America under President Trump

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

  

 

Where does it say it was the NFAC who did this? 

 

1 hour ago, Shady said:

He’s full of shit.

If you're saying Trump or Twitter is full of shit you should be able to substantiate that.

 

[Cannucklehead]

20 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

However Eyeball, if what you asking is 'how do authorities decide which side would be be better to concentrate their attention on' I can help you with that one.

It's a matter of deciding where is the most damage coming from in general - extremists damaging property and their fellow citizens from the left or from the right.

I can show you the answer to that question with a simple challenge.

I'll show you the damage being currently inflicted on people and property from the left. Feel free to try to match it with current stories of damage to people and property coming from extremists on the right.

While you are correct that this year has quite a bit of activity from the left, what of the past and activities from the right?  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/right-wing-extremists-killed-38-2019-anti-defamation-league/

 

Seems they are reaping what they sowed imo.   

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Cannucklehead

[Infidel Dog]

8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I heard it from Trump.

You heard Trump supporting protesters who want the lockdowns to end in their states. In that sense "liberation" is about ending the China Virus lockdowns not separating from America.

Quote

Although Trump didn’t explain what he meant, exactly, most people assumed the “liberate” comments referred to supporting protests that have erupted in states with Democratic governors after an earlier rhetorical clash over who has authority to open the country back up. 

https://heavy.com/news/2020/04/trump-liberate-michigan-minnesota-virginia/

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

@ Shady - I think when he says that "neither of the groups have broken any laws" he's referring specifically to that group on Stone

No I'm not, I'm talking to both whenever and wherever these groups have protested.  Neither of them have broken any and no one has shown that they have have, if anything authorities have recognized the right of any law-abiding protester to show up at a protest armed.

My question still stands, how do the authorities tell the stupid ones from the evil ones? Would they join sides or fight both?

[Infidel Dog]

16 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

While you are correct that this year has quite a bit of activity from the left, what of the past and activities from the right?  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/right-wing-extremists-killed-38-2019-anti-defamation-league/

 

Seems they are reaping what they sowed imo.   

 

The ADL report is partisan left. The Times of Israel says this about it:

The ADL Murder and Extremism Report is a fraud

However if you really want to introduce a longer time frame into the challenge, I'll play. What time frame would you prefer? 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[eyeball]

29 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

However Eyeball, if what you asking is 'how do authorities decide which side would be be better to concentrate their attention on' I can help you with that one.

It's a matter of deciding where is the most damage coming from in general - extremists damaging property and their fellow citizens from the left or from the right.

Okay but in the case of these 2 groups they both appear to stand for liberty and quite willing to kill and die for it.  If and when the shooting starts do the authorities step aside, join a side or fight them both?

Maybe it's simply going to come down to who shoots first. 

 

Quote

I'll show you the damage being currently inflicted on people and property from the left. Feel free to try to match it with current stories of damage to people and property coming from extremists on the right.

No. Instead you should match up evidence of criminal acts being committed by either group, evidence of convictions would really clinch it.

[Cannucklehead]

7 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

The ADL report is partisan left. The Times of Israel says this about it:

The ADL Murder and Extremism Report is a fraud

However if you really want to introduce a longer time frame into the challenge, I'll play. What time frame would you prefer? 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.un.org/sc/ctc/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/CTED_Trends_Alert_Extreme_Right-Wing_Terrorism.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiIoMyy3OvqAhXnoXIEHf97AmAQFjACegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw35IXzZEzMG-WKa3GuEIoGX

 

How does that sound?

[eyeball]

37 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

You heard Trump supporting protesters who want the lockdowns to end in their states. In that sense "liberation" is about ending the China Virus lockdowns not separating from America.

And what about liberty in the sense of protesters who who want their own country? That sense seems to have a pretty rich tradition of being celebrated in America as I recall. There's statues, monuments and schools dedicated to this all over America.

If there was ever a time when it seemed appropriate to say 'there's some very fine people on both sides' this should be it. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by eyeball

[Infidel Dog]

23 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.un.org/sc/ctc/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/CTED_Trends_Alert_Extreme_Right-Wing_Terrorism.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiIoMyy3OvqAhXnoXIEHf97AmAQFjACegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw35IXzZEzMG-WKa3GuEIoGX

 

How does that sound?

