Dealing With Putin

[GostHacked]

August, that seems a bit different as it was (I think you are referring to) is the Yalta Conference at the end of the war which was to discuss rebuilding of Europe. The different between that photo and Regan's photo with the Taliban , is that the Taliban were touted as good guys. The Soviets were never looked at as the good guys. But then the Soviets helped defeat Germany and Japan. But yet they are still considered 'enemies'. So they had some good in them.

The application of friend and foe to other world leaders is played fast and lose.

Edited March 6, 2015 by GostHacked

[Argus]

August, that seems a bit different as it was (I think you are referring to) is the Yalta Conference at the end of the war which was to discuss rebuilding of Europe. The different between that photo and Regan's photo with the Taliban , is that the Taliban were touted as good guys. The Soviets were never looked at as the good guys. But then the Soviets helped defeat Germany and Japan. But yet they are still considered 'enemies'. So they had some good in them.

The people in charge, notably Churchill, had few illusions about what the Soviets were, but they most certainly did portray the Soviets as our heroic allies standing shoulder to shoulder with us against the evil Nazi hordes

[eyeball]

So what you're saying is that down deep Churchill was really a Chamberlain.

Why am I not surprised?

[August1991]

So what you're saying is that down deep Churchill was really a Chamberlain.

Why am I not surprised?

WTF? Is your comment addressed to me?

[August1991]

August, that seems a bit different as it was (I think you are referring to) is the Yalta Conference at the end of the war...

The end of the war? You say this with some 60 years of hindsight. In Tehran or even Yalta in the 1940s, there was still much doubt about defeat and the end of a war.

At Potsdam, it was clear to all Germans, even the stubborn Nazis. Truman and Stalin didn't meet in Berlin because the city (Berlin) no longer existed.

====

In modern times, have we clearly defeated bin Laden and his ilk? Is this clear to our opponents, these uncivilized, backward heathens?

Edited March 7, 2015 by August1991

[Michael Hardner]

WTF? Is your comment addressed to me?

I think it's for Argus actually.

[Michael Hardner]

In modern times, have we clearly defeated bin Laden and his ilk? Is this clear to our opponents, these uncivilized, backward heathens?

That's a good question.

I'm actually more interested as to whether the core of the population in these countries are ready to put together the sacrifices to create a pluralistic and open society. The question is very much open, but to my mind there are two certainties:

- we're at a time of great change, if you look over the past few decades, with uncertain outcomes

- the era where the powers that be, acting as our proxies, assumed that the peoples of the region are inferior is well in the past

[GostHacked]

The people in charge, notably Churchill, had few illusions about what the Soviets were, but they most certainly did portray the Soviets as our heroic allies standing shoulder to shoulder with us against the evil Nazi hordes

But the US government thought they knew who the Taliban were.

[SpankyMcFarland]

A minor power like Canada should speak very quietly and choose its battles. We have no armed forces to speak of but we can still hurt these crooks in their pockets. Have Putin's buddies been sanctioned yet in Canada?

http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/01/26/canada-hints-at-further-sanctions-against-russia

Chrystia Freeland claimed recently again that nothing has been done about Yakunin and Sechin which makes us look like blustering blowhards. Unfortunately, hitting them may carry a political price in Alberta and Quebec. As in the UK, we seem to go easy on actions that will cost us money while still making a lot of noise on other fronts.

http://t.thestar.com/#/article/news/canada/2015/02/19/stephen-harpers-selective-punishment-of-vladimir-putin-tim-harper.html

If nothing has still been done, we should start some sort of petition to hit these thugs where it hurts.

Edited March 7, 2015 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

The oligarchs are the most obvious target but every supporter of Putin should be given a hard time. The CBC threads on Nemstov have been flooded with messages of support for the Big Man in dodgy English. And there are some on the right who admire his 'strength' as well as the useful idiots of the left who like anything not American.

[-TSS-]

Some people seem to think that if we only get rid of Putler then it's all going to be happy democracy in Russia. I'm sure that a lot of people thought when Lenin died that no way it is possible that anyone even worse or crueler than him could take his place.

[GostHacked]

Some people seem to think that if we only get rid of Putler then it's all going to be happy democracy in Russia. I'm sure that a lot of people thought when Lenin died that no way it is possible that anyone even worse or crueler than him could take his place.

