Boeing 777 Disappears Near Vietnam

[Big Guy]

A Boeing 777 jetliner disappears somewhere near Vietnam. A tragedy for the 262 people and their friends and relatives. I have been in an airport waiting for an airplane whose arrival time was listed as delayed longer and longer and longer. I remember the anxiety I was experiencing. Fortunately, in my case, the flight eventually arrived. I do feel for those at the Beijing airport waiting as the information on this tragedy began to unfold.

I do have some questions;

With the technology available to-day, how can a 777 “disappear” anywhere on this earth?

What could occur in the air where there was not only no “Mayday” call but there was no indication of any problems?

There are international no fly lists, x-ray screening and you cannot board an airliner with nail clippers or toothpaste but you can with a stolen passport? Hello !?!

There has been some speculation that a major explosion occurred where the airliner disintegrated. Is there nothing on board a 777 or satellite that would indicate a major explosion?

[Michael Hardner]

There are international no fly lists, x-ray screening and you cannot board an airliner with nail clippers or toothpaste but you can with a stolen passport? Hello !?!

I'm also wondering how that can happen.

[Guest]

The fact that there were stolen passports suggests that the aircraft might have met with an end that wasn't accidental. However, terrorists usually claim responsibility and there has been no such claim so far.

There was also the news that it had attempted to turn around. Possible mechanical failure, or possible hijacking? Mechanical failure would have warranted a call in to ATC.

Then there's the fact that it was a plane full of Chinese nationals, going down within days of an attack that killed 20+ of the same, supposedly by Uyghur separatists.

We may know more soon. Debris has been spotted by the Vietnamese navy and is being investigated.

[bjre]

Flight data recorder (black) technology is too outdated. All data recorded there should be also send to nearby ground control center in real time based on today’s technology.

[Rue]

I echo BC.Its early but it sounds like a mid air bomb.

[Guest]

Apparently the two passengers travelling on stolen passports had consecutive transaction numbers for their ticket purchases.

[WWWTT]

I was at Hong Kong airport boarding a flight to Pearson when this happened.

Our plane was delayed by 40 minutes for some reason.

Also our flight home only took 14 hrs?

An full 1.5 hrs shorter than normal and flew a different path avoiding Russian airspace.

The usual flight path from Pearson to Hong Kong (and vise versa) is directly north to the north pole then directly south, flying over Siberia.

This time our flight went over Japan then north Pacific, then over Alaska and into northern Canada. First time I have seen this route.

Maybe a coincidence?

With the new airport restrictions, I doubt that a bomb could be brought onboard. Has any commercial aircraft been downed this way since 9/11?

Still early in the investigation, but I wonder how many people out there actually use stolen passports. Was the passport thing a coincidence or is there some merit?

The only other recent flight disaster that I can think of this puzzling is the Air France from Paris to Rio a few years back.

WWWTT

Edited March 9, 2014 by WWWTT

[Guest]

The stolen passport users were booked on to Europe. Seems a waste of money if they were going to down the plane before it landed in China.

And Boeing has had problems with other aircraft. Cracks in the wings and such.

Still, the lack of any contact is puzzling.

[TimG]

The only other recent flight disaster that I can think of this puzzling is the Air France from Paris to Rio a few years back.

They eventually blamed that on weather and operator error.

[WWWTT]

The stolen passport users were booked on to Europe. Seems a waste of money if they were going to down the plane before it landed in China.

And Boeing has had problems with other aircraft. Cracks in the wings and such.

Still, the lack of any contact is puzzling.

This tactic avoids the need for a Chinese visa.

Stop in Beijing is in transit.

WWWTT

[TimG]

The stolen passport users were booked on to Europe. Seems a waste of money if they were going to down the plane before it landed in China.

Why try analyze such things? The passports were stolen and they did not want to be discovered.

And Boeing has had problems with other aircraft. Cracks in the wings and such.

