Argus Posted January 27, 2016 Report Posted January 27, 2016 good on ya for turning this thread back towards Canada - so "her agenda as expressed by you", should have no cause for worry/concern then in regards Canada, hey! . That statement has no logic behind it given we are just bringing them over now. Not to mention that the police keep no statistics on the degree of criminality of newcomers from different religious backgrounds who are arrested for attacking women. if, to you, providing reference data that speaks to the degree of criminality exercised, is "deride"... guilty as charged! Your data was read and dismissed as utterly irrelevant. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Hal 9000 Posted January 27, 2016 Report Posted January 27, 2016 So you are suggesting that a certain percentage of rapes per asylum seeker is acceptable? You're looking at it all wrong. I think rather than calculate "rapes per asylum seeker" as you're doing, Waldo perhaps just looks at rapes and assaults differently. I think what he's trying to say is that 500 or so sexual assaults in one city in a single night is just not enough to raise any concern. I don't know how many sexual assaults should happen before these people decide to care. My speculation, based solely on their argument of just how many immigrants there are leads me to think it would have to be in the thousands. Of course that number could increase as the refugee numbers also increase. The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Guest Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) I don't know how many sexual assaults should happen before these people decide to care. Quite a few, if Rotherham is anything to go by. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal Edited January 28, 2016 by bcsapper
cybercoma Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 That's an extreme description of what happens to a woman in Cairo, especially if she is wearing a burka. However, let`s play your simplistic, superficial game; My answer to that is, put that woman in most other Muslim countries and she would be okay. Put her in Iran, Turkey, Iraq, Indonesia, Malaysia, Syria (before the bombings started) and many other Muslim countries and she will be fine. This goes to show that you are seriously lacking in judgement and comprehension of how things work if you blame a religion and everyone who follow it on the acts of some individuals. Women have even been elected leaders of Muslim countries. Let's not let that get in the way of Argus's broadbrushing though....
On Guard for Thee Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 Women have even been elected leaders of Muslim countries. Let's not let that get in the way of Argus's broadbrushing though.... I met women in Kabul who taught university classes. 50 miles away that wouldn't be allowed though. Broadbrushing is what people do who don't know what else to do.
Guest Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 Women have even been elected leaders of Muslim countries. Let's not let that get in the way of Argus's broadbrushing though.... It's true, they have. They've also been elected leaders in Western countries. It doesn't mean that women have won the battle for equality in either place. I would suggest they are a lot closer in the West though, and stand to lose a lot less when seen to be striving for that equality.
cybercoma Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 The point you're missing is that there is no "Muslim countries" as a group. They're as different from each other as they are from other states.
Guest Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 What did you mean then, when you said: "Women have even been elected leaders of Muslim countries."? I was going with whatever you meant.
cybercoma Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 I meant exactly what I just explained.
Boges Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) http://egyptianstreets.com/2015/06/09/meet-the-nine-muslim-women-who-have-ruled-nations/ So other than Benazir Bhutto who was leader of Pakistan well before Jihadism become a huge global problem I don't see any other Middle East nations. Then again she has since been murdered Turkey is a NATO ally, I would expect some form of pluralism from them. Edited January 28, 2016 by Boges
Guest Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 I meant exactly what I just explained. Ah, fair enough. So did I then.
