Britain Sets Date for EU Referendum -- Brexit

[Argus]

Nobody's colonizing us.

Such nonsense.

I think you were plagiarizing that! That was originally said by Chief Cloud In Head of the Beothuk tribe back in 1659.

[Argus]

So far, the value of the currency has devalued to worse than 'Black Wednesday'. The worst drop in the currency for 31 years. The governor of bank of England proposed £250bn to salvage the economy since the announcement. Many brits are already shell shocked and delusioned by the propaganda that has been fed by both camps. The reality is as said before a service based economy like UK is heavily reliant on EU will struggle in the next few years. This coupled with unemployment, job insecurity in many multi national corporates will be the starting point for a 'technical' recession. Only time will tell...

A devalued currency means tourism is much cheaper, and tourism is a major industry in the UK. In addition, it makes their exports cheaper to other countries, so they will sell more, thus employing more people. The only problem with a devalued currency is it makes imports more expensive, but that just makes locally produced goods and services cheaper.

[Argus]

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You mean like India?

Compared to how the Muslim conquerors treated the Indians the British were benevolent as they come.

[Argus]

I'll bet the majority you see there are not of British heritage.

You must be wrong. Jacee says there is no colonization going on...

[BC_chick]

I doubt, more likely the opposite..the financial sector is all about future stability...what's done is done with the United Kingdom. The British now, will control all of their own sovereign interests, a partial revision to the Victorian Empire economy.........the European Union is the one that will face growing instability as other countries leave (or look to leave) the Union.............expect Sweden and Denmark to follow along, and very likely Italy, the Netherlands and the Greeks......if/when the Nordic countries leave, the French and Germans will be tied to a bunch of weak economic countries....I'd be surprised if the Germans let themselves get to that point.

The British leaving the EU is as historic for Europe as the collapse of the Soviet Union and the death of Mercantilism......and borrows many parallels from both.

Well, lobby groups in both countries were already setting the stage, but the French finance minister (edited to correct) said it officially yesterday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-france-redcarpet-idUSKCN0ZA36O?mod=related&channelName

Edited June 25, 2016 by BC_chick

[Argus]

I think the leave vote was driven much less by the statements of the leave campaign than by people's disillusionment with the status quo and the statements and people representing the remain campaign. This vote was a referendum on the state of the UK over the last decade or so.

Agreed. Talking about how London is the financial powerhouse of Europe is irrelevent. That benefited London, sure, which is one of the reasons London voted Remain. The rest of the country didn't see themselves getting anything out of the deal, however.

[Argus]

For god sake what are you talking about!?

Most of these refugees are held in Croatia! It is miles away from the doorsteps of UK! These refugees cannot leave! What has that got to do with UK!?!?!?!

More than a million and a half refugees from the middle east and north africa have landed in Europe in the last two years, and they keep coming. Most of them are being allowed to stay. That means they'll be granted citizenship in some European country or other, and once they have citizenship they're free to move to the UK. Why should they? Because the UK has one of the better economies in Europe and because English is one of the world's more universal second languages. Not many in the Middle East speak Italian or German, but quite a few speak passable English

[Argus]

I did some sales on Wednesday; not nearly enough as it turned out. I will be repurchasing on Monday what I sold Wednesday.

The problem is determining whether this was a one-day wonder or if it will last for weeks. If the European financials continue to go down there could be more problems. Some of the big Euro banks lost 20-25% of their value yesterday. They can't keep that up long.

[betsy]

Indeed very right sir!

Back then jews were considered a threat and were murdered in masses for just being jewish. There was no distinction if colour skin.

There was very much distinction in color. Non-whites!

While the millions of victims who perished during the Holocaust were overwhelmingly Jewish and at the forefront of Adolf Hitler‘s psycho-driven efforts to “purify” Europe, and eventually, the world of non-white peoples, Black people were also casualties of the Holocaust, according to the United State Holocaust Memorial Museum.

http://newsone.com/2003496/holocaust-remembrance-day/

Today the same sentiment is rising in europe and elsewhere against "brown skinned" people aka moslems....

No, it's not the same sentiment at all. You're confused.

The Nazis were trying to PURIFY Europe by getting rid of non-whites. The only race that matters was the white race, thus if you want to make comparison, you would do best to point to the Islamists as having the same sentiments as that of the Nazis, except that the Islamists' reason is based on religion.

The Islamists want to PURIFY the world by getting rid of all infidels - in the name of Allah!

The Nazis and the Islamists both have purification in mind!

The growing sentiments against Muslim immigration is due to the fact that it's Islam that's been causing terror and chaos right now! Which part of that is hard to understand?

All over the world - terrorist acts are mostly done by Islamists! You do realize that in some third world countries, there is a

tit-for-tat retaliation!

At least, in Europe and other democratic societies, there are no such retaliations of violence, but there are efforts being planned to contain the situation in a sensible manner.

And that sentiment is not only in Europe! Australia is proposing a 10-year ban on Muslim immigration.

Edited June 25, 2016 by betsy

[Argus]

And hte problem is that the moron won't even keep the immigrants out. It is a demagogic appeal to the worst in America.

