Islamophobia in Canada

[Argus]

So basically what you've said is white mans penchant for sex tourism doesn't stem from our religion. What's our excuse then?

You haven't demonstrated there is any white man's penchant for sex tourism. And I note that like other progressives who are frantic to defend a culture of violent homophobia and misogyny, you haven't actually addressed or denied what I wrote about the Muslim world.

[Argus]

I don't understand the attempt to draw a parallel between isolated child predators and large groups of men forming spontaneously in public places to harass women. I think it's a disingenuous argument.

It's not an argument at all but a desperate attempt at distraction. Progressives know that there is a inherently misogynistic culture among Muslims, and that it's brutally homophobic as well. But they don't care. Muslim countries are largely non-white, and for a progressive, no general condemnation of any non-white religion, culture, nation or group is acceptable under any circumstances, regardless of truth or evidence. Whenever one brings up the problems of these cultures they will search feverishly for anything they can throw out there to try and point the finger back at us because they can't stand to see a non-white group discussed in an unflattering way.

Now if you want to discuss a wholesale condemnation of a white group or nation, or any unflattering portion of culture or values, that's not a problem for the progressives. In fact, they revel in doing so.

[kimmy]

If you think non Muslim child predators are isolated you've never heard about the Australians that visit the Philippines annually. A US ambassador once concluded that 60% of the over 4 million Aussies who travel there do so specifically for sex, and often they prefer very young girls as well as boys. We could then go on to Thailand and then Viet Nam, but you get the picture.

Estimate based on what? Traveled there for sex... does that mean prostitutes? I can't vouch for Australia, but in Canada visiting a prostitute isn't a crime. Prostitution isn't unique to any particular culture either. It's not called the world's oldest profession for nothing. Protecting prostitutes from exploitation is an issue that is a concern for me, but that's an issue for another thread.

This just seems like a deflectionary tactic, designed to draw attention away from the issue at hand.

-k

[On Guard for Thee]

You haven't demonstrated there is any white man's penchant for sex tourism. And I note that like other progressives who are frantic to defend a culture of violent homophobia and misogyny, you haven't actually addressed or denied what I wrote about the Muslim world.

You must really have your head in the sand to not have heard of this stuff. Been going on for years. Matter of fact, I was working many years ago near Puerto Princesa when the police raided one of the major beach resorts they had been monitoring for months and arrested dozens of Aussie sex tourists, many of whom had employed children, both boys and girls.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3164917/The-red-light-city-Philippines-filled-children-fathered-Australian-sex-trade-tourists-women-pregnant-abandoning-nothing.html

[Argus]

You must really have your head in the sand to not have heard of this stuff. Been going on for years. Matter of fact, I was working

Once again, further denial, further refusal to discuss what I said, further desperate attempts to change the subject while pretending you're not defending rape and misogyny.

[On Guard for Thee]

Estimate based on what? Traveled there for sex... does that mean prostitutes? I can't vouch for Australia, but in Canada visiting a prostitute isn't a crime. Prostitution isn't unique to any particular culture either. It's not called the world's oldest profession for nothing. Protecting prostitutes from exploitation is an issue that is a concern for me, but that's an issue for another thread.

This just seems like a deflectionary tactic, designed to draw attention away from the issue at hand.

-k

I am not trying to deflect from the issue at hand. Whatever it turns out happened in Germany for instance and who did it needs to be addressed for sure. But I'm aso not willing to be hoodwinked into thinking that Muslims are the worlds ringleaders when it comes to sexual predation.

[kimmy]

Progressives know that there is a inherently misogynistic culture among Muslims, and that it's brutally homophobic as well.

I think that's overly broad, and the kind of thing that has probably pushed the thread in the wrong direction. I think that modern Muslims can leave misogynistic elements of their faith behind, just as modern Christians and Jews do.

I think that Muslims who grow up in environments where respect for women and pluralism are cultural norms adopt those values too.

However, I think the important point is that the Muslims coming here, and certainly the 1.1 million refugees Germany received in 2015, didn't grow up in environments where respect for women and plurality are cultural norms.

-k

[msj]

But I'm aso not willing to be hoodwinked into thinking that Muslims are the worlds ringleaders when it comes to sexual predation.

Agreed, the common denominator appears to be males.

