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This week in Islam


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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Case in point: Islam says that lying to save one's life is acceptable.  You,  Argus, DoP and others use this out-of-context to accuse Muslims of lying about anything you don't want to hear or goes against your pre-conceived notions of Islam and Muslims. 

It isn't that narrowly defined. It isn't simply to save your life or if you have a 'gun to your head'.   You can lie about your beliefs if you feel that you might be persecuted for them. For example, Marocc might believe all Jews and gays should be killed and that Muslim law should be put in place in Canada, but if he says so he could be persecuted, so he can lie about his beliefs since he is in the land of unbelievers.

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

You can lie about your beliefs if you feel that you might be persecuted for them. For example, Marocc might believe all Jews and gays should be killed and that Muslim law should be put in place in Canada, but if he says so he could be persecuted, so he can lie about his beliefs since he is in the land of unbelievers.

Source, please — no Shia source please.

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1 hour ago, scribblet said:

Exactly.   Most people can't understand this ideology of rape and  murder that's so prevalent and common in one culture;  yes it happens in other cultures, but not to the extent that it is so  prevalent in Islam.  Yet, we're supposed to integrate these people here, by allowing them to cross borders illegally?    Just look at Europe where mass migration has caused huge problems where notably in Sweden they are having huge problems with integrating them. 

  https://www.thelocal.de/20190731/refugees-receives-classes-on-sexual-consent-in-berlin

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/germans-shaken-by-series-of-violent-immigrant-attacks-1.3952832

From your first link - it's odd that the German authorities created this education program in response to events that some here claim never happened and are not happening.  Or if they ARE happening, we should ignore the events and not talk about them because talking about them (and not the actual Muslims doing the raping) is "inciting hatred of Muslims" :

 

Quote

 

Germany's integration commissioner Annette Widmann-Mauz has called for such sex education classes to be more widely offered to refugees, following a gang rape case in Freiburg, in which 10 of 11 suspects are refugees.  

Several high-profile rape cases committed by migrants have stoked a backlash against the mass influx of a million asylum seekers to Germany since 2015.

Mass assaults by recent migrants in Cologne on New Year's Eve 2015-2016, and a rape-murder in 2016 by an Afghan refugee, have been seized on by the far-right in its push against Chancellor Angela Merkel's decision to let in the newcomers.

In Germany, there was a 15-percent rise in sex crimes committed by foreigners in 2018, 6,046 offences compared to 5,258 in 2017, according to federal statistics.

The increase is largely due to stricter legislation since 2016, which made it easier to prosecute perpetrators of sex-related crimes.

But they also underline the challenge of integrating large numbers of migrants, a big proportion of whom are young, single men from countries which would view Western norms as surprisingly liberal.

In Norway, migrants were compelled to undergo similar courses between 2013 and 2015, after several rape cases involving refugees.

 

 

Edited by Goddess
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On 11/25/2019 at 6:49 PM, Michael Hardner said:

Pew polls of American Muslims show a lot of moderation and patriotism. 

 

16 minutes ago, Shady said:

I wasn't referring to American Muslims.

I suppose this exposes the problems with multiculturalism.  The American system tends towards more integration for immigrants, with less emphasis on them retaining previous cultural values.  At least, that's what I understand from the "melting pot" concept.

It seems to work better.

There might not be a need for so many "rape is wrong" classes.

Edited by bcsapper
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1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

There might not be a need for so many "rape is wrong" classes.

Islamophobe logic.

"The refugees all have been taught at home women can be raped and it's okay."

state offers free education relating to sex. Islamophobics can find nothing wrong with the education or those receiving it.

"They're offering to teach the uneducated illiteral refugees about sex! They teach that to my kids in school but oh no, they teach it to refugees. That's so.... so..... I don't know what is wrong with it, but it's just soo......" *faints

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None of that makes sense other than yeah, many of the refugees/migrants do feel that it's okay to rape women, especially' western infidels who are only whores anyway.'  

Normal people would not find anything wrong with teaching said refugees/migrants that it's not okay to rape and assault any woman and any normal person would be please that at least the gov't is addressing the issue of migrant assault and rape.   Maybe you don't understand the difference between the sex education they teach kids in schools and the type offered by the gov't which is definitely teaching uneducated, illiterates, (you got that right) that it is NOT okay to rape and assault women. 

