Coalition... of convenience?

[waldo]

there's 'uniting the left' convenient, there's throwing out the ruling riff-raff convenient... and then there's being in 3rd place, striving for credibility convenient!

just what matter of convenience is the recent NDP/Mulcair, flippity-floppity on a coalition with the Liberals?

can a divided vote-splitting left actually beat the Harper Conservatives... particularly with new '2015 seat redistribution'? Is the NDP/Mulcair simply raising an early nod to an eventuality?

[BubberMiley]

It's totally inevitable, but it might take four more years of CPC government to force the issue. But once it happens, it will be an unbeatable juggernaut with majority power for generations to come.

[Shady]

It's totally inevitable, but it might take four more years of CPC government to force the issue. But once it happens, it will be an unbeatable juggernaut with majority power for generations to come.

Most definitely. Perhaps you could even elect the same leader for decades! Just don't forget to put pictures of him up all over the place.

[The_Squid]

I think the Liberals are closer to the Conservatives in ideology up until very recently. Now I am not sure what their ideology is... but if they do form a coalition they will sweep to power easily.

I hope they don't. I am not in favour of 2 party systems. I think they're bad for democracy and cause deeper partisan divides.

[Argus]

I think the Liberals are closer to the Conservatives in ideology up until very recently. Now I am not sure what their ideology is... but if they do form a coalition they will sweep to power easily.

I hope they don't. I am not in favour of 2 party systems. I think they're bad for democracy and cause deeper partisan divides.

If they do, that's exactly what would happen. It would be a two party system, with theirs constantly warring with themselves because fo the ideological differences. Meanwhile, eventually, anyone unhappy with the government would have to gravitate to the conservatives. Look at Quebec as an exaple. Even those who aren't separatists vote PQ simply because they're the only real alternative to the Liberals.

[Moonlight Graham]

It's totally inevitable, but it might take four more years of CPC government to force the issue. But once it happens, it will be an unbeatable juggernaut with majority power for generations to come.

It's not inevitable if the Liberals (or NDP, but likely them) beat the CPC in 2015. If the CPC wins in 2015, a coalition could come or the left parties unite. With the NDP coming closer to the centre than ever before, their raison d'etre in federal government is disappearing since the Liberals are also in the mix.

I also wouldn't say an NDP-Liberal alliance would be unbeatable for "generations to come", but it would be a juggernaut that would likely hold power most every election barring a sponsorship-style scandal disaster. Also, with a united left party, if a huge scandal and backlash did occur against it, it could spring some a new left-wing party as an alternative. Also, young people hardly vote and statistically the older Canadians get the more likely they are to vote, with seniors/aging baby-boomers the most dominant voting age block, so don't underestimate the appeal of the CPC federally.

[g_bambino]

Perhaps you could even elect the same leader for decades!

Like Mackenzie King?

[Moonlight Graham]

If they do, that's exactly what would happen. It would be a two party system, with theirs constantly warring with themselves because fo the ideological differences.

Do you really think there are really that many huge ideological differences between the federal NDP and Liberals anymore? Former PC's and Alliance/Reform Party conservatives seem to get along fairly well while governing. The quest for power tends to mend differences in politics very effectively.

[Smallc]

If there was a merger between the NOD and thr Liberals, blue Liberals would mostly leave for the C PC. The Conservatives would still form government from time to time. In our history, it was usually the Liberals thst formed government anyway.

[socialist]

I think a merger will happen. But it well be a merger of left wing parties. Rename it the PPoC, Progressive Party of Canada, and watch the juggernaut take hold. Many high school students I talk to identify themselves as supporting progressive policies as they are forward thinking. Very few support CPC. Only after a progressive party takes the reins will we see true social justice.

[eyeball]

If there was a merger between the NOD and thr Liberals, blue Liberals would mostly leave for the C PC. The Conservatives would still form government from time to time. In our history, it was usually the Liberals thst formed government anyway.

Meaning we live in state that swings between two ideologies instead of two parties.

I don't get where the fear of a two party state comes from given we more or less live in one in a sense already.

Edited March 1, 2014 by eyeball

[Queenmandy85]

The W.A.C. Bennett government (Socialist Credit) was more bolshevik than Dave Barrett's NDP government in BC. Roy Romanow's NDP government was more conservative than Grant Devine's PC government in Saskatchewan. My point is that when a party takes power, events supersede ideology. Competence, on the other hand has no relation to party label. Premiers Glenn Clark and Grant Devine were idiots. Romanow, Harcourt, Lougheed and Wall are very competent.

A Mulcair or Trudeau government do not scare me. Harper's government scares me because of their apparent antipathy towards science and their tendency to take political differences too seriously.