[kimmy]

I am not trying to deflect from the issue at hand. Whatever it turns out happened in Germany for instance and who did it needs to be addressed for sure. But I'm aso not willing to be hoodwinked into thinking that Muslims are the worlds ringleaders when it comes to sexual predation.

"whatever it turns out happened in Germany" is that hundreds of women were assaulted in public by spontaneous groups of men, while police stood by powerless to help. The middle of Cologne turned into Tahrir Square.

Agreed, the common denominator appears to be males.

The Mayor of Cologne just gave the women of that city the advice to essentially treat the whole city as if it's one big dark alley. "stay in groups, don't go out alone, stay in public well-lit areas, avoid strange men, stay at arms length."

Are you sure that "men" is the only common denominator? Men have been in Cologne for a very long time, but it's only now that women aren't safe going out in public.

-k

[msj]

Are you sure that "men" is the only common denominator? Men have been in Cologne for a very long time, but it's only now that women aren't safe going out in public.

-k

Never said they are the only one. But clearly the most obvious one.

[dialamah]

The Mayor of Cologne just gave the women of that city the advice to essentially treat the whole city as if it's one big dark alley. "stay in groups, don't go out alone, stay in public well-lit areas, avoid strange men, stay at arms length."

Are you sure that "men" is the only common denominator? Men have been in Cologne for a very long time, but it's only now that women aren't safe going out in public.

-k

Funny, because as a Canadian woman, that's the same advice I've been getting for years, from parents, other women and law enforcement. Are men in Canada as dangerous as migrants in Germany then?

Anyway, I hope the perpetrators are caught and punished severely.

[Argus]

Whatever it turns out happened in Germany for instance and who did it needs to be addressed for sure.

Whatever it turns out happened....

Wow. Says it all right there.

'needs to be addressed' we can be sure, does not in any way, shape or form accept any condemnation of the culture and values which gives rise to that sort of behavior, or any attempt to hinder the inflow of people into the country who retain those sorts of values.

[kimmy]

Never said they are the only one. But clearly the most obvious one.

There's a second one that is also painfully obvious, and people-- including German media, and the Cologne police-- bent over backwards to try to discuss mentioning it at all.

Does being afraid to mention it make things better, or worse?

-k

[Argus]

Never said they are the only one. But clearly the most obvious one.

It feels more comfortable to you to condemn 'men' broadly, doesn't it, rather than 'Muslim men'?

We've seen not the slightest hesitation from progressives to discuss 'rape culture' in terms of universities here, as if it's some kind of universal problem, but when we see real rape culture in action and it's perpetrators appear to be non-white suddenly they shrink away from talking about culture at all...

[msj]

Well, not only do I condemn the rape culture inherent in Muslim society I also condemn the rape culture still inherent in western societies despite western societies generally being several degrees of magnitude less bad.

It is not mutually exclusive to condemn both while being thankful, for the sake of my wife, sister, mother, nieces, grandmother, and all women, that we live in a society that is not nearly as bad as those ones.

It is not hard to hold these views at the same time.

[Argus]

There's a second one that is also painfully obvious, and people-- including German media, and the Cologne police-- bent over backwards to try to discuss mentioning it at all.

In Canada, we like to talk about rape culture when someone says something misogynistic on TV or a bunch of dumb freshman recite a cheer about consent. The thing is, when those things happen, the perpetrating buffoons often lose their jobs, or are investigated by authorities, or are subject to prolonged and nationwide condemnation. Our culture, by and large, rejects the subjugation of women, which is why errant behaviour generates condemnation and scorn, not celebration — or even nonchalance. But when women get attacked in public, among witnesses, to shrugs or indifference from authorities: that’s rape culture. And apparently, it’s not just in Tahrir Square anymore.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/robyn-urback-on-the-mass-sex-attack-in-cologne-this-is-rape-culture

[Argus]

Well, not only do I condemn the rape culture inherent in Muslim society I also condemn the rape culture still inherent in western societies despite western societies generally being several degrees of magnitude less bad.

Except that 'rape culture' in western societies turns out to largely be a myth. Statistics on actual rape in universities, which are generally the focus of such a term, show that women in university are less likely to be raped than the same age group outside of them.

[kimmy]

Funny, because as a Canadian woman, that's the same advice I've been getting for years, from parents, other women and law enforcement. Are men in Canada as dangerous as migrants in Germany then?

I've gotten that advice too, but always in regard to the proverbial "dark alley". Never in regards to a place as public as a train station. Never in regard to the whole city, day or night.

