Moderating Mapleafweb's Moderation

[Michael Hardner]

Hal, I have explained this several times. We don't allow people to 'throw out' racist. If you really still don't understand then PM me and I will take the time to explain it to you personally.

Thanks.

[dialamah]

For those of you who doubt that someone would NOT object to being called a bigot:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/25285-islamophobia-in-canada/page-92#entry1123907

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/25285-islamophobia-in-canada/page-93#entry1123917

[Guest]

For those of you who doubt that someone would NOT object to being called a bigot:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/25285-islamophobia-in-canada/page-92#entry1123907

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/25285-islamophobia-in-canada/page-93#entry1123917

I agree with DoP. It's not a big deal to be called anything on here. The irritating thing is that the people who do the calling might think they are right.

[Hal 9000]

For those of you who doubt that someone would NOT object to being called a bigot:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/25285-islamophobia-in-canada/page-92#entry1123907

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/25285-islamophobia-in-canada/page-93#entry1123917

OK, I stand corrected! DoP doesn't mind being called racist - fair enough. I guess the big thing I've learned from reading that interaction is how you thinly veiled calling him a racist with no repercussions. I guess its just all in the delivery...or maybe who the players are.

[Michael Hardner]

Actually - I don't see anybody being 'called' a bigot in those links. Language is subtle and the long time posters here do navigate it effectively, regardless of political leaning.

[Hal 9000]

Actually - I don't see anybody being 'called' a bigot in those links. Language is subtle and the long time posters here do navigate it effectively, regardless of political leaning.

Really? I hope this isn't too subtle for a moderator to spot.

Dialamah - "So, in agreeing with Trump, are you comfortable being painted with the same brush - that of being a bigot and an Islamaphobe?"

Edited August 15, 2016 by Hal 9000

[Guest]

OK, I stand corrected! DoP doesn't mind being called racist - fair enough. I guess the big thing I've learned from reading that interaction is how you thinly veiled calling him a racist with no repercussions. I guess its just all in the delivery...or maybe who the players are.

Being called a racist just means there is no argument against what was said. It's a catch all for saving face and avoiding the issue. It's no reason to stop arguing though.

[cybercoma]

Being called a racist just means there is no argument against what was said. It's a catch all for saving face and avoiding the issue. It's no reason to stop arguing though.

Absolutely incorrect. Calling someone's arguments racist points out the logical inconsistencies and bias in them.

[Guest]

Absolutely incorrect. Calling someone's arguments racist points out the logical inconsistencies and bias in them.

If one did that as well it would.

[DogOnPorch]

Let's be clear: No, I do not view myself as a racist. Being called one does not a racist make.

Some posters call anybody who disagrees with their world view racists or bigots or whatever suits them. I hope they are punished. But, experience has shown me that they are not unless i personally stoop to their level and report them.

Not going to happen. So they continue.

[betsy]

I am not sure which post you are speaking of. It's possible it was missed, or that the so-called insult was not specific to a poster.

This happens all the time, ie.

"Right-wingers are ...."

"Progressives on MLW are..."

"Racist posters on here say..."

"The anti-semites on this board..."

These are more like blanket generalizations and are not specific to any one poster on MLW. When somebody qualifies them with something like "such as you" then it becomes a specific insult.

These statements are general, as I say, and undefined so while they aren't usually useful opinions to the discussion they aren't always considered trolling or insults.

Michael, you suspended me for a day for posting something that's not really meant for a poster, but just an opinion that was meant about "protest votes."

I never quoted anyone. It was a post on its own. It criticizes "protest votes."

I even asked: "Protest to who?"

And I followed it with this statement (which you suspended me for being insulting!)

It's a SECRET ballot, dummy. Wrap your head around that.

You're using your own interpretation and putting words in my mouth! You deleted the post. That's blatant censorship.

That post was not directed to a poster! it was a generalized opinion - that's why it stands on its own!

It was not a response to anyone!

Your reaction to my post is not consistent to your claim above!

Aren't you becoming suspension-happy? Or, is it just me?

Edited August 16, 2016 by betsy

[Hal 9000]

I am not sure which post you are speaking of. It's possible it was missed, or that the so-called insult was not specific to a poster.

This happens all the time, ie.

"Right-wingers are ...."

"Progressives on MLW are..."

"Racist posters on here say..."

"The anti-semites on this board..."

These are more like blanket generalizations and are not specific to any one poster on MLW. When somebody qualifies them with something like "such as you" then it becomes a specific insult.

You mean like this, right?

"So, in agreeing with Trump, are you comfortable being painted with the same brush - that of being a bigot and an Islamaphobe?"

[Michael Hardner]

Really? I hope this isn't too subtle for a moderator to spot.

Dialamah - "So, in agreeing with Trump, are you comfortable being painted with the same brush - that of being a bigot and an Islamaphobe?"

Great example.

Asking somebody "Are you comfortable being called a racist ?" isn't calling somebody a racist, at least not in my books.

If some of this is mystifying to some of you, then rest assured many longtime posters here are masters of the subtlety of language and can frame their arguments and point of view without direct insults.

[Michael Hardner]

1. You're using your own interpretation and putting words in my mouth! You deleted the post. That's blatant censorship.

2. Aren't you becoming suspension-happy? Or, is it just me?

1. No, "It's a secret ballot dummy" reads as an insult, obviously. Yes, we censor insults.

2. No, I don't think I'm suspending any more or less than in the past.

We're starting to get into a situation, though, where people are getting us to parse individual moderator judgments which is only useful to a point.

I do feel confused at times as to why people express exasperation at our decisions, so I sincerely help these two examples will illustrate to some of you how we get to our decisions.

