kactus Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 A devalued currency means tourism is much cheaper, and tourism is a major industry in the UK. In addition, it makes their exports cheaper to other countries, so they will sell more, thus employing more people. The only problem with a devalued currency is it makes imports more expensive, but that just makes locally produced goods and services cheaper. You are wrong! If anything the cost of the package holiday to European destinations will go up. Further afield, prices in destinations including the US, Dubai and China will rise in proportion with the strength of the dollar relative to sterling; many currencies are locked to the US$. Even if you never venture beyond Europe, the $:£ rate is also significant. Oil is priced in dollars, as are aircraft. So a 12 per cent fall in sterling will push up the price of petrol, diesel and aviation fuel, as well as the cost of aircraft for airlines such as British Airways and easyJet. Will I be asked to pay more for my holiday this year - or next? The Package Travel Regulations allow tour operators to impose surcharges when the cost of a package holiday goes up after you booked because of currency fluctuations or rising fuel costs. The company must absorb the first 2 per cent of any increase, and if the surcharge goes above 10 per cent then you have the right to cancel. http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-travel-europe-holidays-what-does-it-mean-latest-live-eu-referendum-result-a7099931.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 You are wrong! If anything the cost of the package holiday to European destinations will go up.He was talking about tourists visiting the UK and spending money in the UK. It will also help UK manufacturers facing import tariffs to the EU by reducing labour costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) He was talking about tourists visiting the UK and spending money in the UK. It will also help UK manufacturers facing import tariffs to the EU by reducing labour costs. There is no more UK manufacturing industry....It's gone. UK is primarily a service based industry! Nevertheless, there may be restriction of movements to and from UK and the article from Independent posted here states this. Edited June 25, 2016 by kactus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Your argument makes no sense. You were talking about clothing and electricity. Sunlight is irrelevant. Sunlight is the ultimate good of free trade. The only way the State can forbid sunlight is through the absurdity of window blinds. TimG, think Milk. (Clueless. Shakes head.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Nevertheless, there may be restriction of movements to and from UK and the article from Independent posted here states this.You mean just like there are restrictions of movements to and from Canada, the US and every other country with a service centered economy. Frankly, the rush to "prove the fear mongering correct" is silly. It will take time for the system to adjust and for any negative or positive effects to appear. There will most likely be a combination of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) Still caca, but at least worded in a way that is palatable enough for a response. No, this has nothing to do with love of immigrants. While immigration played a big role on the Exit side, you'll find that the biggest concern for the Remain side was financial reasons. $2 trillion dollars were wiped off the world markets yesterday. There is uncertainty everywhere. Separatist sentiments will certainly be incited around the world. You're dead wrong about why 'progressives' are angry. Because progressives are always upset about temporary setbacks to the stock markets... Edited June 25, 2016 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 I think there are two reasons why they're not gloating or celebrating their win: 1 They didn't really want to win, just protest. 2 They are horrified by the immediate and disastrous effects of their 'win'. . What 'immediate and disastrous effect" has their been? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 You are wrong! If anything the cost of the package holiday to European destinations will go up. You don't know what you're talking about. What 'European" destinations cost is irrelevant. People wanting to go to the UK will find it cheaper. People wanting to buy British goods will find them cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Another interesting angle are the foreign workers residing in country who fear they are screwed, with no more easy access to EU opportunities/travel from the UK. I wonder if the "Chunnel" would have been built in a post Brexit world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 The referendum means nothing, Parliament must negotiate the exit from the European Union. Who is going to do that? As I said earlier, the government will fall and UKIP will need to run on a platform of leaving the union because no other party will. Its not over until the fat lady sings. The Government won't fall........its one year into a majority mandate........as to negotiations, simple......the same folks that have been doing exactly that for the United Kingdom for hundreds of years. Cameron will be replaced by (likely) Boris Johnson (maybe Michael Gove) and the United Kingdom will KBO....