This week in Islam

[Michael Hardner]

https://www.dailysabah.com/americas/2019/05/14/turkish-mosque-in-us-suffers-serious-damage-after-anti-muslim-arson-attack-in-ramadan

Mosque attacked in Connecticut this week.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Mosque attacked in Connecticut this week.

It was probably Mormons.

[OftenWrong]

29 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It was probably Mormons.

That's part of the point, there's no way it would be. Such violence is heresy in the mainstream christian belief. Can't say for sure if that's the case for Islam.

[dialamah]

Oh look ... Quebec passes a bill banning 'religious dress' and attacks against Muslim women increase.  Is anyone surprised?  Islamaphobic apologists will no doubt brush this off as irrelevant.  

Hate crimes continue to increase in Canada, particularly against those who are obviously different, attacks against Muslims and Jews leading the pack. 

 

[dialamah]

32 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

That's part of the point, there's no way it would be. Such violence is heresy in the mainstream christian belief. Can't say for sure if that's the case for Islam.

Mainstream Islam does not condone violence, which you'd understand if you  considered that there are more 1.5 billion Muslims in the world and  more than 1.4999 billion of them are not violent.  Your logic would have you defining Christians as gay-killers because some Christians from African countries and even fewer Christians from Western countries kill gay people.

[DogOnPorch]

20 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Mainstream Islam does not condone violence

 

Really?

The Quran says otherwise...for example...and this is just one...

And fight in the cause of Allah and know that Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

https://quran.com/2/244

 

 

[Goddess]

Whether they are violent now, at this moment, matters little.  When extremist beliefs such as the subjugation of women, gays and infidels are held by the majority, it can only lead to violence. 

You would have celebrated the Shafia, Parvez, Khadr and Sidhu families as "peaceful" and "non-violent".  And they were non-violent - until they weren't.  Because they all had extremist beliefs that led all of them to kill their daughters for "honour" and teach their children to terrorize.   After being in Canada for years.  This is what you refuse to acknowledge - that the ones you tout and laud as "moderates" are really not moderate at all.

You seem to understand the danger of extremist beliefs of white supremicists and how easily they lead to violence, but you deny this about Muslims.  Anyone - even Muslims - who carry that kind of hatred around - it's like carrying a loaded gun - at some point, you're going to use it.

Whether they are violent NOW or not, does not matter.  It's what extremist beliefs they hold that count.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

Whether they are violent NOW or not, does not matter.  It's what extremist beliefs they hold that count.

 

Extremist? This is just the regular old Quran written by Allah.

What does this verse say to you?

So let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. And he who fights in the cause of Allah and is killed or achieves victory - We will bestow upon him a great reward.

https://quran.com/4/74

[dialamah]

19 minutes ago, Goddess said:

You seem to understand the danger of extremist beliefs of white supremicists and how easily they lead to violence, but you deny this about Muslims

If I was on a discussion forum with people who said things like 'Western culture is barbaric and Godless, they want to subjugate all Muslims, take over our country and destroy our culture' I would be pointing out to them how full of shit they are.  If they constantly made a point of posting violent news stories about attacks on Muslims and Muslim nations, designed to demonize Westerners as a whole, I would post news stories about their own atrocities in reply.  No doubt they would attack me as eagerly as you, Argus and DoP do.  The one advantage I have here is that I am not banned; I would be by an anti-Western forum.

You seem to think that hatred and terrorism are the sole purview of Muslims, that they must all apologize and make amends for.  In the meantime, the hate spread here by your own tribe you go to great lengths to defend.

[scribblet]

Posting valid news is not hate, unless of course they point out Islamic violence...we get it   

[dialamah]

7 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Posting valid news is not hate, 

It is if it's all you post about Muslims, and if you happily post from and defend fake stories from garbage sites, like you do.

You'll note, if you pay attention, that I don't dispute actual news stories from MSM/credible media.  