Why? Did you want me to find reports calling those sorts of reports fraudulent? You've seen one. There have been many. But that wasn't the original challenge.

What are you saying? You don't like my challenge of case against case so you would like to create a different challenge where you produce reports of twisted data from time frames you prefer and I spend all day finding the many critiques of such reports.

Yeah...no thanks. There are tons of critiques of such data twisting reports from the left. They get buried off the mainstream and they're a pest to find. But if you ever feel up to the original challenge just start and I'll reply.  I can have fun by learning actual, factual things from that one.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[Infidel Dog]

18 minutes ago, eyeball said:

And what about liberty in the sense of protesters who who want their own country? That sense seems to have a pretty rich tradition of being celebrated in America as I recall. There's statues, monuments and schools dedicated to this all over America.

If there was ever a time when it seemed appropriate to say 'there's some very fine people on both sides' this is it. 

Possibly but that wasn't what you said. You inferred Trump was pushing for separation of states "Liberated" from the federal fold. That would be a lie. Either you wanted to make that point or you didn't. If you didn't, well good for you. If you did, it's a lie. So without misdirecting can you tell us which specific claim you are making?

[eyeball]

43 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Possibly but that wasn't what you said. You inferred Trump was pushing for separation of states "Liberated" from the federal fold. That would be a lie. Either you wanted to make that point or you didn't. If you didn't, well good for you. If you did, it's a lie. So without misdirecting can you tell us which specific claim you are making?

I didn't make a specific claim I asked a specific question.  How do the authorities tell the good guys from the bad guys? I inferred nothing in that.

You've suggested the criterion you would use but as I pointed out elsewhere the authorities recognize the right of anyone to show up to a protest armed and no one has been arrested doing so which still leaves my question hanging.

[taxme]

On 7/22/2020 at 5:51 AM, Boges said:

The Graph indicates a very high positivity rate in March/April that dropped and has ticked back up. 

But consider that in March, April and May you were only testing people who were had symptoms, as the testing infrastructure wasn't well established. So the positivity rate was much higher. In New York and California, you saw a positivity rate around 50% in April.

Now that people can get testing for screening purposes and there are places like New York where positivity rate is now around 1%. Those are things that would naturally drop the National positivity rate. 

But in states that are struggling, the positivity rate is still quite high considering how many people they're testing. 

Florida: 19%
Texas: 15%
Arizona: 24%
Georgia: 15%

This indicates that they're testing a lot of sick people. And we've all seen lineups at testing facilities.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/07/11/covid-19-test-results-delayed-labs-struggle-cases-surge/5406936002/
I doubt people would endure that unless they really thought they had the disease. 

You still refuse to believe that the American democratic politicians, the American pro-democratic MSM, and their so called health experts like fraudster Fauci are all telling people like you the honest to gawd's truth, eh? You still want to believe those fake manufactured numbers, eh? It's no wonder this virus has lasted this long. It still has people lie you around who still believe that the covid manufactured number lies are for real. I told members here about Event 201 put on by Bill Gates, and that they should go google it. But sadly, it does appear as though many have not bothered because if they did they would have seen the lie in this Covid virus exercise scamdemic compliments of Bill gates and his globalist communist ilk. President Trump must win the next election or else. If not, there will surely be a second Covid created after the election, or maybe even before, called Covid #20, and nobody alive today is going to like that new Covid#20.  The world needs Trump, and not Gates. One is good and great while the other is pure evil and satanic. Believe it or not. 

[Infidel Dog]

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

I didn't make a specific claim I asked a specific question.  How do the authorities tell the good guys from the bad guys? I inferred nothing in that.

You've suggested the criterion you would use but as I pointed out elsewhere the authorities recognize the right of anyone to show up to a protest armed and no one has been arrested doing so which still leaves my question hanging.

You're a little mixed up. You're arguing the wrong post.