Yes, but it's also the same appeal to the masses on economics who have been ignored by the elites in power for the last twenty five years.

Lots of ordinary people in America and the UK are getting nothing out of the new economy but longer hours of work for shorter pay and fewer benefits.

[Argus]

England deserves to become the small backwater it was prior to industrialization.

You mean when British ships ruled the waves and they colonized India, America, Australia... ?

[eyeball]

Some of the big Euro banks lost 20-25% of their value yesterday. They can't keep that up long.

Sure they can, all they have do is let the perception that it's all the fault of immigrants and their leftist supporters continue to run rampant. Easy peasy.

[BC_chick]

More than a million and a half refugees from the middle east and north africa have landed in Europe in the last two years, and they keep coming. Most of them are being allowed to stay. That means they'll be granted citizenship in some European country or other, and once they have citizenship they're free to move to the UK. Why should they? Because the UK has one of the better economies in Europe and because English is one of the world's more universal second languages. Not many in the Middle East speak Italian or German, but quite a few speak passable English

Hmmm, interesting given that the people with the most amount of years left to work wanted to Remain while the retired age plus overwhelmingly wanted to Exit.

But sure, immigrant job thieves sounds like a great boogeyman. Those retirees should be shivering in their cardigans.

[?Impact]

You mean when British ships ruled the waves and they colonized India, America, Australia... ?

Don't forget Iraq, Palestine, TransJordon, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman, Aden (Yemen), Egypt, Nigeria, Gold Coast (Ghana), etc.

Yup, them Brits sure did screw up the world.

[kimmy]

Quite an interesting role reversal going on. Normally it seems like the pro-business trade-loving right are the ones supporting trade pacts, while progressives oppose globalization. But on the Brexit, it seems like the right have abandoned their enthusiasm for trade, while the progressives are decrying it as a great tragedy. I assume that this unusual shift has come about because the right want less immigration while the progressives are heartbroken at the prospect of fewer brown-people entering Britain.

Personally, my cynicism is telling me that anything that the big banks and big financial institutions and big businesses and establishment politicians all support is probably not in the best interests of Average Joe.

-k

[?Impact]

while the progressives are decrying it as a great tragedy.

No, the progressives are having a big laugh. Those that voted to leave are now blaming those who voted to remain for the result. You just can't have better comedy than this.

[jacee]

The problem is determining whether this was a one-day wonder or if it will last for weeks. If the European financials continue to go down there could be more problems. Some of the big Euro banks lost 20-25% of their value yesterday. They can't keep that up long.

Big OOPS!

brexit-anger-bregret-leave-voters-protest-vote-thought-uk-stay-in-eu

You know the children who say they're going to 'run away from home' ... and then they come back for lunch?

That's Britain's "Leave" voters today:

'We didn't really mean it!'

Racism makes for stupid decisions.

.

[Guest]

Don't forget Iraq, Palestine, TransJordon, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman, Aden (Yemen), Egypt, Nigeria, Gold Coast (Ghana), etc.

Yup, them Brits sure did screw up the world.

Can you imagine the mess it would be in if we'd let the French or the Spanish do it?

[Derek 2.0]

Well, lobby groups in both countries were already setting the stage, but the French finance minister (edited to correct) said it officially yesterday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-france-redcarpet-idUSKCN0ZA36O?mod=related&channelName

And Napoleon called the British a nation of shopkeepers.....companies like Lloyds , Barclays, BAE, HSBC, BP, Royal Dutch Shell, the Royal Bank of Scotland, GlaxoSmith Klein etc have no incentive to leave the United Kingdom for Europe......these companies have been in the United Kingdom for decades and in some cases centuries....the UK has been a financial capital for hundreds of years.

The smartest thing the British ever did was not enter the Euro zone.....the British Pound will remain in a state of flux until there is a clearer picture on the details of leaving the EU.......the currency that will be the hardest hit is the Euro (to the benefit of the US Dollar), what with ~six national elections in the next year, all with countries with strong Euro skeptic parties........The European Union is the loser in all of this.

[kimmy]

Big OOPS!

brexit-anger-bregret-leave-voters-protest-vote-thought-uk-stay-in-eu

You know the children who say they're going to 'run away from home' ... and then they come back for lunch?

That's Britain's "Leave" voters today:

'We didn't really mean it!'

Racism makes for stupid decisions.

.

There's no way to quantify that. This is just anecdotes. Given the intense passion this referendum caused, there's no reason to doubt that most supporters on both sides were very sincere about their vote.

-k

[dre]

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/colby-cosh-britain-voted-for-brexit-because-it-wants-to-be-canada-and-we-hate-the-idea

I agree that leave vote has created chaos that will cause significant harm in the short term (I would have voted remain if I was British). However, I reject the assertion that there was any need for the EU superstate. Canada has survived fine without joining the US and there is absolutely no justification for such a merger. Why is there any more justification for the EU? Why is the UK less because it seeks emulate Canada's way of dealing with close neighbors?