I don't go down dark alleys in my home town either... but if the mayor told me that I have to treat the whole city as if it were a dark alley, I would move. I couldn't live like that.

Anyway, I hope the perpetrators are caught and punished severely.

They might get a handful, but this German legal expert thinks that convictions are unlikely.

Mrs Merkel's party is now planning to reduce the number of migrants they allow in, and discussing rules to make it easier to kick criminal migrants out of the country.

But it's too late for that. They're closing the gate after the horses have left.

-k

[msj]

There's a second one that is also painfully obvious, and people-- including German media, and the Cologne police-- bent over backwards to try to discuss mentioning it at all.

Does being afraid to mention it make things better, or worse?

-k

I agree that the police and media are wrong on this.

While the spotlight can and should shine brightly on the perpetrators it does not mean that we need to forget that mostly men commit horrible crimes each year based on factors not fully understood. As much as I would like to only blame Islam (or any religion since I dislike them all) I realize that the problem of violence goes beyond merely trying to keep others out of countries.

That's all: I'm not justifying what these creeps did. I'm not diminishing it.

If anything I would like to see the outrage at these creeps extend further to the creeps amongst us so that things like rape kits can be properly funded here on Vancouver Island, for example.

[Hal 9000]

There's a second one that is also painfully obvious, and people-- including German media, and the Cologne police-- bent over backwards to try to discuss mentioning it at all.

Does being afraid to mention it make things better, or worse?

-k

I said several pages back that these victims would be victimized twice - and that is happening as police, media and politicians seem more willing to run around saying the things that will have them both keep their jobs, and sweep this away as soon as possible.

The liberals on this board, in their denial, are a microcosm of whats happening around Europe as a whole. It's actually shameful and embarrassing to see the left wing posters deflect the obvious truth or hide from this event.

[eyeball]

Looks like the people of Cologne are as divided over this as people here as police break up and get between women, neo-Nazis and anti-fascists all protesting the various sides of this social dilemma.

Three competing rallies hit the streets as women, neo-Nazis and anti-fascists demonstrate about the new year’s assaults, police mishandling and the ensuing race hate

Story

[jacee]

/syrian-refugees-pepper-sprayed-in-vancouver/

security-screenings-implemented-to-protect-refugees-from-canadians

OTTAWA - In light of the recent attacks against muslims in Canada, the federal government will now require all citizens to be thoroughly screened for racism and tendency toward hate crimes before interacting with any the 25,000 refugees.

Great idea!! Much more screening and security needed to detect (and deport?) all the violent racists hiding among peaceful kind Canadians.

??

[Hal 9000]

I've gotten that advice too, but always in regard to the proverbial "dark alley". Never in regards to a place as public as a train station. Never in regard to the whole city, day or night.

I don't go down dark alleys in my home town either... but if the mayor told me that I have to treat the whole city as if it were a dark alley, I would move. I couldn't live like that.

They might get a handful, but this German legal expert thinks that convictions are unlikely.

Mrs Merkel's party is now planning to reduce the number of migrants they allow in, and discussing rules to make it easier to kick criminal migrants out of the country.

But it's too late for that. They're closing the gate after the horses have left.

-k

...or after the rats have gotten in.

[On Guard for Thee]

Whatever it turns out happened....

Wow. Says it all right there.

'needs to be addressed' we can be sure, does not in any way, shape or form accept any condemnation of the culture and values which gives rise to that sort of behavior, or any attempt to hinder the inflow of people into the country who retain those sorts of values.

I understand you may wish to tar everyone with the same brush who happen to fall into whatever group your phobia relates to at the time, but luckily most advanced legal systems don't allow that. If the perps in Germany are citizens they should go to jail. If they are asylum seekers then deport them. If they need to step up their screening method then do that. Becoming hysterical won't help at all.

[Argus]

/syrian-refugees-pepper-sprayed-in-vancouver/

security-screenings-implemented-to-protect-refugees-from-canadians

OTTAWA - In light of the recent attacks against muslims in Canada, the federal government will now require all citizens to be thoroughly screened for racism and tendency toward hate crimes before interacting with any the 25,000 refugees.

Great idea!! Much more screening and security needed to detect (and deport?) all the violent racists hiding among peaceful kind Canadians.

Classic. Why do you work so hard at deflecting attention away from rape culture, Jacee?