Hudson Jones Posted January 28, 2016 Author Report Posted January 28, 2016 So other than Benazir Bhutto who was leader of Pakistan well before Jihadism become a huge global problem I don't see any other Middle East nations. Are you talking Middle East or countries where the population is majority Muslim? Because these women have been elected leaders of their countries: Tansu Çiller, elected prime minister of Turkey, 1993-1996 Benazir Bhutto, elected prime minister of Pakistan 1988-1990, 1993-1996 Mame Madior Boye, appointed prime minister of Senegal, 2001-2002. Megawati Sukarnoputri, elected president of Indonesia, 2001-2004 Khaleda Zia, elected prime minister of Bangladesh, 1991-1996 and 2001-2006 Sheikh Hasina, elected prime minister of Bangladesh 2009- Roza Otunbayeva, president of Kyrgyzstan, 2010- 2011 Atifete Jahjaga, elected president of Kosovo 2011- When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Hudson Jones Posted January 28, 2016 Author Report Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) From what I stand her 'agenda' seems to be a concern that we not import vast numbers of people who hate women. Where do you get that these Syrian refugees hate women? Or Muslim men hate women? You expect people to debate your bigoted opinions that you're not able to back up with proof. Are some of you people so out of touch with reality that you're going to blame the actions of a group of guys on a religion and then try to convince people that's how Muslims are? This happened in Vancouver: Nicole went shopping in the same area again, this time with a friend. Walking down the street, she suddenly spotted the same “instructor” she had seen the day before; a young, nicely-dressed Asian guy, accompanied by two new students. Nicole assumed he’d recognize her from the other day and steer clear, but instead he sent one of his presumed students to talk to her. What Nicole describes next is downright disturbing: “He kept trying to talk, and he got close to me and my friend. I asked him to please just leave us alone, but he wouldn’t go away. He started getting really aggressive and got up in our faces, as if he were trying to start a bar fight with a man. He raised his voice and shouted ‘What, do you own this street corner?!’ I repeatedly asked him to please leave us alone, please go away, but he wouldn’t. He even threatened to follow us, shouting ‘maybe I need to go that way, maybe I’ll follow you that way.’ He just wasn’t backing down. It was very obvious that in his teachings, he was taught not to take no for an answer. I’ve changed my route home, I don’t want to walk around in my own neighborhood anymore.” As troubling as Nicole’s experience is, it is far from unique. From our research, many pick up artists (or PUAs) run bootcamps in this neighborhood, and accost dozens, if not hundreds of women in a day. Harassment of women happens on a daily basis. Muslim guys don't have a monopoly. Last year, Julien Blanc, one of the world’s most famous PUAs, was banned from several countries, including Canada, for posting videos online in which he walked down the streets in Tokyo and shoved women’s faces into his crotch. Julien claims that the videos do not reflect his teachings and were a misguided attempt at humour. OMG. WHITE ANGLO-SAXON GUYS ARE RAPISTS! Edited January 28, 2016 by Hudson Jones When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
WestCoastRunner Posted January 28, 2016 Report Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) And I think he has reacted to reasonable concerns appropriately. Where do you imagine we are getting our refugees from? Canadian planes aren't dropping into the middle of a war-zone, scooping up refugees, and flying off while the battle rages around them. Canada is getting registered refugees from camps in Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey. The male refugees we've said no to aren't in the war zone. They're not in immediate danger from either Assad or ISIS. -k Many aren't but when they get tired of staying in camps with no jobs, no future and countries discriminating against them, they will return to fight for whatever organization pays the most. This is exactly what shouldn't be encouraged but really, what alternative do they have. They will just become bitter because they have been cast aside as threats. Edited January 28, 2016 by WestCoastRunner I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
waldo Posted January 29, 2016 Report Posted January 29, 2016 http://egyptianstreets.com/2015/06/09/meet-the-nine-muslim-women-who-have-ruled-nations/ So other than Benazir Bhutto who was leader of Pakistan well before Jihadism become a huge global problem I don't see any other Middle East nations. Then again she has since been murdered Turkey is a NATO ally, I would expect some form of pluralism from them. Pakistan is not within the Middle East... if you're going to suggest it is, then so is Bangladesh. That's over 300 million Muslims right there. More pointedly, the Middle East only accounts for 20% of the world's Muslim population. Again, let me take the liberty of reinforcing MLW member cybercoma's point from a few posts back: "The point you're missing is that there is no "Muslim countries" as a group. They're as different from each other as they are from other states.".
