7 million dead children every year

[Moonlight Graham]

7 million children under age 5 die each year from preventable illness & diseases such as diarrhea, measles, & malnutrition. Now imagine if all 7 million dying children were laying in front of you right now: would you let them die as you do now or would you do everything in your power to stop this?

-------------------------

I'm not prescribing any specific solution to this problem, which is very complex. I'm saying that the fact that most of us allow this (not to mention many other atrocities) to continue is an absolute moral outrage that should not continue, and I'm saying that we ignore it because "out of sight, out of mind" and "ignorance is bliss". If we were all confronted face-to-face with this suffering & horror, like in the scenario above, most of us would be morally compelled to do anything we could to help. Personally, if I saw such a scene I would sell every non-essential thing I owned to provide the food & medicine etc. for these kids.

So again: If all 7 million dying children were laying in front of you right now: would you let them die as you do now or would you do everything in your power to stop this? Please explain your answer, as well as if we should be changing our current response to this global reality despite not personally witnessing these tragedies.

[TimG]

Most of the wide scale poverty today is the result of incompetent governments and/or the lack of a civil society. There is little outsiders can do other than provide band aids when a particularly acute crisis hits and even then band aids can cause more harm than good by creating a culture of dependency.

The Iraq and Afghanistan wars illustrate how intractable the problem of bad governance is because even if blood and trillions are invested in building good government structures there is no guarantee that the culture in the countries involved will be able to maintain it once the soldiers leave.

Edited February 12, 2014 by TimG

[bush_cheney2004]

Well, if they are already dying, what can we do ? Order more body bags ?

[Michael Hardner]

Globalization has been the best thing to happen to poverty and hunger, which says volumes about humanity I think.

[bush_cheney2004]

Globalization has been the best thing to happen to poverty and hunger, which says volumes about humanity I think.

Agreed...far fewer five year olds are dying because of this. We are doing plenty, just not enough for some.

[TimG]

Globalization has been the best thing to happen to poverty and hunger, which says volumes about humanity I think.

Not just globalization - fossil fuels have made it economic to transport food to the people that need it. A world without cheap transportation would be a world with many more children starving.

[GostHacked]

Agreed...far fewer five year olds are dying because of this. We are doing plenty, just not enough for some.

With eugenics programs from the likes of the Gates foundation (population reduction, planned parenthood GMO and food control), there are fewer children being born. By default that means less 5 yr olds will be dieing.

Globalization has done wonders for international bankers and corporations. Not so much for the average person.

[guyser]

With the wonderful idiocy of the Catholic Church, lots of kids in Africa are dieing of AIDS.

Yay....or something like that.

[waldo]

With eugenics programs from the likes of the Gates foundation (population reduction, planned parenthood GMO and food control), there are fewer children being born. By default that means less 5 yr olds will be dieing.

you used the word euthanize improperly in another concurrently running thread... I'd suggest you (also) learn what eugenics means.

[Topaz]

Speaking of diseases, remember all those shots we had as kids and then our kids also had some in high school... how many boomers have had their booster shots every ten years since. I haven't found one that I have asked and doctors don't seem to be up on it either.

[Michael Hardner]

Globalization has done wonders for international bankers and corporations. Not so much for the average person.

That's incorrect. World trade has lifted many millions out of abject poverty, which is what I was referring to in my post.

[The_Squid]

Birth control, ensuring a food supply and reducing over-population is not "eugenics" . That's crazy tinfoil on head conspiracy idiocy...

[Shady]

That's incorrect. World trade has lifted many millions out of abject poverty, which is what I was referring to in my post.

Exactly. But it's easier for some to throw around bumper sticker slogans than take part in any critical thinking. Critical thinking takes effort.

[-TSS-]

There is a clear correlation between a sustainable birth-rate and allowing girls to go to school.

[WestCoastRunner]

According to the World Health Organization, a child's risk of dying is highest in the first 28 days of life (44%). Safe childbirth and effective neonatal care are essential to prevent these deaths. If we can reach these countries where this occurs and provide these necessities, it would go a long way to reduce the number of infant deaths.

[WestCoastRunner]

There is a clear correlation between a sustainable birth-rate and allowing girls to go to school.

Those girls will one day become mothers and there is also a clear correlation between educated mothers and reduced infant deaths.

[jacee]

Now imagine if all 7 million dying children were laying in front of you right now: would you let them die as you do now or would you do everything in your power to stop this?

There is little outsiders can do other than provide band aids when a particularly acute crisis hits and even then band aids can cause more harm than good by creating a culture of dependency.

