On Guard for Thee Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 What an ignorant thing to say. This might be a lot to ask.... but before you type stupid things, do a Google search. Or even Bing!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Christians Apparently Shady hasn't traveled much. I met lots of Christians in Egypt. Matter of fact, once when I checked into a hotel in Cairo and signed my name, the man swing the paper around, looked at my last name and remarked that I must be a Coptic Christian, which I'm not. But that's beside the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 By 'support' you mean what, exactly? The same thing it means when it applies to terrorists. The Russians and Chinese do the same thing there we do. Yep, if you've seen one super-rogue you've seen them all. And yet... here's the funny thing. Despite the fact they've been doing it for at least several generations, and are more active now than ever, nobody out there seems to be trying to blow them up. Nobody blames them for anything. Nobody is trying to fly planes into Russian buildings or shooting random Chinese. This despite the fact both countries have home grown Muslim minorities who they murder, torture and imprison with a fair degree of regularity. Of course they're being attacked they're just not the huge drama queens we are about it. Would you care to speculate on why that is? Good question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Of course they're being attacked they're just not the huge drama queens we are about it. You mean they're being attacked invisibly, and nobody ever notices their planes blowing up or crazy Arabs cutting off Russian and Chinese guys' heads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting everything the West has done in the middle east going back through the years is all sweetness and light. We act in a self-interested fashion just like everyone else. There it is. Drill for the nerve and you eventually hit it every time. This is why I mock the weight of sentiment that's applied to our celebration of sacrifice at this festive time. I'm pretty sure our grandfather's didn't sacrifice their lives in the interest of other's so their grandsons could sacrifice our principles in their own. Maybe some of the misguided right wing one's did but the really dedicated right wing one's were probably safe at home directing all the sacrificing that was going on. Speaking of sacrifice, why is Remembrance Day a paid statutory holiday? I don't get that. Must be a lefty thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 You mean they're being attacked invisibly, and nobody ever notices their planes blowing up or crazy Arabs cutting off Russian and Chinese guys' heads? No, I mean nobody notices because the Russians and Chinese don't freak out as much when it happens. They're better at being ass-holes, it's what they do best. We react like little cry-babies in comparison. So in addition to no longer having the ethical and moral background of our grandfathers we also lack the pagan ethos of the sorts of dictators they fought. If there's any reason we're attacked more often it's because we're so pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Do you think support for dictatorships is/was limited to the "right wing" ? Not strictly, just mostly. I think it's arguable that within the old so-called left-wing dictatorships that the most egregious regimes were so egregious because they were run by the most conservative which is also to say the least liberal people within those societies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 No, I mean nobody notices because the Russians and Chinese don't freak out as much when it happens. Er, Russia has killed far more people in fighting its own brand of Islamic terrorists than the West ever has or likely ever will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Not strictly, just mostly. I think it's arguable that within the old so-called left-wing dictatorships that the most egregious regimes were so egregious because they were run by the most conservative which is also to say the least liberal people within those societies. This is not very clear and certainly not supported by history. It is a very mistaken notion to think that the "left wing" is/was any kinder or gentler in support of dictatorships. Definitely not mostly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) This is not very clear and certainly not supported by history. It is a very mistaken notion to think that the "left wing" is/was any kinder or gentler in support of dictatorships. Definitely not mostly.... Well, it's very clear when you are hard set in the "left wing" or the "right wing". If you are an ideological member of either side, then from your perspective, clearly the other side is evil, and dictatorships are evil, therefore dictatorships = "the other wing". This can be clearly seen in the thread we had here about Nazism, where every "left wing" poster said that Nazism was a right-wing ideology, and every "right wing" poster said that Nazism was a left-wing ideology. Of course the reality is that there is a lot more than one dimension necessary if one tries to classify all the possible political ideologies. Nazism of course falls nowhere on the current Western spectrum of left to right. It is a mixture of both current left and right wing ideas, along with a heavy dose of authoritarianism which would appall both left and ring wing individuals. Edited November 12, 2014 by Bonam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Well, it's very clear when you are hard set in the "left wing" or the "right wing". If you are an ideological member of either side, then from your perspective, clearly the other side is evil, and dictatorships are evil, therefore dictatorships = "the other wing". Hardly...just wanted to point out that support for dictatorships is not limited to any "wing" at all...not even mostly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) Hardly...just wanted to point out that support for dictatorships is not limited to any "wing" at all...not even mostly. My post was more a commentary