bush_cheney2004 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Being loud does not win championships. "Southern teams" have won more cups in the past 20 years than some longer established "northern" teams, and ALL teams in Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
PrimeNumber Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Being loud does not win championships. "Southern teams" have won more cups in the past 20 years than some longer established "northern" teams, and ALL teams in Canada. This is true but many of these teams have followed a very precise draft and develop model, rather than the free agent market. Although they do supplement their teams with free agents like all teams do. Chicago, Boston, Anaheim, LA... many of their best players have come from finishing at the bottom and drafting and developing. Canadian teams not winning cups comes down to more than just not attracting free agents because of weather. some of it also has a lot to do with the fact that there are far fewer Canadian teams compared to American teams. Although we had plenty of chances in the mid 2000's, just couldn't capitalize. Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
Canada_First Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 21 would be a weird number,uneven divisions. 18 could work, would make for some interesting hockey but NHL would never shrink, too much money to be made.I don't disagree. Thats why I haven't watched a game since Bettman took over. I was an avid fan but gave it all up when he moved in. Quote
Shady Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Vegas would be the best expansion city. Then move the Arizona team to Quebec City. Quote
Mighty AC Posted June 26, 2015 Author Report Posted June 26, 2015 I don't disagree. Thats why I haven't watched a game since Bettman took over. I was an avid fan but gave it all up when he moved in.The product on the ice is the best it has ever been. I encourage you to go back and watch old games, you will be amazed at how bad they look. You don't even have to go back that far, before the deterioration in speed, talent, physical play, systems, goal tending, etc. noticeably deteriorate. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
PrimeNumber Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) The product on the ice is the best it has ever been. I encourage you to go back and watch old games, you will be amazed at how bad they look. You don't even have to go back that far, before the deterioration in speed, talent, physical play, systems, goal tending, etc. noticeably deteriorate. It's true. Even as early as the late 80's is an entirely different game. Vegas would be the best expansion city. Then move the Arizona team to Quebec City. Vegas will more than likely fail like Arizona in my opinion. It's going to be hard to fill that arena night after night. Canadian travellers go to games that Canadian teams play in. They may be able to fill an arena if the Caps or Pens are into town but if a team like Florida or Philly or Minnesota or Nashville comes through. Theey'll be lucky tobreak even at the gate. Especially in a town where a massive precentage of the population works at night. That leaves very few people with expendable income to go to a hockey game on a given weekday night. Edited June 26, 2015 by PrimeNumber Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
Canada_First Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) 80s hockey was the best. Hockey today is crap by comparison. Edited June 26, 2015 by Canada_First Quote
Black Dog Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 80s hockey was the best. Hockey today is crap by comparison. LOL. Hockey players today are the best they've ever been. Watching games from the 80s is like watching a different sport. The players are so slow, the goalies are so terrible. The problem is the rules of the game haven't kept up. Quote
Boges Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Las Vegas has some history and success with minor league hockey franchises, and UNLV has a club hockey team. They certainly can't do any worse than failed NHL franchises in Canadian and northern U.S. cities. Winnipeg has its team back, Quebec should have its team back. Not sure why Minnesota lost the North Stars but they have the Wild back. What bugs me is that Bettman would rather put a team in KC or Seattle than another Toronto team or even Quebec. I'm sure he didn't want to lose Atlanta but they threw the keys on the table and the Peg was the only city that had a stadium that could host a team. 32 teams should make the conferences more fair as the East has 16 teams now. Detroit and maybe even Toronto might have to move west though to make it even again. Back to the old Norris Division. I just think a sport that's seen a niche by most Americans having 32 teams (more than both the MLB and NBA) seems overkill. But that would, hopefully, include 8 Canadian teams so the American saturation is actually less. Quote
PrimeNumber Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 80s hockey was the best. Hockey today is crap by comparison. Why do you think that? Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
Wilber Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 The thing I wonder about is making the season even longer. Assuming each team needs 82 games in order to pay the bills, adding two teams will add another 164 games to a season that is already over 9 months long when you include training camp, exhibitions and playoffs. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Wilber Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Winnipeg has its team back, Quebec should have its team back. Not sure why Minnesota lost the North Stars but they have the Wild back. What bugs me is that Bettman would rather put a team in KC or Seattle than another Toronto team or even Quebec. I'm sure he didn't want to lose Atlanta but they threw the keys on the table and the Peg was the only city that had a stadium that could host a team. Eastern teams get to play most of their games in their own time zone. Adding teams in Seattle and Portland would go a long way to evening things up out west. Vancouver, Seattle and Portland already have big rivalries going in MLS. NHL hockey would be even bigger. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Winnipeg has its team back, Quebec should have its team back. Not sure why Minnesota lost the North Stars but they have the Wild back. Owner Norm Green moved the Minnesota North Stars to Dallas because he could not get exclusive rights to a new Minneapolis arena (Target Center) and developers wanted to demolish the smallish Met Center to build the Mall of America. Norm also faced some sexual harassment legal problems if he stayed in Minnesota. Norm Greene, a Canadian developer, is still hated to this day. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Mighty AC Posted June 26, 2015 Author Report Posted June 26, 2015 The thing I wonder about is making the season even longer. Assuming each team needs 82 games in order to pay the bills, adding two teams will add another 164 games to a season that is already over 9 months long when you include training camp, exhibitions and playoffs.I don't follow. The season will still be the same length. Each team will continue to play 82 games, there will just be two more playing games concurrently. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Boges Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Eastern teams get to play most of their games in their own time zone. Adding teams in Seattle and Portland would go a long way to evening things up out west. Vancouver, Seattle and Portland already have big rivalries going in MLS. NHL hockey would be even bigger. It's not good policy to put a team in a small market just because it helps the travel times of the Western teams. But then again this is the league that thought a team in Arizona was a good idea. I'm sure support for a hockey team in Las Vegas will be strong however. I'm sure the snowbird population that make Tampa a relative success will support a Vegas team. It'll also be another show to attract tourists. Quote
BubberMiley Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 It didn't help that the North Stars had an average attendance of around 7,800 in the 1990-91 season. That would set the relocation train in motion for most any franchise. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
PrimeNumber Posted June 27, 2015 Report Posted June 27, 2015 It's not good policy to put a team in a small market just because it helps the travel times of the Western teams. But then again this is the league that thought a team in Arizona was a good idea. I'm sure support for a hockey team in Las Vegas will be strong however. I'm sure the snowbird population that make Tampa a relative success will support a Vegas team. It'll also be another show to attract tourists. Actually realistically from a "people who actually want to and like to watch hockey" point of view, Seattle and Portland will more than likely have far better success than Las Vegas. Having a higher pop. doesn't mean you have more people that want to watch hockey. Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
PrimeNumber Posted June 27, 2015 Report Posted June 27, 2015 It didn't help that the North Stars had an average attendance of around 7,800 in the 1990-91 season. That would set the relocation train in motion for most any franchise. Somehow Florida hasn't moved yet. Owner must have extremely deep pockets. Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
WestCoastRunner Posted June 27, 2015 Report Posted June 27, 2015 Actually realistically from a "people who actually want to and like to watch hockey" point of view, Seattle and Portland will more than likely have far better success than Las Vegas. Having a higher pop. doesn't mean you have more people that want to watch hockey. I think a hockey team in Seattle would create a great rivalry between the Cancucks and Seattle. I would love to see that happen. And it would be a tremendous economic benefit to both Washington and BC. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
Wilber Posted June 27, 2015 Report Posted June 27, 2015 (edited) It's not good policy to put a team in a small market just because it helps the travel times of the Western teams. But then again this is the league that thought a team in Arizona was a good idea. I'm sure support for a hockey team in Las Vegas will be strong however. I'm sure the snowbird population that make Tampa a relative success will support a Vegas team. It'll also be another show to attract tourists. Phoenix is swarming with snowbirds every winter. Hasn't helped that franchise much although Canadians can watch their home teams play there for half the cost of seeing them at home.Americans will support hockey all by themselves in Seattle and and probably Portland. The Seattle metropolitan area population is pushing 4 million. Not that small a market. Edited June 27, 2015 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Mighty AC Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) Population metrics work a little differently in Vegas than other cities. Since, the entertainment industry employs so many and it is operating 24/7, basically the entire city is on shift work. At all times about 1/3 of the population is working and 1/3 is sleeping, leaving less than you would expect to watch hockey. Plus Vegas has more entertainment competition than anywhere else on earth. Home games will likely be near full of bodies, but I expect most of the seats will be comped or severely discounted by the hotels which own the season tickets. Still, the owners may end up selling more booze, jerseys and other related merch by having a steady stream of new patrons. Edited July 3, 2015 by Mighty AC Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Mighty AC Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Posted July 3, 2015 The kickass new MGM owned Vegas arena is located just behind Excalibur and The Luxor and also across the street from New York-New York, which all happen to be MGM resorts. Even if the tickets are comped I'm sure MGM will do just fine when, after the game, 15-20k people are funneled out towards three of their Casinos. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 3, 2015 Report Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) Population metrics work a little differently in Vegas than other cities. Since, the entertainment industry employs so many and it is operating 24/7, basically the entire city is on shift work. At all times about 1/3 of the population is working and 1/3 is sleeping, leaving less than you would expect to watch hockey. This is the common perception, but the entire city is not on shift work. There are numerous common 9 to 5 services and associated employment that do not follow the 24 hour hotel and casino shift schedule. Minor league hockey has been in Las Vegas since I was a kid living there. Edited July 3, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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