Are you a real person TimG, or just a TalkingPoint BOT?!?!?

.

Edited February 13, 2014 by jacee

[Rue]

Guyser your shot at the Catholic Church with due respect missed the point. People have as many children as possible in the third and fourth world because they have no safety net. The more children they have, themore likely one survives to grow up to look after the parents when they are infirm and old.

That's the reality in most of the world still today.

The other reality and I am glad Moonlight presented it as he did, is that the majority of these deaths are from dirty water and lack of nutrition. He is dead on. Diaheria is the no.1 killer .Children die because the water is dirt and their malnourished bodies can't fight off infections you and I can.

Actually it could be much of that diaheria is from the fact that its cholera and e-coli which is all part of it.

So I think the challenge of Moonlight's question should haunt all of us but I can only answer him with an attempt to try repeat what Lola Hitchmanova of the Unitarian Services Committee used to teach and who I met once and thought of as a magnificent women for her work in this area.

She taught that all people need basic water, food and shelter. In the hierarchy of needs without those three taken care of, nothing can evolve.

After those three, then a way to live by trading and sharing. That simple yet that complex. Then education.

What we have done is to throw money at corrupt governments who intercept the aid and it never gets to the people.

The biggest enemy of third and fourth world people are their own governments.

Then in our zeal to help we brain drain them. The cream of their crop so to speak are attracted to our countries and are never to return and so the people needed to build their countries, the doctors, architects, scientists come to our countries to drive taxis and never return.

Look we have the very same issues in Canada in that we can not get our own doctors to go live up North. Its human nature to flee from hardship and not return to it.

I wish I had easy answers for Moonlight but all I can say is this. I support charities like the Unitarian Service Committee because they do grass roots projects such as secure fresh water, shelter, food, basic projects that can make food , dispose of sewage away from the water supply and provide education. Very basic, very grass roots but possible and it does not even take that much money.

Next I love the idea of Physicians/Doctors without borders, doctors who donate a few months each year. They have saved millions of lives.

Instead of simply sending money to corrupt governments, I believe in sending our people with water purification programs, education tools, knowledge in building roads, ditches, homes to donate their time and oversee how the money is allocated.

I always loved the Kennedy idea of Peace Corps type initiatives. I was in one that sent young Jews onto the West Bank to dig sewage ditches for Palestinians and I used to bring medical supplies to Palestinian mothers and clean the infected toes of Palestinian children. It was a way to show Jews were not animals to Palestinians and break down the barriers of mistrust. When you work with someone on basic good, health and water needs it strips all the bullsheeyit ego nad makes you understand what is important.

Me personally I am against any charity that places conditions especially religious ones on its help. I love the Salvation Army because they willnever say to a non Christian, I won't help you unless you convert first/I have problems with World Vision for that reason.

Yes I do have problems with not just Catholic but any religious charities using the charity as a tool to convert. Its wrong.

When you help you must do so with no conditions attached and if the people reject you, you must leave.

I have helped in projects in Haiti and Central America and it was always very basic, simple things like building homes, outhouses, sewer ditches, nothing fancy. Maybe it was as simple as bringing down recycled medical equipment we no longer use in Canada but down in these countries is a life saver.

Its surprising how easy it is to help if you don't patronize and presume to be superior and know what is better and you just listen and go where you are asked and do what you are asked.

On the other hand when a massive genocide goes on as in Sudan or Rwanda, Mail or Syria, charity can't get in. People are killed and all the supplies stolen.

In some cases people will die in mass slaughters and so in Canada we assuage our guilt feelings by creating a refugee system that makes us feellike we are doing something while in fact that refugee system is a joke-its just a scam to bring in tomorrow's marginalized workers to clean our toilets and make us feel good about saving people.

I worked in the federal government in that area and I was overcome by presumptuous civil servants thinking they were missionaries saving savages from heathen worlds. It was liberal racism at its worst.

I think we need to create grass roots projects that teach people how to sustain basic water and food gathering activities.

The reality is the obsession with controlling population is not going to work until you deal with the other problems first.When people can eat and live longer, they stop having as many children.

AIDS has wiped out huge populations in Africa and Asia but in the grand scheme of things its just another disease like cholera that kills because we have not learned to evolve past certain practices.

Desertification is not just caused by corrupt multi-nationals, its caused by corrupt people in Indonesia, Brazil, etc., burning down the remaining growth for instant profit.

Greed, corruption how do you remove the greedy and corrupt from the third and fourth world? How do we stop humans from preying on the most vulnerable? Well the answer is not one anyone wants to here and it would mean those of us in the first world would have to cut and scale way back on our consumption of certain goods that these corrupt and greedy exploit from these countries to feed us.

