The_Squid Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) There are a lot of stories in the bible and the koran which can be bloodthirsty. But did Jesus Christ ever wipe out towns and villages? Did he have slaves? Did he take little girls to his bed? Did he cut people's heads off? Muhammad did all these things. Doesn't Jesus = God? Therefore, God, prior to transforming into Jesus, destroyed entire cities, men, women and children; condoning the rape of the women and the taking of slaves. Comparing the two "holy" books to see which one is worse is not going to be productive as both contain very vile passages. Edited October 20, 2014 by The_Squid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) I was going to say Jesus wiped most of humanity out in a single flood. Edited October 20, 2014 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 The bible was written on the life of an itinerant prophet who preached the love of God. That's part of the bible. Did he ever have a job? The Koran is the tale of a warrior prince A warrior... like David ? There are a lot of stories in the bible and the koran which can be bloodthirsty. But did Jesus Christ ever wipe out towns and villages? Did he have slaves? Did he take little girls to his bed? Did he cut people's heads off? Muhammad did all these things. Lots of people in the bible did bad things. You don't understand how those who worship Jesus and those who worship Muhammad would have different philosophies of life? I think that reasonable people are able to discern between ancient books and modern morality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Doesn't Jesus = God? Therefore, God, prior to transforming into Jesus, destroyed entire cities, men, women and children; condoning the rape of the women and the taking of slaves. Comparing the two "holy" books to see which one is worse is not going to be productive as both contain very vile passages. God didn't transform into anything. Who raised you anyway? God, as presented in all the religions I'm aware of is this mysterious being whose purpose we cannot know. The bible is never presented as the word of Jesus, or the word of God. The Koran is. Jesus and Muhammad are presented as the model for people to live their lives. And as I said, a model who is a warrior prince who converts people by the sword and takes slaves (and rapes them) presents quite a different model than Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 I think that reasonable people are able to discern between ancient books and modern morality. Unfortunately, your view of what constitutes reasonable is not the same as that of devoted followers of any religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) God didn't transform into anything. Who raised you anyway? God, as presented in all the religions I'm aware of is this mysterious being whose purpose we cannot know. The bible is never presented as the word of Jesus, or the word of God. The Koran is. Jesus and Muhammad are presented as the model for people to live their lives. And as I said, a model who is a warrior prince who converts people by the sword and takes slaves (and rapes them) presents quite a different model than Jesus. "Transformed into Jesus" is my non-religious, slightly facetious version... Jesus is considered to be God. But to ask me "who raised me anyway" and then to proceed to claim that "no one presents the bible as the word of God" is actually quite hilarious. I think you must have meant "no one, other than Christians, represent the bible as the word of God". LOL Edited October 20, 2014 by The_Squid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Unfortunately, your view of what constitutes reasonable is not the same as that of devoted followers of any religion. Any religion ? Wow. Your view is shifting slightly. I almost agree with you here, except that there are religious people who are quite reasonable. Ben Stein comes to mind. These are people that can hold two contradictory views and resolve them... somehow. ie. God created the earth, and also the universe works according to the laws of science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carepov Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 I'm speaking of their demonstrably backward cultures and values as a people. You are over-generalizing by grouping over 1 billion people into one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carepov Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Ironic, I know. However, with religion people feel they are following the wishes of a magic, all knowing, creator. That's what makes the religious influence so powerful and yet so ridiculous. As always, the problem lies in our granting these beliefs elevated status and consideration. Even worse over-gernaralization as you lump over 6 billion religious people into one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 However, with religion people feel they are following the wishes of a magic, all knowing, creator. That's what makes the religious influence so powerful and yet so ridiculous. As always, the problem lies in our granting these beliefs elevated status and consideration. Even worse over-gernaralization as you lump over 6 billion religious people into one.Stating that the religious follow the wishes of their god is an "over-generalization"?! Really? Anyway, my point was simple. Believing that a god states that homosexuals are an abomination is a far more powerful influence than locker room talk or Eminem lyrics. I followed that up by stating that the root problem lies in treating religious ideas as something special or as having increased importance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carepov Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Stating that the religious follow the wishes of their god is an "over-generalization"?! Really? Anyway, my point was simple. Believing that a god states that homosexuals are an abomination is a far more powerful influence than locker room talk or Eminem lyrics. I followed that up by stating that the root problem lies in treating religious ideas as something special or as having increased importance. Yes. Most religious people do not beleive that their god states that homosexuals are an abomination. IMO, most religious people may treat religious ideas as something special - but only in the realm of the meta-physical. I.e the purpose of life, what hapens after we die, the origins of the universe, etc... Otherwise, in day-to-day religious people as as tolerant, competent and rational as the non-religious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Yes. Most religious people do not beleive that their god states that homosexuals are an abomination. IMO, most religious people may treat religious ideas as something special - but only in the realm of the meta-physical. I.e the purpose of life, what hapens after we