My point you're replying to in that post went to the graphic below which you previously posted. With that you claimed trump was pushing for a separation of states from the federal fold. That would be either a mistake or a lie. You tell me which. Trump was just suggesting the states liberate themselves from the Democrat lockdown.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[Boges]

6 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

You're a little mixed up. You're arguing the wrong post.

My point you're replying to in that post went to the graphic below which you previously posted. With that you claimed trump was pushing for a separation of states from the federal fold. That would be either a mistake or a lie. You tell me which. Trump was just suggesting the states liberate themselves from the Democrat lockdown.

The rush to re-open has clearly gotten the US situation to where it currently is. 

In all other developed nations, economies have re-opened with not nearly the pressure of such high caseloads of COVID. 

The rush to re-open amid the pandemic has actually stalled re-opening in some of the largest states in the US. 

[Boges]

In a time when the US Economy is very fragile, Republicans are bickering over extending financial benefits. The plan sets to expire on Friday. 

The paradox of US society is that the $600 top-up is more generous that many people's full-time job before the pandemic. So many will have to be cut-off before deciding going back to work in a pandemic will be worth it for them. 

 

[WestCanMan]

18 hours ago, eyeball said:

No I'm not, I'm talking to both whenever and wherever these groups have protested.  Neither of them have broken any and no one has shown that they have have, if anything authorities have recognized the right of any law-abiding protester to show up at a protest armed.

My question still stands, how do the authorities tell the stupid ones from the evil ones? Would they join sides or fight both?

Like I said before, the evil ones are out intimidating citizens, the kooks are ‘defending America from covid stupidity’.

[Infidel Dog]

4 hours ago, Boges said:

The rush to re-open has clearly gotten the US situation to where it currently is. 

In all other developed nations, economies have re-opened with not nearly the pressure of such high caseloads of COVID. 

The rush to re-open amid the pandemic has actually stalled re-opening in some of the largest states in the US. 

I don't know why you keep smacking that frying pan outside your door. It's not even New Year's Eve.

It's not just noise at this point. It's noise without raison d'etre.

First you said it was only only Republican states with second wave covid cases. Then you were shown it was also the Democrat state of California. Then you said America was being shown up by Europe. But you were shown this was not the case with death rate. Also a second wave hit Europe. And Sweden never locked down, yet that wasn't where the second wave was hitting.

As far as high caseloads go, you've been shown that is a result of increased testing.

And if you'd like to continue with that unsupported hypothesis that only republican states got a second wave perhaps you missed this one:

Washington state sounds alarm over rising coronavirus cases

There's no shame in being wrong. Anybody can make a mistake. But to insist on continuing to be wrong when all doubt is removed as to how wrong you are...c'mon man. America under Trump and the Republican states compare just fine for China virus control with similar states and Europe.

 

 

 

 

 

[Boges]

51 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

First you said it was only only Republican states with second wave covid cases. Then you were shown it was also the Democrat state of California. Then you said America was being shown up by Europe. But you were shown this was not the case with death rate. Also a second wave hit Europe. And Sweden never locked down, yet that wasn't where the second wave was hitting.

That's a dense analysis of the numbers. A vast majority of Europe's case load and deaths happened in March and April that necessitated a shutdown. Currently European deaths have slowed to a trickle if not stopped. The US still regularly records 1,000+ deaths a day. 

Quote

As far as high caseloads go, you've been shown that is a result of increased testing.

Did the entire discussion we had last week about positivity rate just go through your brain with zero retention? Increased testing would lower the positivity rate. Ontario hasn't had a day with positivity over 1% since like June, if that. 

 

Quote

There's no shame in being wrong. Anybody can make a mistake. But to insist on continuing to be wrong when all doubt is removed as to how wrong you are...c'mon man. America under Trump and the Republican states compare just fine for China virus control with similar states and Europe.

That's why 150 Medical experts are calling for another shut down.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2020/07/24/medical-experts-tell-government-shut-it-down-now-and-start-over/#409c5cd9695c

Quote

As the coronavirus pandemic continues to spread throughout the U.S. despite mask mandates and social distancing measures, more than 150 medical experts, scientists and other health professionals signed a letter organized by a prominent consumer group and delivered to government leaders Thursday calling for new shutdowns to bring case counts down and “hit the reset button” to implement a more effective response.