[PIK]

I think a merger will happen. But it well be a merger of left wing parties. Rename it the PPoC, Progressive Party of Canada, and watch the juggernaut take hold. Many high school students I talk to identify themselves as supporting progressive policies as they are forward thinking. Very few support CPC. Only after a progressive party takes the reins will we see true social justice

True social justice, So in other word If I don't want to work someone else will do it for me. lol

[Bryan]

An NDP/Liberal merger would be smaller than the sum of its parts. A lot of blue liberal voters, financial supporters, insiders, and elected officials would leave. Not only that, the Quebec NDP support would probably collapse, likely resulting in a resurgence of the BQ.

[waldo]

True social justice, So in other word If I don't want to work someone else will do it for me. lol

I note social conservatism was very front-and-center at the recent Manning conference... perhaps you might be inclined to start a thread on it and extoll its virtues - yes?

[PIK]

I think a merger will happen. But it well be a merger of left wing parties. Rename it the PPoC, Progressive Party of Canada, and watch the juggernaut take hold. Many high school students I talk to identify themselves as supporting progressive policies as they are forward thinking. Very few support CPC. Only after a progressive party takes the reins will we see true social justice.

So you are all for the new federal liberals to act like the provincial liberals and spend and spend, because that will happpen if trudeau wins. He is looking toward a dalton/.obama way of doing things.

[Boges]

There's a faction of the Liberal Party that certainly felt the CPC didn't speak to them but were part of the Old Federal PCs.

If Federal politics essentially boils down to two parties, those PCs will have no choice but going to the CPC.

And in Quebec we could certainly see a resurgence in the Bloc if a third option was removed from the ballot.

[segnosaur]

I think a merger will happen. But it well be a merger of left wing parties. Rename it the PPoC, Progressive Party of Canada, and watch the juggernaut take hold. Many high school students I talk to identify themselves as supporting progressive policies as they are forward thinking. Very few support CPC. Only after a progressive party takes the reins will we see true social justice.

"Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."

- Georges Clemenceau, President of France (early 20th century)

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Georges_Clemenceau

[waldo]

And in Quebec we could certainly see a resurgence in the Bloc if a third option was removed from the ballot.

speaking of the apparent Mulcair flip-flop on coalition governance, your reference to the Bloc is worthy of highlighting a historical footnote in regards the 2008 proposal. It was Mulcair (then deputy leader of the NDP and the 'Quebec lieutenant') who brought the Bloc into coalition talks, and it was Mulcair who was the main bi-lateral talks negotiator with the Bloc to get their agreement to support the coalition. Mulcair describes this as his willingness to mix 'water with wine' and how far he was prepared to go in order to remove Harper.

.

[Boges]

speaking of the apparent Mulcair flip-flop on coalition governance, your reference to the Bloc is worthy of highlighting a historical footnote in regards the 2008 proposal. It was Mulcair (then deputy leader of the NDP and the 'Quebec lieutenant') who brought the Bloc into coalition talks, and it was Mulcair who was the main bi-lateral talks negotiator with the Bloc to get their agreement to support the coalition. Mulcair describes this as his willingness to mix 'water with wine' and how far he was prepared to go in order to remove Harper.

.

Are you implying that the Bloc will be part of this hypothetical merger?

One of the reasons there was little public support for the merger was that the CPC could easily paint the coalition as being propped up by separatists, making it very unpopular in the ROC.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Boges

[waldo]

- you mentioned the BQ; I was simply adding the historical perspective. You're speaking of a possible rise of the BQ in regards your suggested "absence of a 3rd party choice"... of course, that presumes upon a possible coalition being announced prior to a campaign/election. That doesn't appear to be a likelihood in any musings I've read... even with the recent Mulcair flip/flop, he speaks of it as a post election option.

[bleeding heart]

Segnosaur seems to think that all over-thirty lefties are not too smart....well, I can live with that. It might even be true in my case!

I'd be more offended if I were a twenty-something conservative, and segnosaur was informing me that I am a sociopath.

[Boges]

Segnosaur seems to think that all over-thirty lefties are not too smart....well, I can live with that. It might even be true in my case!

I'd be more offended if I were a twenty-something conservative, and segnosaur was informing me that I am a sociopath.

It's just a response to someone saying that young people seem to all be Liberal, meaning they'll be in power for generations.

[bleeding heart]

Oh, I know, I was taking the p***, as they say.

However, that much-repeated quote (usually misattributed to Churchill, but not this time), is, for one thing, meaningless in the usual partisan sense; and secondarily, it quite explicitly makes a dueling values comparison: between "conservatism and intelligence" on one end, and between "socialism and sociopathy" on the other.

I mean, sure I get it...."don't overthink it"....but the reason we shouldn't overthink it is because it holds no kernels of truth, unlike some other clichés or homespun sayings.

[PIK]

I note social conservatism was very front-and-center at the recent Manning conference... perhaps you might be inclined to start a thread on it and extoll its virtues - yes?

Here is some of your social justice people at work and these people could be future leaders, I am glad I will be dead by then.

http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2014/03/03/ottawa-students-tried-to-segregate-whites-from-non-whites/