. I am a political atheist.

13 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

What would be the point of getting a university degree in a country where housing is a right, a job with a living wage is a right, free healthcare is a right, and you get taxed at 90% and up on anything that you make over 200K? Who would go to university for 7 years (or take the risk to start a business and work 70+ hrs a week) just to bring home a little bit more than a grade 9 drop out?

Sounds like the USA has bigger problems. Cost of living too high, wages not matching that cost of living increase. Most Americans cannot afford a single 1000$ medical emergency.

13 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

What is so bad about Trump GH? Can you name a single way in which the US has gotten worse?

Can you name a single way in which the USA has gotten better in any quantifiable fashion?

Also you are quite abrasive in your posts. Perhaps learn some civility when engaging with people online.

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

The discussion has expanded to include America's embrace of extremism and inhumanity and yes, we haven't seen anything yet. 

Like I said before, but you dodged the point - "no one has witnessed inhumanity at the border". AOC and that other dolt you referred to would have filmed it instead of just paying lip service to it if they saw something worth reporting on. Those two voted against border funding and encouraged people to cross illegally, now they're surprised that there are overcrowded facilities. Guess what eyeball - that's why you should elect politicians that can recognize problems in advance instead of electing politicians who don't even understand the exact same problems with the benefit of hindsight (is it really hindsight if you are oblivious to it? Or should we coin a new term for the Dems - hindsight blindness?).

Quote

You apparently have some sort of disorder that makes you laugh at other people's suffering. 

No, I just can't follow along with the infantile politics of the Dems/CNN.

Was there a crisis at the border 6 months ago when people were dying in the desert and human traffickers were smuggling in kids ( even Snopes will acknowledge that is happening, and they'll also acknowledge that children were released back into the custody of human traffickers when Obama was POTUS), like the Republicans were saying, or was that just a fake, manufactured crisis like the dems were saying?

Did the situation at the border suddenly turn into a crisis when two people died in a river like the Demmies are saying or did they just get on the bandwagon too late? As usual, the Dems are on the wrong side of history.

Is it a great idea for Dems to talk about abolishing ICE, giving illegal immigrants free healthcare, free university, allowing them to vote, and make other statements encouraging immigrants to rush the border? Hows that going to work out for them?

Is a wall really racist? When did walls become racist? Obviously it was at some point after Obama and Bill Clinton promised to build them.... 

If the Dems get their way and make life in the USA "free", and open up the border to anyone who wants in, where will all the food come from? Are there enough unicorn burgers for everyone? Who will build all the housing for them? Will those housing projects be sorta ghetto-ish, and not good enough, and will that be racist? Who will pay for the infrastructure required for all that housing? FYI sewer, water, and electricity doesn't just magically appear in front of housing projects. Where will all the water come from? California is a desert, and they are bringing in water from afar just to serve the population they already have. Do you have a plan for that? Does anyone? Who will teach all the new immigrants to speak english so that they can get jobs?  Should the US just adopt a second language, and all the costs associated with having courts operating in two official languages? (Do they even need jobs in Demland?)

Who is going to pay for all that? It sounds more like a plan to bankrupt the country than a humanitarian issue.

If you want to subscribe to the Dems "let them eat cake" theory that's your problem, it just means that you're long on dreams and short on brain cells - it doesn't mean that I have a disorder.

If you can turn their plan into "let them eat cake - here's how we're going to pay for it all" then I'm all ears. So let's hear your plan eyeball.

[WestCanMan]

15 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Actually Japan (who's ship was attacked last) did not believe any of the so called evidence that it was Iran.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/japanese-tanker-owner-contradict-u-s-officials-over-explosives-used-n1017556

You really believe that the Iranians would risk removing an un-exploded mine from a cargo ship? One that they ALLEGEDLY (meaning no real proof) slapped on the ship to begin with? Since I do not believe it was Iran who mined those ships, I would less believe that Iran would remove an un-exploded mine.

It seems to me that you cannot even recall the question you raised. I was providing context.  CIA backed terrorists flew planes into buildings. None of them were Iranian. Because of the CIA and USA arming terrorists decades ago. The USA has never been attacked by Iran. NEVER.

But Saudi Arabia IS OFFICIALLY in Yemen. Let's role with facts and not allegations.

