Bryan Posted October 27, 2014 Report Posted October 27, 2014 So ... playing devil's advocate here ... unlike the SCoC says ... some people can consent to assault causing bodily harm ... for money ... but not for BDSM sex. Hmmm ... No. You have to be deliberately and actively attempting NOT to get hurt. If you stand there and let someone hit you, the ref has to stop it. You do not have the right to consent to just let someone hurt you -- in any setting. You probably SHOULD have that right, but under the current laws, you don't. Quote
jacee Posted October 27, 2014 Report Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) No. You have to be deliberately and actively attempting NOT to get hurt. If you stand there and let someone hit you, the ref has to stop it. You do not have the right to consent to just let someone hurt you -- in any setting. You probably SHOULD have that right, but under the current laws, you don't.Oh. Well that would spice up the bdsm ! Er ... I guess only bdm would be legal then ... not submission. Masochism though ... not allowed? Kinda hard to hit yourself while trying hard to avoid getting hit! . Edited October 28, 2014 by jacee Quote
guyser Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 The boxing match I'd like to see is Billy Bob Thornton vs Gomeshi, winner takes on Doug Ford in a cage match. World Class Entertainment , all the time, in Toronto. We aim to please. Quote
msj Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 If Gomeshi did something illegal, maybe you could link to the charges laid or convictions found or.... . CBC may have to use some hoickey revenue to pay off Gomeshi for wrongful dismissal. Oh wait there isn't any hockey revenue. No problem, taxpayers won't mind coughing up. I think you may be confusing administration of justice with "the law." Important distinction. Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
msj Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 IOW, according to you, a man should be free to beat up his partner during sex as long as he can bully her in to claiming it was "consensual". One would have to pretty dim not to understand why "consenting to violence during sex" should be abhorred even if it is tolerated. Bingo, and we have a winner. Hence why the law is such as it is per my links provided in previous posts.... BDSM: do at your own risk - but isn't that why it's so much fun? It's even more dangerous now! Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Scotty Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 I can't speak to who is lying and who is telling truth, but the reports from the Star from the 2 women seem completely unrelated to the talk of him being involved in BDSM. They say that when they came in the door he punched them and choked them. I know somewhat about BDSM and that sounds like nothing more than common assault. I don't believe a closed fist is ever used during BDSM, certainly not in anything I've ever seen or heard of. Ghomeshi's BDSM is described as role playing and 'mild 50 shades of gray' but a closed fist would be very extreme. The essence of the 'sm' portion of 'bdsm' is to cause pain but no harm and a closed fist causes harm, or at least threatens it. Some people are a fan of choking during orgasm, but to choke someone when they step in the door seems like something related to psychiatric problems, not sexual fetishes. Dominance and submission games generally involve words, more than actions. You 'dominate' by force of personality, not by physically overpowering someone. I've seen nothing described which I would identify as relating to bdsm or Dom/sub lifestyles - consensual or not. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Moonlight Graham Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 $50 million is pretty hilarious. If Peter Mansbridge only makes $80,500. What does Jian get? Minimum wage? No way Mansbridge only makes 80k. Imagine all the US and private Canadian news networks offering him bigger money. CBC says over 700 CBC employees make over 100k, so I'm sure one of the top dogs like Peter is one of them. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Hal 9000 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 So ultimately the victim has to prove that she did not consent when the accused says that she did. And of course I wouldn't prefer it otherwise. Just because I make an observation about the way things are, doesn't mean I think we should upend the foundation of presumed innocence in the justice system. Don't be ridiculous. I'm just pointing out how it favours the accused in these cases. I think what they call that is; "innocent until proven guilty". I know that we should simply lock up every man who has a woman make an accusation against them, and once feminists get their way, we will, until then we just have live with equal rights. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
jacee Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) I think what they call that is; "innocent until proven guilty". I know that we should simply lock up every man who has a woman make an accusation against them, and once feminists get their way, we will, until then we just have live with equal rights. Hmmm .... oh never mind. :/oh ... ok ... stfu too. maybe grow up too. . Edited October 28, 2014 by jacee Quote
Boges Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 No way Mansbridge only makes 80k. Imagine all the US and private Canadian news networks offering him bigger money. CBC says over 700 CBC employees make over 100k, so I'm sure one of the top dogs like Peter is one of them. Oh I know. I bet he makes close to 7 figures. It's just hilarious they want us to believe that's all he makes. Quote
msj Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 Nice appeal to authority. Has anyone ever been successfully prosecuted as a result of consensual BDSM activity? I'll hang up and listen. Appears to be yes: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._v._J.A. Check out the ruling: http://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/7942/index.do Consent appears to be complicated and it gets even more complicated when it involves unconsciousness.... Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