777s have been flying for 19 years and have one of safest records of any airline built. It is not a plane problem.

[WWWTT]

Why try analyze such things? The passports were stolen and they did not want to be discovered.

777s have been flying for 19 years and have one of safest records of any airline built. It is not a plane problem.

The passports could have been stolen for the sole purpose of being sold. They were stolen in Bangkok (sorry Thailand), to soon to make conclusion.

Also to soon to make conclusion about how the plane went down from a cruising alt. of 35 000ft. Plane is only as good as the condition it is kept in. But I would assume that a country so dependant on tourism would insure a high safety standard.

WWWTT

[Guest]

This tactic avoids the need for a Chinese visa.

Stop in Beijing is in transit.

WWWTT

Good point. Didn't think of that.

[On Guard for Thee]

Good point. Didn't think of that.

Absolutely right. If you're not leaving the airport you don't need a visa, and if you are travelling on a stolen passport it's probably not a good idea to attempt to get a visa in it. I have a bit of a ? with regard to the latest I heard about the radar traces suggesting a reverse course. If you're on an IFR flight plan you don't turn around without telling ATC and giving them a reason why. In any case one would have to assume the 777 came apart in the air---severe mechanical failure?, highly doubtful. A bomb causing severe failure, more likely. If it came apart in the air for whatever reason at 500+ knots and then fell 36,000 ft or so, the pieces would likely be getting pretty small and hence hard to find. I have heard they have reviewed CCTV tapes and have faces to the 2 guys on the stolen passports. I'm sure they are digging into that lead big time. More questions than answers so far. And of course so sad for the folks left behind.

[Shady]

Most likely terrorism. Even though some in this forum like to pretend the threat of terrorism doesn't exist.

[Wilber]

Wonder if military radars will be able to add anything to what happened after the transponder was lost. Most ATC radars are pretty useless when it comes to primary targets.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Wilber

[On Guard for Thee]

Wonder if military radars will be able to add anything to what happened after the transponder was lost. Most ATC radars are pretty useless when it comes to primary targets.

Here's hoping they come up with something. Of course the loved ones would at least like to know where their folks came to rest. And of course we need to know what happenned. Too bad they didn't have a "Skytrac" or similar system on board. At least they would have the exact position, alt., speed, as long as there was power to the main busses. That would narrow the search area significantly.

[WWWTT]

Most likely terrorism. Even though some in this forum like to pretend the threat of terrorism doesn't exist.

You may be right Shady? But still too soon.

I was boarding a Cathay Pacific flight the very same morning not more than several thousand km away when this happened!

My wife and I are following this story very close because it hits home man!

Whatever happened, my prayers are with the passengers, crew and their family/friends.

And I sincerely hope that air travel becomes safer as a result!

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Here's a couple links

http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVjH4gB1TcFMAfmUXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTByMG04Z2o2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1394471289/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.cnn.com%2f2014%2f03%2f09%2fworld%2fasia%2fmalaysia-airlines-plane%2findex.html/RK=0/RS=ewLaxidWjshsgVhLMgDDV7alizY-

http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=Am51gJc2RvNH0KHEwPz6W4vedPV_;_ylc=X3oDMThnYjV0NDAwBF9TAzIxNDY3OTI2NzAEYWN0A3RodW1ibGluawRjdANzdGFuZGFyZARlZAMxBGludGwDY2EEaXRjAzAEbHBvcwMwBG1jb2RlA0FnQlRIWUFRQTJzUUVBTkp1QkFEUDcwUUEyUWVFQUFEVkJBQVhuY1FBRkkxRUFCcm1nPT0EbWlkA3RkBG1wb3MDMQRwa2cDaWQtMTg5ODczNARwa2d0AzEEcG9zAzEEc2VjA3RkLWZlYQRzbGsDQ2FuYWRpYW5zIG9uIG1pc3NpbmcgamV0bGluZXIEdGFyA2h0dHA6Ly9jYS5uZXdzLnlhaG9vLmNvbQR0ZXN0AwR2ZXJzaW9uA2xlZ28Ed29lAzEyNjk3NTgy;_ylg=X3oDMTE5cHE0NjFxBGludGwDY2EEbGFuZwNlbi1jYQRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdAMEcHQDcG1o;_ylv=0/SIG=13pdjrtb5/EXP=1395652616/**http%3A//ca.news.yahoo.com/malaysia-airlines-former-montreal-resident-wife-missing-plane-173743171.html

One of the most disturbing facts I find is that 5 of the victims are under the age of 5!