 

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Fortunately for the U.K. these Islamic terrorists were caught but wait - M15 must be having an out break of 'Islamophobia' what else could it be.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/dec/30/counter-terror-police-arrest-five-men-in-sites-across-england

Counter-terrorism police have arrested five men over concerns about a potential Islamist attack plot.

The arrests followed a joint investigation by MI5 and police, who conducted raids on Monday morning at residential addresses in London, Manchester and Peterborough.

(Yeah I know, the Guardian is just propaganda ) 

Norway is also giving classes about how and why it's wrong to rape women

https://www.thelocal.no/20160120/no-means-no-norway-sends-migrants-on-anti-rape-courses

 

Edited by scribblet
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37 minutes ago, Marocc said:

Islamophobe logic.

"The refugees all have been taught at home women can be raped and it's okay."

state offers free education relating to sex. Islamophobics can find nothing wrong with the education or those receiving it.

"They're offering to teach the uneducated illiteral refugees about sex! They teach that to my kids in school but oh no, they teach it to refugees. That's so.... so..... I don't know what is wrong with it, but it's just soo......" *faints

Different cultural attitudes towards women exist.  To state differently is disingenuous.  Infidelophobe logic.

Fainting doesn't help.  It's just the same old blinders.

Edited by bcsapper
Men never deny evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do so from religious conviction - Not quite Blaise Pascal
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5 hours ago, Goddess said:

Stuff like "Islam deals harshly with homosexuals."  What is that - propaganda, misinformation or a lie?

More than anything it is vague. I know it isn't easy to form a coherent argument that isn't broken down by a fifth grader, but in order to make one, you would have to differentiate between Islam, Muslims, and others.

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This is disturbing especially the parts where Sweden tries to play the problem down and denies what is happening,

https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-bombings-grenade-attacks-violent-reality-undoing-peaceful-self-image-law-and-order/

Gang-related gun murders, now mainly a phenomenon among men with immigrant backgrounds in the country’s parallel societies, increased from 4 per year in the early 1990s to around 40 last year. Because of this, Sweden has gone from being a low-crime country to having homicide rates significantly above the Western European average. Social unrest, with car torchings, attacks on first responders and even riots, is a recurring phenomenon.

snip

Since crime is intimately linked to the country’s failure to integrate its immigrants, the rise in violence,  the Swedish government and opposition refer to the country as a “humanitarian superpower” because it opened its doors to more immigrants per capita during the migrant crisis than any other EU country, they mean it. This has resulted in some impressive contortions.

In March, Labor Market Minister Ylva Johansson appeared on the BBC, where she claimed that the number of reported rapes and sexual harassment cases “is going down and going down and going down.” In fact, the opposite is true, which Johansson later admitted in an apology.

and in Finland 

Sure, blame the Finns for not understanding migrant culture, they have to adapt to them, after all, they  only pay the taxes that support the migrants.

It seems that the Finnish Oulu region has announced that migrants are no longer allowed to visit schools and daycare centers.  (seems they were allowed to visit in the spirit of multiculturalism or some such thing)   so what could go wrong.

Well,  parents have complained about so-called integration visits and feel worried about their children after the recent rape wave against young girls.

According to the Finnish police, the alleged perpetrators are male migrants who have come to the country in recent years and most of the rape victims are girls under the age of 15.   But hey…   you can just have to understand their culture doncha know

migrants police.jpg

Edited by scribblet
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51 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Maybe you don't understand the difference between the sex education they teach kids in schools and the type offered by the gov't which is definitely teaching uneducated, illiterates, (you got that right) that it is NOT okay to rape and assault women. 

I read the description in the link you — I believe — linked. What it described is nearly the same as what teenagers are taught in schools in the west, with only slight differences.

The first university ever, was established by Muslims. There are many many highly educated refugees. And many many little educated Westerners.

And if it is such a simple thing— this difference between consensual and non-consensual —why is it so difficult for so many Westerners, oh, and probably non-religious ones at that, to understand what it means when a woman says no?

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12 minutes ago, Marocc said:

I read the description in the link you — I believe — linked. What it described is nearly the same as what teenagers are taught in schools in the west, with only slight differences.

The first university ever, was established by Muslims. There are many many highly educated refugees. And many many little educated Westerners.

