Islamophobia in Canada

[Omni]

3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

You mean police reports that said two suspects were arrested: Bashir al-Taweed and Hasan Matti? Those police reports?

No, I mean the actual one that shows there was one perp, and that they mistakenly arrested someone who was trying to administer first aid and was released when that became evident. I know the little alahu akbaar thing excites you, but sorry, that was from a mosque member.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Omni said:

No, I mean the actual one that shows there was one perp, and that they mistakenly arrested someone who was trying to administer first aid and was released when that became evident. I know the little alahu akbaar thing excites you, but sorry, that was from a mosque member.

I understand you subscribe to the Government's version of what happened. I'm referring to what actually happened but then they changed it to suit the narrative.

You're free to believe Big Brother's version.

[Omni]

2 minutes ago, Omni said:

No, I mean the actual one that shows there was one perp, and that they mistakenly arrested someone who was trying to administer first aid and was released when that became evident. I know the little alahu akbaar thing excites you, but sorry, that was from a mosque member.

Had it of been a Christian church attacked you probably would have heard "Oh My God" from someone.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

You're free to believe Big Brother's version.

Do you have another source that details this whole cover-up ?

[Argus]

10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Why do you think I am 'contented' ?  Stop making up attitudes of mine, and focus on choosing your words more carefully.  Even Kimmy had to come to your rescue for some reason.

She did? How? You produced nothing of relevance but a torturous argument that because a web site has covered a couple of stories of Syrians the media in Canada is on the ball and not at all trying to downplay problems. And now you're bragging about how Kimmy had to come to my 'rescue' because, I guess, of the amazing quality of your evidence!

 

Quote

Yes, I am disheartened with the lack of spectrum in this discussion.  Clearly, we have a two-tiered attitude towards these issues and an elected class that doesn't have to deal with problems such as overcrowded schools and violence.  They prefer to paper over problems,and the lack of discussion means the issue is forced into one of two buckets: everything is fine vs. this is a disaster.

And here you basically agree with what I and Kimmy were pointing out!

Quote

BTW - to address the initial point you made before Kimmy joined, you are correct: I haven't found any Canadian media that asks about attitudes of the recent refugees.

Thank you for your honesty. I hope we don't have to have something like what happened in Germany over the mass sexual assaults or what happened in the UK over everyone ignoring child sex abuse for so long before they wise up. Because the media and police in both countries have now been thoroughly discredited and extremism is rising rapidly in both countries.

Douglas Murray pointed out that the English Defense League was formed as a direct consequence of government and police doing nothing about the Muslim extremism they were seeing in their streets. He pointed out that this was an absolutely logical and predictable thing to see happening, and that is is happening in other countries, as well. We see the bare start of such groups in Canada now, particularly in Quebec like PEGIDA, Soldiers of Odin, and La Meute.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Argus

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

Do you have another source that details this whole cover-up ?

 

You are also free to believe what you are told by the Government. I'm not here to change your mind. Either you saw the story change and were shocked or you didn't.

Or perhaps something more partisan...you are in for a pound...what's a penny? Diversity is strength...correct?

 

 

 

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

You are also free to believe what you are told by the Government.  

 

No - I listen to the press, not government press releases.  So you don't have anything I guess ?

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

No - I listen to the press, not government press releases.  So you don't have anything I guess ?

 

LOL...never worked in the media, I see.

[Omni]

5 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

I understand you subscribe to the Government's version of what happened. I'm referring to what actually happened but then they changed it to suit the narrative.

You're free to believe Big Brother's version.

I assume your thoughts are as faulty as another frequent poster here who thinks that CBC is controlled by "Big Brother" The story might have been even more fun for them had it of actually been a Muslim terrorist instead of some local dude gone wrong. What does Breitbart say anyway?

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, Argus said:

1) And here you basically agree with what I and Kimmy were pointing out!

2) Thank you for your honesty. I hope we don't have to have something like what happened in Germany over the mass sexual assaults or what happened in the UK over everyone ignoring child sex abuse for so long before they wise up. Because the media and police in both countries have now been thoroughly discredited and extremism is rising rapidly in both countries.

1) Yes

2) It cuts both ways.  Sensationalist media isn't any more helpful than non-reporting.  I don't buy the immigrant crime-wave thing any more than I buy the line that they are all innocents.  

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

1) never worked in the media, I see.