[Goddess]

24 minutes ago, dialamah said:

If I was on a discussion forum with people who said things like 'Western culture is barbaric and Godless, they want to subjugate all Muslims, take over our country and destroy our culture' I would be pointing out to them how full of shit they are.  If they constantly made a point of posting violent news stories about attacks on Muslims and Muslim nations, designed to demonize Westerners as a whole, I would post news stories about their own atrocities in reply.  No doubt they would attack me as eagerly as you, Argus and DoP do.  The one advantage I have here is that I am not banned; I would be by an anti-Western forum.

You seem to think that hatred and terrorism are the sole purview of Muslims, that they must all apologize and make amends for.  In the meantime, the hate spread here by your own tribe you go to great lengths to defend.

Wake up, Dia.  Islamic terrorism is a problem. It's a huge problem.  Islam's stone-age beliefs, punishments and way of life are clashing with Western values.

Sorry if we all don't want to ignore it and sweep it under the rug like you do.

You're here every day - demanding that it NOT be talked about or that it only be talked about in the way YOU want it talked about.  If you feel that strongly about it, perhaps you should be doing more to prevent the media and journalists and Muslim/Ex-Muslim reformers from talking about it as well. They have far more influence than anyone here does.

 

Edit:  It's funny because I remember when I was  JW and how bent out of shape I was every time someone pointed out anything bad about my pet religion, too.  

Edited May 16, 2019 by Goddess

[dialamah]

29 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Wake up, Dia.  Islamic terrorism is a problem. It's a huge problem.  Islam's stone-age beliefs, punishments and way of life are clashing with Western values.

Who is it a problem for?  Primarily other Muslims, whether its death via terror attack or death by an ignorant mob or government.  But your solution, and Argus' and others on here is to target Muslims to deny as many as possible an escape from that, to highlight Muslim crimes here as inherent to all Muslims, even though most Muslims never make the news for crime - to which the response is generally that 'authorities' are misleading us about Muslim criminality".  You dismiss ,"good news" stories about Muslims in Canada as a lie meant to trick us, even though 75+% of Muslims who come to the country are successful, you guys want to believe that the 25% who struggle are the norm.  You want to limit individual rights and practice your own oppression against women by telling them what they can wear.  

In the meantime, I have acknowledged many times the problem of terrorism, and radicalization.  I think it's a problem whether it's a Muslim extremist or a far-right extremist.  I think all religion is a problem when it holds power, and right now Islam holds too much power in too many countries, just as Christianity did a few hundred years ago.

Despite your claims that I "won't discuss the issues" I remind you that I have expressed concern over Canada's poor record on FGM; FYI I have even written a letter to my rep, to which I received a canned response.  I have talked here about spousal abuse, higher in immigrant and Indigenous populations and that solutions must encompass everyone.  I have pointed out that over time immigrants adopt their host country's values as demonstrated by the Environics study Argus tries to use to discredit Muslims. 

Your response has been that banning the hijab/niqab and not allowing Muslims into Canada will somehow help and sarcastically claiming I think they "magically become progressive when they cross the border."  

I am not the one blinded by some emotion here.  And the more you attack me and misrepresent what I have said, the more I think the real problem is that you don't like the mirror I hold up.

[DogOnPorch]

20 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Who is it a problem for?  Primarily other Muslims, whether its death via terror attack or death by an ignorant mob or government.  But your solution, and Argus' and others on here is to target Muslims to deny as many as possible an escape from that, to highlight Muslim crimes here as inherent to all Muslims, even though most Muslims never make the news for crime - to which the response is generally that 'authorities' are misleading us about Muslim criminality".  You dismiss ,"good news" stories about Muslims in Canada as a lie meant to trick us, even though 75+% of Muslims who come to the country are successful, you guys want to believe that the 25% who struggle are the norm.  You want to limit individual rights and practice your own oppression against women by telling them what they can wear.  

 

 

So I ask again...which Muslims will turn violent as ordered by the Quran and which Muslims will not? How does one tell?