on eyeball's post than on yours. His statement was that "left wing dictatorships" were only really bad in that they were actually run by "right wing" people. And eyeball, though he does not like to self-identify as a partisan, is clearly a "far left" poster in terms of his overall views. Therefore since "the right" is bad, and dictatorships are bad, therefore dictatorships are right wing in his mind. Edited November 12, 2014 by Bonam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 My post was more a commentary on eyeball's post than on yours. Yes...I think we agree on that. I don't know why this member (or others) lose objectivity in the case of "dictatorships"....it costs them nothing to acknowledge the wider spectrum and historical record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Yes...I think we agree on that. I don't know why this member (or others) lose objectivity in the case of "dictatorships" I don't know that members lose objectivity on the topic of dictatorships. Rather, most posters don't have much objectivity to lose to begin with. And that applies of course not only to members here but people everywhere. Objectivity is a hard thing to achieve. I certainly strive to be as objective as I can but I'm sure I also have a few topics where that ideal is not achieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 I don't know that members lose objectivity on the topic of dictatorships. Rather, most posters don't have much objectivity to lose to begin with.... I would hope to give most credit for at least trying...until proving that they can't. Long ago we established that many nations and regions that suffered from "western" sponsored dictatorships did not spawn a backlash of violent terrorism. Further still, we can demonstrate terrorism even in a free nation / society for a host of reasons. It is too simplistic to point at "dictatorships" sponsored by the west as the root cause of Islamic terrorism, including the 1953 CIA backed coup in Iran. It's just intellectually lazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 I would hope to give most credit for at least trying...until proving that they can't. How about member "let's leave the poor Nazis alone"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 How about member "let's leave the poor Nazis alone"? Maybe it was daring humour...like Mel Brooks' film...The Producers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 You guys are as usual, face palm hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Let's move on from the personal here... we're drifting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) There it is. Drill for the nerve and you eventually hit it every time. This is why I mock the weight of sentiment that's applied to our celebration of sacrifice at this festive time. I'm pretty sure our grandfather's didn't sacrifice their lives in the interest of other's so their grandsons could sacrifice our principles in their own. What principals have we sacrificed? If we support a dictator against nasty rebels who would be even nastier in power, what are we doing which is morally wrong? As I've said before, it would be great to replace the Saudis with some peaceful, democratic government, but that just ain't happening. A rebellion in SA would unquestionably result in a government more like Afghanistan's Taliban Edited November 12, 2014 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 No, I mean nobody notices because the Russians and Chinese don't freak out as much when it happens. They're better at being ass-holes, it's what they do best. We react like little cry-babies in comparison. The idea the Russians wouldn't react if people were hijacking their planes or blowing them up is quite frankly incredible. The difference between them and us is that while the US would try to find the people responsible and send in a SEAL team the Russians would simply incinerate the entire town they came from. Russia is not a 'turn the other cheek' kind of country. The reason you don't hear about attacks on Russia and China is that the people in the middle east feel generally friendly towards them, despite their 'meddling'. So maybe you need to look for other causes of the terrorism and hatred of the west there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Both of you are trying to explain causation that can't be explained to anyone's satisfaction. A fruitless exercise. How's this for causation. Poverty breeds ignorance which allows fanatics to preach hatred. Want to know where next generation's terrorists will come from? From places like this. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30005278 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Far fewer posters would argue that point, Argus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 My post was more a commentary on eyeball's post than on yours. His statement was that "left wing dictatorships" were only really bad in that they were actually run by "right wing" people. No, I clearly said if they were run by conservative people. And eyeball, though he does not like to self-identify as a partisan, is clearly a "far left" poster in terms of his overall views. Actually I'm the farthest thing from a committed party loyalist of any stripe. More an anarchist if anything. Therefore since "the right" is bad, and dictatorships are bad, therefore dictatorships are right wing in his mind. Dictatorships are authoritarian and for what ever reason conservatives seem to have a really unhealthy affinity for authority, they just can't seem to get enough of it, especially social conservatives. The right is just really stupid because it can't seem to get enough of conservatism, especially of the social variety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Pol Pot was a Marxist. Is that still left wing or has the left redefined that on the political spectrum too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Both Political spectrums end up actually meeting at the fringes. It's less a spectrum than a circle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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