1) Are you saying you have manufactured lies for public consumption ?  That's a great opportunity for you to come clean and expose something big isn't it ?

[Argus]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

1) Yes

2) It cuts both ways.  Sensationalist media isn't any more helpful than non-reporting.  I don't buy the immigrant crime-wave thing any more than I buy the line that they are all innocents.  

I don't know about an immigrant crime wave, but by now I'm sure you've at least glanced at the Ottawa citizen posting of the most wanted criminals in Ottawa I've put up a number of times. You don't see a lot of white faces on it. How much Muslim crime there is in Canada is not recorded anywhere I'm aware of, and I've never seen the slightest mention of it in any media. Anyone who reads the papers in Ottawa, however, can't fail to notice the parade of Arabic names in police crime reports.

 

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Omni said:

I assume your thoughts are as faulty as another frequent poster here who thinks that CBC is controlled by "Big Brother" The story might have been even more fun for them had it of actually been a Muslim terrorist instead of some local dude gone wrong. What does Breitbart say anyway?

 

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

1) Are you saying you have manufactured lies for public consumption ?  That's a great opportunity for you to come clean and expose something big isn't it ?

 

Again: you're free to suck the teat of the MSM. It doesn't matter to me. I'm not here to change you. Either you believe what they tell you (lol) or not. Myself, having been close to government, police and media all my life...choose not to.

You ARE living in La-La land if you think there's something magic about their abilities, mind-you.

 

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

1) I'm sure you've at least glanced at the Ottawa citizen posting of the most wanted criminals in Ottawa I've put up a number of times.

2) You don't see a lot of white faces on it. How much Muslim crime there is in Canada is not recorded anywhere I'm aware of, and I've never seen the slightest mention of it in any media. Anyone who reads the papers in Ottawa, however, can't fail to notice the parade of Arabic names in police crime reports.

 

1) No.

2) Noted and needs study.

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

 

1) Again: you're free to suck the teat of the MSM. It doesn't matter to me. I'm not here to change you. 

 

1) I am asking to suck the teat you are attached to, and there appears to be no teat.  No teat.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

1) I am asking to suck the teat you are attached to, and there appears to be no teat.  No teat.

 

Glad you noticed. Now...get back to the MSM....

[Omni]

2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Glad you noticed. Now...get back to the MSM....

So I guess then we'll have to assume you were actually at the Mosque in PQ when the shootings happened so as to be able to direct us so accurately as to what occurred there.

[Omni]

Just now, Omni said:

So I guess then we'll have to assume you were actually at the Mosque in PQ when the shootings happened so as to be able to direct us so accurately as to what occurred there.

I can understand it must have been a harrowing experience, so I guess it's understandable how other people who were there tell a different story.

[Argus]

11 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) No.

2) Noted and needs study.

It needs the MSM, government and police to address issues the public notices, not downplay them in the interests of dissuading racism.

I don't know if "The wolf pack" actually has 43,000 members, but if so that would make them bigger than the British National Party and the English Defense League combined.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-far-right-la-meute-1.3876225

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, Argus said:

1) It needs the MSM, government and police to address issues the public notices, not downplay them in the interests of dissuading racism.

2) I don't know if "The wolf pack" actually has 43,000 members, but if so that would make them bigger than the British National Party and the English Defense League combined.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-far-right-la-meute-1.3876225

1) I can certainly see why they want to dissuade racism.  The one person arguing on your side on this thread has crossed over into conspiracy territory.  

2) Also highlights the need for real public dialogue IMO.  

[Argus]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) I can certainly see why they want to dissuade racism.  The one person arguing on your side on this thread has crossed over into conspiracy territory.  

Kimmy?

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2) Also highlights the need for real public dialogue IMO.  

Open dialogue. Honest dialogue. To repeat from a discussion on attitudes towards immigration and extremism I posted in another topic. I would add that I completely agree with the last sentence in particular.

In her telling, showily, absolutely insisting on unconstrained diversity “pushes those by nature least equipped to live comfortably in a liberal democracy not to the limits of their tolerance, but to their intolerant extremes.” And once authoritarians are activated, the outcome depends in part on how its conservatives react. If they side with the authoritarians, repressive policies follow. But under the right conditions, conservatives can be counted on to rally behind pluralism and tolerance. One condition is that they feel reassured "regarding established brakes on the pace of change, and the settled rules of the game.”