We are really referring to modern westernized nations.  Yes there are plenty of nations that do not provide national health care. But we have the USA being touted as the richest and best  place on the planet, they cannot seem to provide a basic right for it's own people. Shameful really. I am wondering where the disconnect is where a person who needs medical attention has to show that they have coverage before doctors do anything.

I don't care if it's a Dem or a Rep or an independent. What they stand for is what matters to me. What they say matters to me. I am a political atheist.

Sounds like the USA has bigger problems. Cost of living too high, wages not matching that cost of living increase. Most Americans cannot afford a single 1000$ medical emergency.

Can you name a single way in which the USA has gotten better in any quantifiable fashion?

Also you are quite abrasive in your posts. Perhaps learn some civility when engaging with people online.

I'm abrasive because of all the unsubstantiated crap posts that you put out.

SA is officially in Yemen, Iran is supporting the Houthis. That's life. Tell the whole middle east that they're wrong because you know more than all those countries lol.

I never raised a question about 9/11. I raised a question about the inhumanities you referred to in your response to a post about the US border detainment camps. Where did you see 9/11 in that post you quoted? Do you follow? The correct answer is no, I don't know why I bother asking. 

The USA already has nearly unmanageable debt. They don't have the money for healthcare. They can't even build a wall. 

Who took over a US boat when Obama was POTUS and forced them to pay a ransom? Iran. 

The CIA train people to kill the bad people there, then the guys they trained say "hey we have weapons let's kill someone else too". Didn't you ever notice people on this site who hate the US because they get involved in the ME turn regularly around and say "the Americans should attack these guys now?" Ten years from now the US will be the bad guys for attacking whoever they attack now. They should let that area go to hell. 

 

[Michael Hardner]

55 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. Nonsense. The left certainly lives. If it died it was resurrected as the zombie left. Bernie Sanders is Fidel Castro resurrected, without a beard. 

2. America under president Trump certainly needs no major economic reforms, that's going as well as possible. He did all the reforms already.

1. Hyperbolic pap.  Show me where Sanders says he will seize the means of production.

2. And yet works people make no meaningful gains.  Things remain precarious and Trump scare mongers workers into thinking that Mexicans are stealing their wealth.

[bush_cheney2004]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

No, some things are limited.  Nobody can obtain 100% power for example.  You may cackle that upheaval and decline are part of the game but it makes no sense to say that and also embrace patriotism.  For one way is nihilism and the other is believing in something.

 

American history says otherwise....Revolutionary War....War of 1812...Mexican-American War...U.S. Civil War...Indian Wars...Spanish American War...WW1...WW2...Cold War...Korean War...Vietnam War...Iraq War (x2). 

I don't have to cackle anything for reality to smother your utopian dreams....again...and again.

But don't fret, you will still be able to watch it all on American media, as always.

[bush_cheney2004]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

This condition is pervasive, and compounded by increasing greed, gluttony, sloth, pride etc.

 

This is by design...from the very beginning...without apology.

And Canada has become even more economically and militarily dependent on the continuation of same.

The legal and illegal immigrants keep on coming to the United States....more than any other nation in the world...for over 100 years.

Smug weakness will never displace arrogant power.

[Dougie93]

14 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Smug weakness will never displace arrogant power.

I find Canadians to be much more arrogant than Americans, Canadians are passive aggressive high handed priggish snobs who like to pretend that their shit don't stink.

On the aggregate, I find Americans to be the friendliest, most forthright, upstanding and yet down to earth people on the planet.

In terms of wielding power, Americans don't even want that power, it is simply thrust upon them as the only people on earth who defend liberty and who have the means to do anything about it.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Dougie93

[GostHacked]

55 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I'm abrasive because of all the unsubstantiated crap posts that you put out.

Nothing if what I have posted has been incorrect.

55 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

SA is officially in Yemen, Iran is supporting the Houthis. That's life. Tell the whole middle east that they're wrong because you know more than all those countries lol.

Iran may be in Yemen, but I'd rather not support one terrorist regime over another. Makes the USA look like idiots on hypocrites. You said Iran is a hair better above Saudi Arabia. And I mentioned that Iran did not attack the USA. It was the CIA backed rebels that attacked the USA. That's all documented as historical fact and not even contestable.

55 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I never raised a question about 9/11. I raised a question about the inhumanities you referred to in your response to a post about the US border detainment camps. Where did you see 9/11 in that post you quoted? Do you follow? The correct answer is no, I don't know why I bother asking. 