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 You mean just like there are restrictions of movements to and from Canada, the US and every other country with a service centered economy. Frankly, the rush to "prove the fear mongering correct" is silly. It will take time for the system to adjust and for any negative or positive effects to appear. There will most likely be a combination of both. Sure it will take time but the reality is the average British holiday maker will have to fork in more to their favourite holiday destinations in Spain http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/eu-referendum-uk-brexit-spain-summer-holiday-2016-travel-advice-euro-money-currency-exchange-rates-a7087816.html This is not a fear mongering fantasy as you state but it's real. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/18/eu-facts-what-would-leaving-the-eu-mean-for-expats/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) Still caca, but at least worded in a way that is palatable enough for a response. No, this has nothing to do with love of immigrants. While immigration played a big role on the Exit side, you'll find that the biggest concern for the Remain side was financial reasons. It played a role, but not in the way many think.........the greatest concern wasn't over "brown people" but worker mobility rights afforded to Eastern Europeans and the impact they play on jobs, pay and safety rights in the United Kingdom.......Trade unions were just as vocal as the "uneducated rural folks".....this is no more evident by the loss in support of the Labour Party during their last election and the little influence they played on Brexit. Edited June 25, 2016 by Derek 2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) What 'immediate and disastrous effect" has their been?Pretty wonky currency and stock market this A.M.Seems to have rallied now. . Edited June 25, 2016 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Still caca, but at least worded in a way that is palatable enough for a response. No, this has nothing to do with love of immigrants. While immigration played a big role on the Exit side, you'll find that the biggest concern for the Remain side was financial reasons. $2 trillion dollars were wiped off the world markets yesterday. There is uncertainty everywhere. Separatist sentiments will certainly be incited around the world. You're dead wrong about why 'progressives' are angry. Yeah, and of the billions lost on market volatility yesterday, the vast majority came out of the pockets of the ultra wealthy, the 1% of the 1% of the 1%. Of that $2 trillion, over $125 billion of it came out of the pockets of just 400 individuals. Those "losses" weren't in the form of jobs and income from regular working people. It was based on the effect of stock prices and exchange rates and the assets held by the wealthiest individuals, the biggest corporations, the top hedge-funds... I simply don't believe that progressive started caring about the stock market portfolios of the ultra-wealthy in the past week. Why did those stock prices fall so much anyway? Ultimately, it's because shareholders believed that their stocks would become less valuable as companies lose ways of cutting jobs, acquiring cheap labor, outsourcing jobs, finding tax loopholes, and finding ways of shielding their wealth. Shareholders dumped their stocks yesterday for reasons that should make progressives cheer. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Sure it will take time but the reality is the average British holiday maker will have to fork in more to their favourite holiday destinations in SpainJust like Canadian Snowbirds were hit when the C$ dropped. Currencies fluctuate as circumstances change this is good thing. Not a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Why did those stock prices fall so much anyway?More likely because market was overvalued and needed a "trigger". If it wasn't brexit it would have been something else. Stocks never go up constantly. They always have periods of decline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) Sorry, but you'll need some time on a high speed elevator to work your way up to the sub-basement below my level. Uhm no. Sound familiar? So you're basically saying the same thing again. Foreigner will work harder for less. And yet, you expect the locals who are pushed aside to welcome this, and call them xenophobes for not doing so. No logic whatsoever behind your words. Are you a Canadian citizen? What do you do for a living? Assuming you work, would you mind giving up your job so a foreigner could do it for less and the company could make more profit? I shall ignore your comment on speed elevator. That elevator of yours has been stuck in the parking for some time... ...Back to the topic here where I can refresh your memory about what you said... http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/25585-britain-sets-date-for-eu-referendum-brexit/?p=1168774 But here is the reality that will bite some hard...The migrant poles have for long done a great work in UK and helped revitalise the economy in an otherwise competitive market. Now if I am an owner of a small business I am interested on who can deliver me the job at the lowest cost and most productive way. No love lost there if some of my British compatriots may not be able to deliver the same good at the rate a Pole can do. That's what keeps the business competitive.... Edited June 25, 2016 by kactus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) You don't know what you're talking about. What 'European" destinations cost is irrelevant. People wanting to go to the UK will find it cheaper. People wanting to buy British goods will find them cheaper. That is not true! Britain's reliance on imported food will increase costs for food manufacturers and the consumer....Foreign package holiday will become more expensive too. Edited June 25, 2016 by kactus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Because