Thus my alarm. When it comes to immigration, many conservatives presently fear that there are no breaks on the pace of change, and that the rules of the game are being broken.

 

[Army Guy]

On 5/6/2017 at 5:57 PM, Omni said:

Luke 19:27:
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

As well as Matthew 10:34:
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

The Bible is a long, complex document with many conflicting interpretations.  You can find text to justify practically anything, and people have.  Mainstream Christianity focuses largely on the peaceful message of the New Testament, though obviously some today and throughout history have used it in much more violent ways.

And with all this violence written in the bible, does christianity have an issue with christian extremists committing suicide bombings, killing other christians on a daily basis to prove a political point. not to further change within their religion ..... but to drag their religion back a thousands years....

[kimmy]

19 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2) Are you saying: Rebel Media isn't real media ?  Isn't Canadian ?  Stormfront is as much Canadian media as Rebel is ?  I don't think Rebel Media is mainstream media but it is "Canadian media".  

Yes, as I said I don't think Rebel Media is "real media". They're political propaganda pretending to be news, much like Breitbart.  I think it's sad that real news organizations only picked up the story after Rebel covered it.

We saw the same thing in regard to the Cologne New Year's Eve debacle-- the story was blowing up on social media, but the major media outlets only started covering days later after public anger at the media became impossible to ignore. They knowingly sat on the story, made themselves complicit with the police and politicians who tried to keep it quiet, and only came clean after their credibility had already been tarnished. Their failure became a big part of the story. What we see in Canada has been far less dramatic, but follows the same pattern.

 -k

[dialamah]

20 hours ago, Argus said:

I don't know about an immigrant crime wave, but by now I'm sure you've at least glanced at the Ottawa citizen posting of the most wanted criminals in Ottawa I've put up a number of times. You don't see a lot of white faces on it. How much Muslim crime there is in Canada is not recorded anywhere I'm aware of, and I've never seen the slightest mention of it in any media. Anyone who reads the papers in Ottawa, however, can't fail to notice the parade of Arabic names in police crime reports.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's Ottawa.  Have you looked at the most wanted in BC?   Mostly white faces.   Even in Surrey, hotbed of immigrant crime, 7 out of 10 are of white Canadian origin. 

In Edmonton, a lot of First Nations.    

In Calgary, mostly white faces again.  

In Winnipeg, all white.  

Toronto, mostly immigrant or immigrant descent.

Out of Canada's 110 most wanted, 32 might be of Middle Eastern/African descent based on either their pic and/or their name; the other 78 look to be Canadians or from Asian/European/South American immigrant populations, again based on their pic and/or name.

Vancouver, Ottawa, and Toronto have approximately the same ratio (between 20% and 23%) of immigrants within their populations; Surrey is over 30%.   This might lead a person to ask "Why are there so many immigrant people on wanted lists in Toronto/Ottawa and so few on the Vancouver and Surrey lists if immigration and crime are related?"  I did ask that question and did not find any really satisfactory answer but I did find a couple of sources that at least looked at the issue of immigrants and crime.

Report from Stats Canada outlining the difference between Caucasian and non-Caucasian offenders:

Quote

In summary, visible minority offenders seem to be less “entrenched” in a criminal lifestyle than Caucasian offenders. They tend to have less extensive criminal histories, are incarcerated less often for offences against the person, and are lower in risk and need than Caucasian offenders. They also tend to have higher levels of education, less unemployment, and are less often single. These circumstances may help in rehabilitation. Among visible minority offenders, Black offenders tend to exhibit more problem areas than Asian or “other visible minority” offenders.

 

 

 

This Walrus article is particularly interesting in that it discusses how first-generation immigrants reduce crime-rate and make neighborhoods safer, but that second-generation 'regress' toward the mean and become more like non-immigrant populations in terms of criminal behavior.

Still, as the article points out:

Quote

As each generation regresses to the mean, the mean itself has shifted and improved, thanks, it appears, to immigration making the country safer overall. Living in Canada may change immigrants, but not before they change Canada for the better.

 

 

Ultimately, I don't think one can draw conclusions about crime based on wanted posters.   They are, after all, merely a snapshot in time:  in a year or two or three, perhaps Vancouver and Surrey posters will show more people of immigrant descent, and Toronto/Ottawa will be mostly white.   

 

Edited May 8, 2017 by dialamah

[DogOnPorch]

Islam is a religion...not a skin colour.