And if it is such a simple thing— this difference between consensual and non-consensual —why is it so difficult for so many Westerners, oh, and probably non-religious ones at that, to understand what it means when a woman says no?

So they are not going to reach them all.  Well, that's no reason not to try.

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3 hours ago, scribblet said:

According to the Finnish police, the alleged perpetrators are male migrants who have come to the country in recent years and most of the rape victims are girls under the age of 15.  

Another fiction story in mind? Why don't you continue this one by telling where you imagine that information came from? The quote you put there is not regarding rapes at all. But people like you want everyone to be afraid of Muslims. That way some women become frightened when approached by a Muslim — a man even.

c44cf78.jpg

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8 hours ago, scribblet said:

Because of this, Sweden has gone from being a low-crime country to having homicide rates significantly above the Western European average.

Source for that? And, um, because of that? Is that an opinion?

8 hours ago, scribblet said:

Since crime is intimately linked to the country’s failure to integrate its immigrants, the rise in violence, 

Source?

8 hours ago, scribblet said:

It seems that the Finnish Oulu region has announced that migrants are no longer

—Temporarily.

Where's your source for the entire article?

8 hours ago, scribblet said:

seems they were allowed to visit in the spirit of multiculturalism or some such thing

No. It's for educational purposes. Lots of groups visit them.

8 hours ago, scribblet said:

what could go wrong.

Nothing went wrong. There were no problems present during the visits.

8 hours ago, scribblet said:

parents have complained

Some of them parents, some of them not.

8 hours ago, scribblet said:

According to the Finnish police, the alleged perpetrators are male migrants who have come to the country in recent years

That's a lie. Some of them were migrants.

8 hours ago, scribblet said:

recent rape wave against young girls.

The amount of reports (they were not just of rape) was not significantly different from other regions.

8 hours ago, scribblet said:

most of the rape victims are girls under the age of 15

Unlikely, but a source might solve that.

9 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Men never deny evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do so from religious conviction - Not quite Blaise Pascal

Religion is so great a thing that it is right that those who will not take the trouble to seek it if it be obscure, should be deprived of it. —Blaise Pascal

Edited by Marocc
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Not sure what the above has to do with this thread, however

You are free to continue denying, I provided links, here are some more but  don't faint now

Warning – Islamophobic content

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/oulu_bans_asylum_seeker_visits_to_schools/10623356

https://svenska.yle.fi/artikel/2019/01/13/sexualbrott-mot-barn-nu-ocksa-i-helsingfors-regeringen-samlas-for-att-diskutera

https://samnytt.se/finsk-kommun-forbjuder-migranter-pa-dagis-och-skolor-efter-valdtaktsvag/?fbclid=IwAR11nQJGapdsECOgAU2buXmpw4TFwQ5sgG8-cdEv10lohYpRtvuaANumiiw

https://www.is.fi/kotimaa/art-2000005965803.html

On Saturday, President Niinistö took a position on the recent news about additional offenses committed by foreign-born men. "It is unacceptable that some asylum seekers and even those who have been granted asylum have brought evil here and created insecurity here," Niinistö comments in a statement published on the President's website.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6589765/Finnish-President-expresses-disgust-migrant-grooming-gangs-child-sex-scandal-escalates.html

This Afghan asylum seeker who attacked random members of the public with a knife was “fuelled” by a desire to kill English people, a court has now heard.   Nothing to see here, just some cultural enrichment.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7358539/Afghan-asylum-seeker-tried-murder-stranger-Tesco-jailed-19-years.html

Edited by scribblet
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8 hours ago, Marocc said:

Relocating for forced labor

 

Do you find it odd that a person can be thoroughly contemptuous of, and disgusted by, the excesses of both Islam and the Chinese?

Edited by bcsapper
With a bit of luck and some good judgement, those who take the trouble to avoid religion will be able to - Not Blaise Pascal
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3 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Do you find it odd that a person can be thoroughly contemptuous of, and disgusted by, the excesses of both Islam and the Chinese?

I guess not. Why?

3 hours ago, bcsapper said:

With a bit of luck and some good judgement, those who take the trouble to avoid religion will be able to - Not Blaise Pascal

There are only three types of people; those who have found God and serve him; those who have not found God and seek him, and those who live not seeking, or finding him. The first are rational and happy; the second unhappy and rational, and the third foolish and unhappy. — Blaise Pascal

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