WestCoastRunner Posted January 29, 2016 Report Posted January 29, 2016 Stop with the content-free spam please. Yes, we get it, you're disgusted every time someone dares to disagree with you. Doesn't mean you have to keep proclaiming your disgust over and over. As long as individuals are free to express their islamophobia I am free to express my disgust. I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
Army Guy Posted January 29, 2016 Report Posted January 29, 2016 No Muslim countries, are you sure, just did a google search, and shit son, there are tons pages upon pages came up.....all on the topic of Muslim countries....Now maybe google got it wrong....Or maybe my first I thought maybe it was just a western nation thing that had slotted them into that hole ....nope these same Muslim countries identify themselves as a Muslim or Islamic state....go figure.... And while it may be true that they are not all in the middle east, there is a lot of that do exist in the middle east....I will give you this each and everyone of them are different , just like every western nation is different from each other however we do share in common a lot of values and moral codes that guide our nations.....as with the Muslim countries.... what ties them together is the Islamic religion...that for these nations most part share in the same moral values taken from their religion.... We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Guest Posted January 29, 2016 Report Posted January 29, 2016 As long as individuals are free to express their islamophobia I am free to express my disgust. Most of the individuals expressing their "Islamophobia" are actually also just expressing their disgust.
Guest Posted January 29, 2016 Report Posted January 29, 2016 nope these same Muslim countries identify themselves as a Muslim or Islamic state....go figure.... Rule number one, mate. Islamic people are only allowed to identfy themselves as such if they are doing good things. Helping the sick, feeding the poor, petting puppies, etc. If they are doing bad things, then no amount of self identification is to be taken seriously. There must be another reason.
kimmy Posted January 29, 2016 Report Posted January 29, 2016 As long as individuals are free to express their islamophobia I am free to express my disgust. You could look to people like Hudson Jones and Dialamah for an example of how to express your disgust at Islamophobia while also presenting ideas for people to think about. Saying stuff like "this makes me angry!" or "I'm hungry!" or "my cat's breath smells like cat food!" doesn't do anything to increase anyone's understanding of the issue. -k (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Argus Posted January 29, 2016 Report Posted January 29, 2016 Where do you get that these Syrian refugees hate women? Or Muslim men hate women? By observing their patriarchal societies and how those society treats women. This is not rocket science. Women in Muslim countries are subjected to both state and religion sanctioned violence and discrimination, and reading the opinions of the people who live there towards gender violence. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 29, 2016 Report Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) Pakistan is not within the Middle East... if you're going to suggest it is, then so is Bangladesh. That's over 300 million Muslims right there. More pointedly, the Middle East only accounts for 20% of the world's Muslim population. Again, let me take the liberty of reinforcing MLW member cybercoma's point from a few posts back: "The point you're missing is that there is no "Muslim countries" as a group. They're as different from each other as they are from other states.". Oh good. Please list those Muslim countries which are friendly towards Jews. Please list those which have gay pride parades or where women have full equality with men. Please list any which are real democracies. Edited January 29, 2016 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
waldo Posted January 29, 2016 Report Posted January 29, 2016 Oh good. Please list those Muslim countries which are friendly towards Jews. Please list those which have gay pride parades or where women have full equality with men. Please list any which are real democracies. please list those Jewish countries which are friendly towards Muslims... didja see what I did there... dida see it? real democracies? You mean 'western styled democracies'? Stay tuned... there's been a bit of an intensity-shift with forced U.S. regime change; nothing that Trump, the NextOne, won't steer back on course!
Boges Posted January 29, 2016 Report Posted January 29, 2016 real democracies? You mean 'western styled democracies'? Stay tuned... there's been a bit of an intensity-shift with forced U.S. regime change; nothing that Trump, the NextOne, won't steer back on course! Sweet deflection.
Argus Posted January 29, 2016 Report Posted January 29, 2016 please list those Jewish countries which are friendly towards Muslims... didja see what I did there... dida see it? Attempted a pitifully sad deflection? real democracies? You mean 'western styled democracies'? Is democracy a bad thing because the Americans practice it? There are dozens of Muslim countries across the world! Surely at least one respects human rights! Right!? I mean, it's not like they're all the same... "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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