Nothing to see here. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Boges

[Infidel Dog]

25 minutes ago, Boges said:

That's a dense analysis of the numbers. A vast majority of Europe's case load and deaths happened in March and April that necessitated a shutdown. Currently European deaths have slowed to a trickle if not stopped. The US still regularly records 1,000+ deaths a day. 

I was going to scold you for not reading the article linked on the previous page showing you how wrong you are about that. Then I tried it myself and realized I'd posted the link incorrectly.  So, OK, I admit it. My bad. 

Here it is agan. This time posted correctly with a bit of an intro:

Quote

Spanish health officials have warned the country could already be experiencing a “second wave” of coronavirus, as France, Germany and Belgium all reported steep rises in their number of cases...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/24/europe-warns-of-need-for-vigilance-as-covid-19-cases-rise-sharply

Edited July 27, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[Boges]

16 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

I was going to scold you for not reading the article linked on the previous page showing you how wrong you are about that. Then I tried it myself and realized I'd posted the link incorrectly.  So, OK, I admit it. My bad. 

Here it is agan. This time posted correctly with a bit of an intro:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/24/europe-warns-of-need-for-vigilance-as-covid-19-cases-rise-sharply

Spain's National daily count is around 2,500 with a negligible increase in deaths. 
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

Germany's Spike still amounts a few hundred daily. 
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/

France has spiked to around 1,000 cases daily with no appreciable increase in deaths. 
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/

Similar to the recent "surge" in Canada that still amounts to no more than 500 cases a day, these are only spikes compared to early July numbers as these countries slowly emerge from strict lockdowns. 

Conversely the US is plateauing and around 60,000 new cases a day and a few hundred deaths, at the low end, or 1,000+ on the high-end. 

[Infidel Dog]

The massive increase of tests accounts for higher infection raw numbers. Currently America tests about 8 times that of Spain and Germany and about 14 times that of France.

I notice you forgot Belgium.

Second waves can still happen in areas where the previous infections were high like Italy or New York. But who was gotten is already gone or cured and immune. Why would it surprise you that it might take a little longer to resurge? As the Guardian told you resurgences are starting to happen in Europe.

And there's all sorts of stats buried within stats. Positivity rate for example would not necessarily include things like false positives or negatives. Who is shown positive in increased testing would be another big one. Younger people are often asymptomatic and have a miniscule death rate yet increased testing would catch them and increase positivity rate. I believe you've already been told this and other arguments against your belief Positivity rate is the be-all, end-all of stats.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[Infidel Dog]

Charlie Baker, the governor of Massachusetts is a Republican:

Mass. COVID-19 positive rate down 2 months into reopening

[Cannucklehead]

13 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Charlie Baker, the governor of Massachusetts is a Republican:

Mass. COVID-19 positive rate down 2 months into reopening

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcboston.com/news/local/gov-baker-to-provide-update-on-coronavirus-in-mass-8/2166481/%3famp

 

He said the two clusters stem from a house party on Cape Cod and a hospital in western Massachusetts

 

So?  The numbers are climbing again.....

[Infidel Dog]

And did you notice the daily positives for the two states you originally feigned concern over - Texas and Florida - are actually decreasing over the last couple of weeks?

This according to the site you originally linked to.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/individual-states

[eyeball]

14 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

You're a little mixed up. You're arguing the wrong post.

My point you're replying to in that post went to the graphic below which you previously posted. With that you claimed trump was pushing for a separation of states from the federal fold. That would be either a mistake or a lie. You tell me which. Trump was just suggesting the states liberate themselves from the Democrat lockdown.

You're the one who's mixed up. The mistake/lie you see is a figment of your imagination. What I did was inform WCM that the inspiration he claimed came from CNN actually came from Trump thru Twitter. As I said I made no claim. I asked a question. Why are you still trying to avoid it? I mean that's okay, I get a lot of that around here and rather enjoy the contortions they produce in people. Always reminds me of that line from that old Doors tune "his brain is squirming like a toad"