Well the one good thing about the EU is that it allowed Germany to take over without killing millions of people. One positive thing about integration is that the more European states are dependent on each other and linked to one another the less likely they are to start gigantic wars every 50 years or so.

Canada and the US is a totally different dynamic. We are gnat living next to an elephant. Everyone knows who's in charge and there's nothing to fight about. Its a naturally symbiotic relationship.

Having said that, globalists and free traders would like to crush democracy in Canada and the US as well. If we ratify the TPP we surrender the right for democratically elected governments to write laws around things like patents, and intellectual property. Another agreement being worked would eliminate borders similar to what the Shengen agreement did in Europe.

Its no surprise that free traders and globalists hate democracy because every time people are actually given the chance to vote on any of their projects they are told to jam them up their asses.

The NO vote in Britain is a significant victory for common sense but the slow steady march towards a global state run by corporations and bankers will continue.

Edited June 25, 2016 by dre

[Derek 2.0]

Quite an interesting role reversal going on. Normally it seems like the pro-business trade-loving right are the ones supporting trade pacts, while progressives oppose globalization. But on the Brexit, it seems like the right have abandoned their enthusiasm for trade, while the progressives are decrying it as a great tragedy. I assume that this unusual shift has come about because the right want less immigration while the progressives are heartbroken at the prospect of fewer brown-people entering Britain.

Personally, my cynicism is telling me that anything that the big banks and big financial institutions and big businesses and establishment politicians all support is probably not in the best interests of Average Joe.

-k

Not the slightest, the "right" has abandoned its enthusiasm for the rebirth of 17th century European mercantilism in the form of today's European Union.........Putin's reaction (of all people), which he's been muted through the whole process, is one of understanding for the British people, likening the European Parliament to the Supreme Soviet in terms of electoral accountability and control over a population......The British reaction, as I'm sure will follow across the EU, from Italy, to the Netherlands, Denmark, to Hungry and Poland, is the populace tried of the political establishment's control over their day to day lives..........This is Europe's Trump and Sanders.

[dre]

Big OOPS!

brexit-anger-bregret-leave-voters-protest-vote-thought-uk-stay-in-eu

You know the children who say they're going to 'run away from home' ... and then they come back for lunch?

That's Britain's "Leave" voters today:

'We didn't really mean it!'

Racism makes for stupid decisions.

.

This is a bit too simplistic. Its true that immigration was a big factor in the vote but just because someone is concerned about immigration does not mean they are racists. Further more the euro-skeptic movement in the UK has been growing for a long time... decades. And its really about the loss of sovereignty and people losing the ability to govern themselves in a national democracy.

Was racism a motivation for many on the LEAVE side? Sure... but its still a lot more complicated than that.

I'm not a racist, and I'm generally in favor of letting in quite a few immigrants, but I STILL wouldnt want Canada's immigration policy to be set by a bunch of bureaucrats and bankers in another country that are not even directly accountable to Canadian voters.

Edited June 25, 2016 by dre

[jacee]

There's no way to quantify that. This is just anecdotes. Given the intense passion this referendum caused, there's no reason to doubt that most supporters on both sides were very sincere about their vote.

-k

It doesn't look like it. They were just thumbing their noses, not expecting the fallout.

I expect there will be polls to see if people would change their vote in a do over.

And I predict there will be a do over.

.

Edited June 25, 2016 by jacee

[Icebound]

And Napoleon called the British a nation of shopkeepers.....companies like Lloyds , Barclays, BAE, HSBC, BP, Royal Dutch Shell, the Royal Bank of Scotland, GlaxoSmith Klein etc have no incentive to leave the United Kingdom for Europe......these companies have been in the United Kingdom for decades and in some cases centuries....the UK has been a financial capital for hundreds of years.

The smartest thing the British ever did was not enter the Euro zone.....the British Pound will remain in a state of flux until there is a clearer picture on the details of leaving the EU.......the currency that will be the hardest hit is the Euro (to the benefit of the US Dollar), what with ~six national elections in the next year, all with countries with strong Euro skeptic parties........The European Union is the loser in all of this.

All might be true.

And CERTAINLY true that "EU is the loser in all of this"

But those poor dissatisfied "non-elites" who voted to leave.... they will not be a "winner" in all of this. Their problems do not stem from EU politics, or immigration policy or anything else like that... their problems stem from the economic and banking model within which they live. And THAT is pretty much the same in much of the western world whether within the EU or without.

The only "winners" are going to be the few politicians who can now obtain somewhat more power than they could before. They won't actually be able to DO anything USEFUL with that power.... at least not for those millions who feel oppressed. Oh, there may be some pretense, such as limiting immigration for a while...only to quietly reverse it to get more cheap labour...

And they will try to "negotiate better deals" ... until it becomes necessary to open back up to get market access.

The bottom line improvement for the leavers will be ZERO... except that it will be less than zero when you figure in the political instability, the time lost to re-negotiations, the reduced GBP buying power, the plain stigma.

This exercise is now ... and will remain... a negative-sum game. Everybody loses... except for a very few elites, but those always win anyway.

...