[Goddess]

18 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

You dismiss ,"good news" stories about Muslims in Canada as a lie meant to trick us

Pardon me?  The only "feel good" story I balked at was the couple in BC who's collecting over $6000 a month for 8 kids, still doing nothing but reproducing and whined about having to quit the language classes becasue they were not  "helpful".

Please provide the many cites where you claim I dismissed feel good stories as being tricks by the media. And I mean those exact words, Dia - NOT your twisted re-interpretations of what is discussed

 

18 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

You want to limit individual rights and practice your own oppression against women by telling them what they can wear.

I have always been clear that I do not agree with the symbolism, history or present-day use of hijabs and burkas in the subjugation of women.  I have never said that women can't wear them. I have also said many times that I'm not sure a ban would work or if it's the right thing to do.   Please provide the many cites where I have told women what they can wear.

Please explain how me not agreeing with the symbolism, history or present-day use of hijabs and burkas is practicing my own "oppression of women".

I'm getting really tired of your lies.

Edit:  Sorry to Dog, I accidentally quoted YOU quoting Dia.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Goddess

[dialamah]

16 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

So I ask again...which Muslims will turn violent as ordered by the Quran and which Muslims will not? How does one tell?

And I ask you ... which alt-right, anti-immgrant, George Soros conspiratard will turn violent "to save White race/culture" and which will not.  How does one tell?

[Goddess]

This person is so bizarre......constantly has to re-word everything that is said, just to be able to portray her pet religion as a victim and argue things that are not even said.  I'm starting to think there is something seriously wrong with your mental health.

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

That's part of the point, there's no way it would be. Such violence is heresy in the mainstream christian belief. Can't say for sure if that's the case for Islam.

Right.  Here's how it works... Crazy Christians who murder do not have it attributed to their religion.

[DogOnPorch]

7 minutes ago, dialamah said:

And I ask you ... which alt-right, anti-immgrant, George Soros conspiratard will turn violent "to save White race/culture" and which will not.  How does one tell?

 

As far as I know, there is no accepted manifesto (et al) followed by right wing folks that says kill anybody. Not so with Islam which literally orders the Believer to fight the Unbeliever until Islam reigns supreme over all others. Above all others in the World...

Thus, your solution is to play wait n' see...as far as Islamic violence goes.

What's the acceptable number of dead allowed in this experiment?

Edited May 16, 2019 by DogOnPorch

[OftenWrong]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Right.  Here's how it works... Crazy Christians who murder do not have it attributed to their religion.

It doesn't work that way for me. Too simple. The issue is complex and requires more reason and understanding.

[DogOnPorch]

11 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Edit:  Sorry to Dog, I accidentally quoted YOU quoting Dia.

No worries.

 

[DogOnPorch]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Right.  Here's how it works... Crazy Christians who murder do not have it attributed to their religion.

 

Can you show us all the passage in the Christian Bible which orders Christians to fight the non-Christians until Christianity reigns supreme over all other religions and beliefs in the whole world? I can with the Quran...but can YOU with the Bible? Let's see...shall we?

[Goddess]

16 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Right.  Here's how it works... Crazy Christians who murder do not have it attributed to their religion.

Maybe that's because the perpetrators themselves do not attribute it to their religion.  It seems like every Muslim perpetrator cites the Koran verses they are following and also shouts that he is doing so for Allah.

Also, Muslim perpetrators are often applauded by their community when they carry out the commands of Allah.  Very few in the Christian community applaud such actions.

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

It doesn't work that way for me. Too simple. The issue is complex and requires more reason and understanding.

Good luck with that approach.

[dialamah]

18 minutes ago, Goddess said:

This person is so bizarre......constantly has to re-word everything that is said, just to be able to portray her pet religion as a victim and argue things that are not even said.  I'm starting to think there is something seriously wrong with your mental health.

I use DoPs exact words, substituting a group that isn't Muslim, and I'm the one with a mental health issue.  So cute.