Well, Saddam Hussein was taken out, and look at all the democracy that is happening across Iraq!

[August1991]

That's a good question.

I'm actually more interested as to whether the core of the population in these countries are ready to put together the sacrifices to create a pluralistic and open society. The question is very much open, but to my mind there are two certainties:

- we're at a time of great change, if you look over the past few decades, with uncertain outcomes

- the era where the powers that be, acting as our proxies, assumed that the peoples of the region are inferior is well in the past

Great change?

On the contrary, I tend to be with Obama: we're mopping up, and it's no time to do anything stupid. But unlike Obama, I think we need courage.

In the summer of 1940, the civilized world faced a grave threat. After 1945, after Hitler and Imperial Japan, we in the West won the Cold War. Good Americans fought in Vietnam and America eventually defeated the Soviet Union.

=====

Now, how do we deal with these backward, medieval idiots?

Edited March 9, 2015 by August1991

[eyeball]

Well, we could start by apologizing but its probably to late for that.

Like I've said before if Islamists are looking for radicalizing material to show wannabes they should just show them forums like this one.

[Michael Hardner]

On the contrary, I tend to be with Obama: we're mopping up, and it's no time to do anything stupid. But unlike Obama, I think we need courage.

When I say "great change" I'm talking bigger picture than just northern Iraq. I'm talking about Yemen, Tunisia, Egypt and so on. Maybe we're mopping up in Iraq, but I doubt it. In Tunisia, we're watching a new and fragile democracy. In Yemen, waiting for a revolution. Everywhere is different, but the underlying forces are the same.

In the summer of 1940, the civilized world faced a grave threat. After 1945, after Hitler and Imperial Japan, we in the West won the Cold War. Good Americans fought in Vietnam and America eventually defeated the Soviet Union.

=====

Now, how do we deal with these backward, medieval idiots?

They will lose eventually. How to win the peace is the trickier problem, which we failed in Iraq last time around.

[LemonPureLeaf]

Before wwii the west kissed Nazi ass just like we're doing with Islam and Russia. WWIII is coming soon.

[eyeball]

WW3? Oh right you must mean the 3rd mission.

This is all starting to look more like some stupid Hobbit's quest.

Maybe a prequel would be better.

[Argus]

So what you're saying is that down deep Churchill was really a Chamberlain.

Why am I not surprised?

No, that is not what I'm saying. I don't imagine anyone sane or honest would believe that was what I was saying either.

[Shady]

Putin has disappeared for what is now 10 days.

[cybercoma]

Putin has disappeared for what is now 10 days.

Rumour is he was in Switzerland for the birth of his illegitimate daughter, but that's not from credible sources. Edited March 15, 2015 by cybercoma

[Rue]

My rumour is better-he has herpes and is waiting for the cold sore to clear up on his mouth.

That or he is hiding from Ukrainians.

[overthere]

Rumours?

Bah!!!

The truth: he is getting an extra 4" added to his height, to bring him to 5'6". It involves breaking legs. His own legs, in a novel twist.

[cybercoma]

That novel is Gattaca.

[August1991]

Well, we could start by apologizing but its probably to late for that.

Apologising for what?

Cairo and Tehran were civilised places in 1950 and even 1975. Now, Tehran has become a medieval hellhole. And Cairo is on the edge of a knife.

=====

Eyeball, you probably blame America, or rich white people, oppressors, dominant white guys, for the Seven Years War and even the Punic Wars too.

Sadly. some of these Medieval idiots have become sophisticated enough to adopt your beliefs.

When I say "great change" I'm talking bigger picture than just northern Iraq. I'm talking about Yemen, Tunisia, Egypt and so on. Maybe we're mopping up in Iraq, but I doubt it. In Tunisia, we're watching a new and fragile democracy. In Yemen, waiting for a revolution. Everywhere is different, but the underlying forces are the same.

They will lose eventually. How to win the peace is the trickier problem, which we failed in Iraq last time around.

I would like to respond, in the context of my post above, but this forum software does not allow me. It once did. Edited March 21, 2015 by Charles Anthony
posts merged

[Charles Anthony]

The 2 posts have been merged. If that was not your intention, please clarify.

I would like to respond, in the context of my post above, but this forum software does not allow me. It once did.

Au contraire.

The forum software allows you to do it easier with the multi-quote feature.

I still find it easier to copy-paste the old-fashioned way which the software still allows.