Are we going to cut back on certain needs we grow up just assuming have to be met?

You think the average Canadian wants to hear theamount of garbage we throw out a year can be recycled to feed most of these 7 million? Once we throw things out into the growing garbage mounds its out of site and out of mind.

I see new Canadians in my neighbourhood throwing out garbage they would never in their own countries. They don't take too long to buy into our bad habits.

I am a big supporter of Foster Parent's Plan, the Unitarian Service Committee, and many other charities. People can at this moment go on the web-site and find a charity to help. It doesn't take much money or time either. Volunteering in Canada or overseas is also something that can really change your life.

But I do not presume to tell anyone anything. These are just my opinions. because I think Moonlight's question challenges and its a challenge that

deserves to be asked again and again ,

[-TSS-]

Africa today is more or less in the same position as Europe 200 years ago; namely, if a family has eight children there is a likelihood that 5-6 of them reach adulthood.

[cybercoma]

Critical thinking takes effort.

How would you know?

[carepov]

7 million children under age 5 die each year from preventable illness & diseases such as diarrhea, measles, & malnutrition. Now imagine if all 7 million dying children were laying in front of you right now: would you let them die as you do now or would you do everything in your power to stop this?

-------------------------

I'm not prescribing any specific solution to this problem, which is very complex. I'm saying that the fact that most of us allow this (not to mention many other atrocities) to continue is an absolute moral outrage that should not continue, and I'm saying that we ignore it because "out of sight, out of mind" and "ignorance is bliss". If we were all confronted face-to-face with this suffering & horror, like in the scenario above, most of us would be morally compelled to do anything we could to help. Personally, if I saw such a scene I would sell every non-essential thing I owned to provide the food & medicine etc. for these kids.

So again: If all 7 million dying children were laying in front of you right now: would you let them die as you do now or would you do everything in your power to stop this? Please explain your answer, as well as if we should be changing our current response to this global reality despite not personally witnessing these tragedies.

To me, there is no significant difference between seeing the deaths of children live, on a screen, or imagining them. "Out of sight out of mind" does not apply for me and obviously the bliss of ignorance is not an option for anyone discussing this issue.

I would not change my way of life if I actually saw all 7 million kids dying live. I don't really understand why you would. I think that most people adapt and normalize to their environment and then carry on, like doctors and other humanitarian aid workers.

I do feel lucky and guilty for having a privileged life while so many suffer, however, I live with my guilt just fine.

I do not think we should accept the status quo and we should all "do what we can" to help, at the very least:

1. ensure that you and your dependants do not end up as one of the dying poor

2. ensure that the actions taken by you and those you support are not worsening the problem

3. get out of the way of those that are helping and support them

This is why I feel strongly about Greenpeace’s crime against humanity in blocking the development of Golden Rice (see other thread).

I am also very pissed off at people that want to block free trade deals and foreign investment for under-developed countries.

[bush_cheney2004]

I would not change my way of life if I actually saw all 7 million kids dying live. I don't really understand why you would. I think that most people adapt and normalize to their environment and then carry on, like doctors and other humanitarian aid workers.

Agreed, as no mention was made of the 40 to 50 MILLION abortions performed each year to "aid" in the "efficient" allocation of scarce resources.

[waldo]

This is why I feel strongly about Greenpeaces crime against humanity in blocking the development of Golden Rice (see other thread).

you didn't support that claim in the other thread. A principled stand against GMO (at large), while offering alternatives to Golden Rice, does not meet the measure of your repeated (and unsubstantiated) claims of a "crime against humanity"... that GP has/is blocking the development of Golden Rice... no matter how many times you parrot Patrick Moore and/or repeat that claim.

[carepov]

you didn't support that claim in the other thread. A principled stand against GMO (at large), while offering alternatives to Golden Rice, does not meet the measure of your repeated (and unsubstantiated) claims of a "crime against humanity"... that GP has/is blocking the development of Golden Rice... no matter how many times you parrot Patrick Moore and/or repeat that claim.

Fact: Golden Rice is being developed to prevent VAD

Fact: GP is getting in the way

Fact: this pisses me off

[waldo]

Fact: nothing you said supports your mega-hyperbolic claims of GP committing a "crime against humanity"... that GP has/is blocking the development of Golden Rice. Again, "A principled stand against GMO (at large), while offering alternatives to Golden Rice, does not meet the measure of your repeated (and unsubstantiated) claims of a "crime against humanity"... that GP has/is blocking the development of Golden Rice".