The USA already has nearly unmanageable debt. They don't have the money for healthcare. They can't even build a wall. 

But yet money is there for war.  Why?

55 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Who took over a US boat when Obama was POTUS and forced them to pay a ransom? Iran. 

Let's talk about Iran Air Flight 655.

55 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The CIA train people to kill the bad people there, then the guys they trained say "hey we have weapons let's kill someone else too". Didn't you ever notice people on this site who hate the US because they get involved in the ME turn regularly around and say "the Americans should attack these guys now?" Ten years from now the US will be the bad guys for attacking whoever they attack now. They should let that area go to hell.

Yep because we see almost 20 years later where Afghanistan and Iraq are still both terrible places. 6 years into a Syrian 'civil war'  has been going on for close to 10 years.  And if you try Iran, expect to be there for 30+ years and that is with the caveat of actually defeating Iran.

There is absolutely no foresight with the US's foreign policy.  Actually this is exactly what the USA has planned.  Read Thomas Barnette's  The Pentagon's New Map , and that will explain about 90% of what you are seeing today.

[GostHacked]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

I find Canadians to be much more arrogant than Americans, Canadians are passive aggressive high handed priggish snobs who like to pretend that their shit don't stink.

On the aggregate, I find Americans to be the friendliest, most forthright, upstanding and yet down to earth people on the planet.

In terms of wielding power, Americans don't even want that power, it is simply thrust upon them as the only people on earth who defend liberty and who have the means to do anything about it.

Don't get me wrong I like Americans,  it's their government that is the problem. It's good to know the difference.

[Dougie93]

11 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Don't get me wrong I like Americans,  it's their government that is the problem. It's good to know the difference.

It's good to know the difference between the constitution which Americans defend and uphold and the federal government which they do not actually report to.

Too bad Canadians are such sycophants to their own lawlessly corrupt and incompetent government and never learn from Americans when it comes to seeking to limit government rather than centralize all power in a Nanny Police State to run every aspect of your lives for you as infantilized invalids.

[WestCanMan]

33 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Nothing if what I have posted has been incorrect.

Iran may be in Yemen, but I'd rather not support one terrorist regime over another. Makes the USA look like idiots on hypocrites. You said Iran is a hair better above Saudi Arabia. And I mentioned that Iran did not attack the USA. 

But yet money is there for war.  Why?

Let's talk about Iran Air Flight 655.

Yep because we see almost 20 years later where Afghanistan and Iraq are still both terrible places. 6 years into a Syrian 'civil war'  has been going on for close to 10 years.  And if you try Iran, expect to be there for 30+ years and that is with the caveat of actually defeating Iran.

There is absolutely no foresight with the US's foreign policy.  Actually this is exactly what the USA has planned.  Read Thomas Barnette's  The Pentagon's New Map , and that will explain about 90% of what you are seeing today.

Everything you say is disingenuous and biased, or wrong.

Iran IS in Yemen, just like Russia was in the Ukraine.

Iran did capture a US boat and hold it's sailors hostage. 

There's no reason to believe that Iran didn't attack the ships in the Gulf. 

Iran is making threats of war against the US and the destruction of Israel constantly.

Flight 655 was a military mishap. Those things are bound to occur in hostile areas during heated exchanges when errors are made ON BOTH SIDES at the same time. The capturing of a US vessel wasn't a mistake.

Iran is the world's most hateful, misogynistic, bigoted regime. Only Pakistan comes close.

The US made an unholy alliance with SA when the US needed oil from the ME. They had no choice but to try to pick the lesser of the 12 or 20 evils over there.

Foresight regarding the ME is that the area is a gigantic shithole and always will be. It should be avoided at all costs. 

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

1. American history says otherwise....Revolutionary War....War of 1812...Mexican-American War...U.S. Civil War...Indian Wars...Spanish American War...WW1...WW2...Cold War...Korean War...Vietnam War...Iraq War (x2). 

2. I don't have to cackle anything for reality to smother your utopian dreams....again...and again.

3. But don't fret, you will still be able to watch it all on American media, as always.

1. Even these don't support your thesis.  Limits to power exist.

2. Not Utopia but reality.  You ignored my point, which reveals your lack of defense.  In the past, you became very snowflakish on this point and even blubbered to the mods.

3. Yes, as fantasy.  Americans hate reality, as evidenced by you.  But you have the biggest hamburgers, the most famous president-rapists etc.  Be comforted.