"Are you comfortable being called racist ?" - not an insult in my books

"It's the secret ballot dummy. " - insult in my books

And we're not going to parse every suspension, statement, compare apples-to-oranges and attempt to be inhumanly perfect.

This is just a peek under the hood as to how I see things. Please continue to enjoy the game, not just the rules.

As ever, thanks to all of you for posting. PM me if you have specific questions and I will try to answer.

[betsy]

1. No, "It's a secret ballot dummy" reads as an insult, obviously. Yes, we censor insults.

It does reads as an insult. But.....who have I insulted?

Edited August 16, 2016 by betsy

[betsy]

2. No, I don't think I'm suspending any more or less than in the past.

But if we go by your own claim above.....I shouldn't have been suspended at all!

I insulted no one in particular! That's the point!

Edited August 16, 2016 by betsy

[betsy]

"Are you comfortable being called racist ?" - not an insult in my books

"It's the secret ballot dummy. " - insult in my books

In your books.

"It's friday, you big dummy." "Manuals for dummies." - so, those are all insults in your books?

"It's a secret ballot, dummy" - is also a lingo.

Edited August 16, 2016 by betsy

[Big Guy]

I hardly think it's "outing" somebody if they're already out... or OK with the racist label.

Whatever...maybe i'll just ask; Who here is Ok with being called "racist"?

..

I am OK being called anything by anybody here. If I had respect for the source then it would probably make me re-read what I had written but who cares what somebody on an anonymous board calls you?

I have been called racist, bigot, moron, anti-Semite, Jew hater, left winger, right winger, passive aggressive, aggressive passive, illogical, uneducated, dumb, a jerk, pervert, and a lot more. Most of the time it just reinforces in me that I am on the right track.

I have been called an anti-Semitic Jew hater by an obviously disturbed individual who appears to live in a religious bubble and sides with Zionists. I am more than pleased that he holds that view of me.

I have been called a moronic uneducated fool by a poster who prioritizes quantity over quality in his participation and shows an obvious lack of education and intellect. It is like being criticized by a jackass. The criticism becomes an endorsement of correctness and sanity.

That is why I have never nor will I ever report something to the mods. I need being criticized by jackasses to indicate that I am making a point and encourage my participation.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Big Guy

[poochy]

Great example.

Asking somebody "Are you comfortable being called a racist ?" isn't calling somebody a racist, at least not in my books.

If some of this is mystifying to some of you, then rest assured many longtime posters here are masters of the subtlety of language and can frame their arguments and point of view without direct insults.

And there you have it, it's the game, and some are better at weasal words than others, not actually better though, just less principled, and some think that behavior is commendable and they happen to be in charge, welcome to MLW. Btw, there isn't one single thing in this world that is mystifying to me that you understand, but thanks for the, perhaps intentional, object lesson. Btw, the books you read seem to have been written by liars, perhaps your moral code is broken for that reason.

[bush_cheney2004]

... I guess we should just ignore all that and consider anyone who follows Islam to be a knuckle-dragging troglodyte. Nevermind the fact that Muhammad Ali, Janet Jackson, Shaq, Dr. Oz, Dave Chappelle, Ice Cube, Cat Stevens, and a bunch of other famous Americans are Muslims.....The fact that he sees no difference between Muslims is the bigotry.

Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens) is most certainly a Muslim and UK national, but I don't think he has ever been an American citizen, as he was deported in 2004 after his flight was diverted by U.S. Homeland Security (no-fly list). I guess other differences also escape notice.

Not sure what "American" Muslims exemplify in this argument, but Yusuf Islam ain't one of them.

[Spiderfish]

We don't allow people to 'throw out' racist. If you really still don't understand then PM me and I will take the time to explain it to you personally.

Thanks.

How about if they imply one is racist without actually having the courage to come out and finish the word? Just curious so I know the acceptable level of character assault around here moving forward.

BTW - Perception is reality to the person doing the perceiving. That is why I do not say that yours is faulty, I say that it is the "r" word. Perception is greatly influenced by attitude, understanding and tolerance (or lack of such).

Edited August 16, 2016 by Spiderfish

[Argus]

Hal, I have explained this several times. We don't allow people to 'throw out' racist. If you really still don't understand then PM me and I will take the time to explain it to you personally.

Well, you do as long as they don't explicitly say who they're calling a racist, however careful they are to ensure everyone knows who they're directing it at.

[Argus]

I do feel confused at times as to why people express exasperation at our decisions, so I sincerely help these two examples will illustrate to some of you how we get to our decisions.

People express exasperation at your decisions because they often seem to be unpredictable and inconsistent.

Like just when I thought I had it down pretty good that your definition of trolling was derailing a thread instead you guys are like "No, we're fine with that. Just ignore it if you don't like it."

Edited August 16, 2016 by Argus

[Argus]

I have been called racist, bigot, moron, anti-Semite, Jew hater, left winger, right winger, passive aggressive, aggressive passive, illogical, uneducated, dumb, a jerk, pervert, and a lot more. Most of the time it just reinforces in me that I am on the right track.

So when you call people racists your purpose is to reinforce to them that they're on the right track?

[cybercoma]

Well, you do as long as they don't explicitly say who they're calling a racist, however careful they are to ensure everyone knows who they're directing it at.

don't pretend like you don't know the game. I could post dozens of your replies where you call people idiots or some variation thereof without directing it exactly at them. Yet, you're going to complain about "name calling." Come on, man. If you cared as little about certain people's opinions as you claim you do, then it wouldn't matter one bit that they call you a racist or a bigot. If your arguments as intelligent and reasonable as you think they are, then you shouldn't be concerned about others reading those "insults" and agreeing. You play the game as much as anyone else with your constant insults towards "liberals," "the left," and "progressives." You know exactly what you're doing and who you're insulting. So don't pretend that you're some innocent victim just trying to have an intelligent discussion.