That breaks my heart.

WWWTT

[gunrutz]

It is really strange that there has been no debris found yet, if the aircaraft exploded there should be debris all over, if it impacted with the ocean at speed there should be debris, if it went down one way or another it must not be where they think it is, but by now i would have expected the search to have been expanded enough to have found something. In aviation terms this isn't in the middle of nowhere.

[Rue]

Wonder if military radars will be able to add anything to what happened after the transponder was lost. Most ATC radars are pretty useless when it comes to primary targets.

Most jets disappearing off a radar leaving no debris get blown up mid air throwing the debris in many directions and even debris that would float like oil, blood, chair material, body parts, certain kinds of metal, might be hard to detect from the air. If such debris is there remember it gets swallowed up in the waves and currents and sinks or dissipates.

Body parts get quickly eaten.

If they do find something it may be this type of debris if they get to it fast enough. As each day passes its less and less likely. Eventually it all sinks from being compromised by salt water waves.

The sudden disappearance indicates a high heat impact vaporizing like explosion. Either that or a UFO abduction. Don't laugh someone is bound to suggest Zionists working with aliens did it or the Americans did it.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Rue

[Wilber]

Most jets disappearing off a radar leaving no debris get blown up mid air throwing the debris in many directions and it quickly sinks. there might be oil left behind but even that oil which rains down over a wide area because its not concentrated becomes hard to detect from the air after a few hours. No one is sure of that oil slick off Vietnam was from the jet. It looks more and more like boat discharge.

No, an aircraft this size would not come apart in many small pieces unless a massive amount of explosives were used. Even then, the engines alone are larger in diameter than a 737 fuselage and the landing gear are also very large pieces. The reason I made that comment is that ATC radars are made to pick up signals from coded transponders, they are not designed to register the aircraft itself. These days, even light aircraft can't operate in controlled airspace without being equipped with a transponder. On the other hand, military radars are designed to do the opposite. They are trying to see objects that don't want to be seen.

An aircraft coming apart in the air is an extremely rare event, the only other such incidents involving types still in use have been sabotage except for TWA 800 (fuel tank explosion). They did find the recorders from AF 447 after it went down in the South Atlantic, SA 295 from the Indian Ocean and Air India 182. I wouldn't be surprised if they get these ones as well.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Wilber

[bush_cheney2004]

If the flight data and voice recorders are still intact, their beacons will run for several weeks, facilitating location by recovery/salvage teams. Even without the beacons, sonar scans would eventually find the debris field if the aircraft went down over water. B777s just don't disappear.

[Michael Hardner]

Even without the beacons, sonar scans would eventually find the debris field if the aircraft went down over water. B777s just don't disappear.

I read that an explosion at high altitude would scatter the debris field, and that much of it would also sink.

Edited: Sorry - I didn't see Wilbur's detailed reply.

[GostHacked]

Flight data recorder (black) technology is too outdated. All data recorded there should be also send to nearby ground control center in real time based on today’s technology.

It is not outdated. However the only way to get information back to a ground station would be through a satellite connection. And from what I understand, there is little contact with airstrips while over the ocean, they depend on each other to keep calling each other. GPS does seem to take care of that issue, but are all planes outfitted with a GPS? I would hope so.

If your connection is not 100% reliable, then the flight recorder is the only source of all the information. A flight recorder also has a very small chance of being tampered/manipulated.