ReeferMadness Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 Some people think kicking a dog is a sign of a perverted individual others see consensus S&M is a sign of a perverted individual. It really makes no difference that you think one way because we are talking about opinions - not facts. And everyone is entitled to their opinion. So, the question here is not what you personally think is perverted - (in fact I prefer not to think about it). It's about the law. The law allows for a certain degree of rough sex, providing that it is consensual and nobody gets injured. The puppy is unable to give consent. And I'm sorry if what people do in the privacy of their bedrooms offends you - but it's none of your business. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
August1991 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) After a quick read through this thread, before my comment: What a bunch of prudes north of the border at the CBC, eh ? Marv Albert was actually convicted of "rough sex" assault charges, only to be rehired by NBC two years later. C'mon Canada...loosen up ! Our banks are always solvent; yours less so. Our prudishness (and being a bilingual state) make us more civil and sustainable. Yes I agree. He seemed to pick on younger adoring fans, not choose equal consenting partners. Too bad, so sad. Goodbye Jian. . In my opinion, a key point. In as much as we're talking about criminal acts sure. But when it comes to being a pervy d-bag, Jian is guilty as can be.Is that the issue? His sexual practices? ***** IMHO, the entire question should turn on whether he abused his position/status. The CBC made him a "celebrity". These young women were not interested in meeting/sleeping with Jian Gomeshi - they wanted to meet/sleep with a "celebrity". We should make a distinction between the person - and the position. There is Stephen Harper the man, and there is Stephen Harper the PM. The State has given status and importance and "celebrity" to people like Gomeshi and Harper which otherwise they would not have. Such status is a basic trust and should not be abused. Where is Pee-Wee Herman now? Edited October 28, 2014 by August1991 Quote
ReeferMadness Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 I can't speak to who is lying and who is telling truth, That's it. Full stop. We'll never know who's lying. Or, more likely, there is a some truth telling and truth bending on all sides. It's already taken its toll on Ghomeshi. Hope everyone manages to heal. And maybe learn something. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Hal 9000 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 Hmmm .... oh never mind. :/ oh ... ok ... stfu too. maybe grow up too. . Obviously, Im using a certain amount of hyperbole. But, I'm really tired of hearing how we should just accept everything without question what a woman says about her ex. Sexual abuse is not taken lightly, but I'm pretty sure there's also been men's lives torn apart from lies. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
jacee Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) Obviously, Im using a certain amount of hyperbole. But, I'm really tired of hearing how we should just accept everything without question what a woman says about her ex.Oh I think there's plenty of questioning going on. Sexual abuse is not taken lightly, but I'm pretty sure there's also been men's lives torn apart from lies.And women's lives torn apart by men's lies perhaps?"pretty sure" you need to provide some evidence to back that up too. . Edited October 28, 2014 by jacee Quote
cybercoma Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 I think what they call that is; "innocent until proven guilty".Are you even reading my posts? Quote
cybercoma Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 Appears to be yes: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._v._J.A. Check out the ruling: http://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/7942/index.do Consent appears to be complicated and it gets even more complicated when it involves unconsciousness.... That's about consciousness, not necessarily BDSM. The argument was that someone can't consent to being struck during sex. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 But, I'm really tired of hearing how we should just accept everything without question what a woman says about her ex.Good thing I didn't say that then. Perhaps you should stop creating strawmen and actually read what people write. Quote
Hal 9000 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 Are you even reading my posts? "So ultimately the victim has to prove that she did not consent when the accused says that she did." Ok, I thought this was to imply that women/victim should be unquestioned in their stories - If you meant something else, my bad! Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
msj Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 That's about consciousness, not necessarily BDSM. The argument was that someone can't consent to being struck during sex. Perhaps your argument was about "being struck." Mine was focused on BDSM and the law for which it appears that few people actually have a grasp on - especially Jian. Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
cybercoma Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 "So ultimately the victim has to prove that she did not consent when the accused says that she did." Ok, I thought this was to imply that women/victim should be unquestioned in their stories - If you meant something else, my bad! No. Of course not. The victim has to prove that he raped her, which often entails proving she did not consent. Proving a negative is impossible, which is why the judicial deck is stacked against victims of sexual assault and rape. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 Perhaps your argument was about "being struck."You were responding to a line of debate that began with Bryan saying you can't legally consent to being punched in the face. Quote
Black Dog Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 No. Of course not. The victim has to prove that he raped her, which often entails proving she did not consent. Proving a negative is impossible, which is why the judicial deck is stacked against victims of sexual assault and rape. Even more so in cases where the perpetrator (sorry: alleged perpetrator) is rich and famous. Quote
Boges Posted October 28, 2014 Report Posted October 28, 2014 There are forensic ways to prove sex wasn't consensual but you'd have to go right to the police and get a rape kit done. Quote
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