progressives are always upset about temporary setbacks to the stock markets... Quit stereotyping us as all broke ass latte servers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 To me, "free trade" simply means letting the sun into my kitchen on a winter morning. I no longer need Hydro-Quebec; I can turn off the lights. If I can buy clothes produced elsewhere, that's like letting Hydro-Quebec direct its electricity at noon elsewhere - to something more useful. (To me, buying Canadian-made clothes rather than foreign made clothes is like closing the windows and turning on the lights at noon to use local Hydro-Quebec energy rather than the free energy of the sun.) August, you don't get it. (to phrase it in Augustese.) The point you are missing is you need to have a way to generate income to pay for that clothing. The only way to do that is to provide goods or services that others want to buy from you. If 'free trade' means that no one buys stuff from you then you can't afford the clothing. Tim gets it. Until such time as the factories of China or Mexico start delivering their products to your kitchen free of payment, a comparison to sunlight is completely unwarranted. If the cost of a widget drops thanks to cheap Chinese manufacturing, then our buying power increases. But if the average Canadian income drops due to the offshoring of jobs, then the benefit of this increased buying power isn't as compelling as it first appears. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Yeah, and of the billions lost on market volatility yesterday, the vast majority came out of the pockets of the ultra wealthy, the 1% of the 1% of the 1%. Of that $2 trillion, over $125 billion of it came out of the pockets of just 400 individuals. Those "losses" weren't in the form of jobs and income from regular working people. It was based on the effect of stock prices and exchange rates and the assets held by the wealthiest individuals, the biggest corporations, the top hedge-funds... I simply don't believe that progressive started caring about the stock market portfolios of the ultra-wealthy in the past week. Why did those stock prices fall so much anyway? Ultimately, it's because shareholders believed that their stocks would become less valuable as companies lose ways of cutting jobs, acquiring cheap labor, outsourcing jobs, finding tax loopholes, and finding ways of shielding their wealth. Shareholders dumped their stocks yesterday for reasons that should make progressives cheer. -k I thought the Remain camp was the elitist with the most to lose while the Exit camp was the working class who was not affected by all this? Funny how you can distort things any way you want to suit your agenda. And even funnier that you continue to know what 'progressives' are thinking even when it's pointed out to you that from the very start, before the crash, immigration was only a factor for the Exit camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 No one is arguing for mass murder of Muslims (ironically it is Islamists that are arguing for mass murder of non-Muslims). They just don't want Muslims to immigrate from other countries. I am not concerned with this minor groups of fanatical moslems that are arguing for mass murder of non-moslems but rather the generalisation by some in the west that classify over billion of them as fanatics. If that's where we are heading where we claim all of them are the same then that would be a dangerous territory in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 I thought the Remain camp was the elitist with the most to lose while the Exit camp was the working class who was not affected by all this? Funny how you can distort things any way you want to suit your agenda. Its not black or white.....both camps are made up of people that support all the parties, the difference between the Tories and Labour is that the Tories acknowledged the division within their own ranks and gave its members a "free vote".......... As for the elite.........prior to the vote George Soros was warning a Leave would devastate the UK......after the vote, he's now saying the EU itself is finished........watch for Soros to start purchasing recently devalued pound sterling, well selling his holdings of the Euro The EU is the Titanic........the UK simply got onto a lifeboat first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) Its not black or white.....both camps are made up of people that support all the parties, the difference between the Tories and Labour is that the Tories acknowledged the division within their own ranks and gave its members a "free vote".......... As for the elite.........prior to the vote George Soros was warning a Leave would devastate the UK......after the vote, he's now saying the EU itself is finished........watch for Soros to start purchasing recently devalued pound sterling, well selling his holdings of the Euro The EU is the Titanic........the UK simply got onto a lifeboat first. I agree that it's not black or white - I just disagree completely with Kimmy's take that Remain is upset about 'rejection of multiculturalism' when the issue is so much bigger than that. Edited June 25, 2016 by BC_chick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) I know this has already been exhausted to death in this thread but it's good to revisit this one more time... How old people have screwed over the younger generation - in three charts http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/how-old-people-have-screwed-over-the-younger-generationin-three-charts--W1AA_n4nEb Edited June 25, 2016 by kactus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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