die, the origins of the universe, etc... Otherwise, in day-to-day religious people as as tolerant, competent and rational as the non-religious. I didn't state that most religious people believe their god hates homosexuals, it depends on the brand of religion. Millions upon millions of people belong to Christian or Islamic sects or follow mega-pastors and televangelists that teach them that homosexuality is a sin. As stated, I believe the religious influence on homophobia to be far more powerful than sources like sports or rap lyrics because of the phony elevated power we grant religious ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Any religion ? Wow. Your view is shifting slightly. I almost agree with you here, except that there are religious people who are quite reasonable. Ben Stein comes to mind. These are people that can hold two contradictory views and resolve them... somehow. ie. God created the earth, and also the universe works according to the laws of science.Ben Stein is a terrible example of a reasonable theist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 You are over-generalizing by grouping over 1 billion people into one.1.6 billion to be precise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Ben Stein is a terrible example of a reasonable theist. I literally laughed out loud when I read MH's comment about Stein... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Ben Stein is a terrible example of a reasonable theist. How so ? He's definitely not an idiot. I haven't read a single religious column he's written, though. (Why would I?) It seems like I missed something, based on the reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 How so ? He's definitely not an idiot. I haven't read a single religious column he's written, though. (Why would I?) It seems like I missed something, based on the reaction. He created a documentary called Expelled alleging a scientific conspiracy to shutdown the idea of intelligent design. His arguments range from evolution is bogus to 'there's a gap therefor god did it'. Plus, he delivers it all in that rage inducing, monotone, nasal voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carepov Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 I didn't state that most religious people believe their god hates homosexuals, it depends on the brand of religion. Millions upon millions of people belong to Christian or Islamic sects or follow mega-pastors and televangelists that teach them that homosexuality is a sin. As stated, I believe the religious influence on homophobia to be far more powerful than sources like sports or rap lyrics because of the phony elevated power we grant religious ideas. You stated that religious people follow the wishes of a magic creator. You also seem to be ignoring the positive influences of religious beleifs and values that comat homophobia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 He created a documentary called Expelled alleging a scientific conspiracy to shutdown the idea of intelligent design. His arguments range from evolution is bogus to 'there's a gap therefor god did it'. Plus, he delivers it all in that rage inducing, monotone, nasal voice. Well, it didn't sound that bad to me. I disagree, of course, that (primarily) theological arguments should be mentioned in schools, but he had some good points. There is some doubt as to how life originated... much less so about evolution. But... thread... is... drifting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) You stated that religious people follow the wishes of a magic creator.You don't think the religious generally follow the believed wishes of their god? You also seem to be ignoring the positive influences of religious beleifs and values that comat homophobia.We seem to ignore the fact that Hamas also feeds children. Since, the main opposition to equal rights for homosexuals has been religion, I think the bad far outweighs the good on this one. Edited October 22, 2014 by Mighty AC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Well, it didn't sound that bad to me. I disagree, of course, that (primarily) theological arguments should be mentioned in schools, but he had some good points. There is some doubt as to how life originated... much less so about evolution. But... thread... is... drifting... It is drifting so I'll refrain from commenting on the quality of the arguments made, but you can watch the film in its entirety here if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carepov Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 You don't think the religious generally follow the believed wishes of their god? We seem to ignore the fact that Hamas also feeds children. Since, the main opposition to equal rights for homosexuals has been religion, I think the bad far outweighs the good on this one. No. Whether religious or not most people generally lead their lives according to their own wishes and beliefs. Again, not religion. Some people use religious arguments to oppose equal rights. Critisize the arguments - yes. Critisize the specific people making these aguments - yes. Smear all religious people - no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 No. Whether religious or not most people generally lead their lives according to their own wishes and beliefs. Again, not religion. Some people use religious arguments to oppose equal rights. Critisize the arguments - yes. Critisize the specific people making these aguments - yes. Smear all religious people - no. No, I think religion has a major impact on beliefs. Also, I think it's fair to criticize the source of the arguments be it Eminem lyrics or a book apparently inspired by a magic man. I also think it's fair to criticize belief in magic men and point out that some followers of magic men are more dangerous than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 .. Otherwise, in day-to-day religious people as as tolerant, competent and rational as the non-religious. I would have to disagree with this statement. Many, many religious people I meet from various sects, Jehovah's Witness, Born Again, Baptists, etc are not tolerant and are not rational at all. It's actually pretty scary having conversations with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Well, it didn't sound that bad to me. I disagree, of course, that (primarily) theological arguments should be mentioned in schools, but he had some good points. There is some doubt as to how life originated... much less so about evolution.But... thread... is... drifting...he thinks there's a widespread and pernicious conspiracy to keep intelligent design out of scientific journals...it's not just about schools. This isn't a good point that he has. It's an immensely obtuse point. But yeah. Thread drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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