The_Squid Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Humans have been around for about 250,000 years. For 248,000 years no one had heard of Jesus and God didn't make His presence "known" for most of that time either. If the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus, then is everyone else in the entire history of mankind languishing in hell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Augustine certainly believed so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Squid, humans have only been around for around 6000 years, what are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Everybody knows the Hellmouth is in Sunnydale... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted August 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Squid, humans have only been around for around 6000 years, what are you talking about? Haha... Ok... Let's assume you are correct... what about 4,000 years before the J-man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Haha... Ok... Let's assume you are correct... what about 4,000 years before the J-man? The large majority of humans that ever lived, lived between 2000 years ago and today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted August 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) The large majority of humans that ever lived, lived between 2000 years ago and today. Even if that is true, it isn't relevant to the question. Edited August 23, 2013 by The_Squid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Hell's more fun anyway. I saw it on South Park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Haha... Ok... Let's assume you are correct... what about 4,000 years before the J-man? I would like to think they got an exemption since there was no prerequisite for the entrance when they applied... but then again, this the God of the New Testament we're talking about. Not exactly known for his benevolence. Where is Betsy when you need her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 I think that Catholics have an escape clause for people who can't be baptized in the concept of limbo. In the theology of the Catholic Church, Limbo (Latin limbus, edge or boundary, referring to the "edge" of Hell) is a speculative idea about the afterlife condition of those who die in Original Sin without being assigned to the Hell of the Damned. Limbo is not an official doctrine of the Catholic Church or any other Christian denomination. I have no idea what any of this has to do with dancing under a stick after you've had too much to drink; thereby hurting your back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Augustine certainly believed so. Seriously? haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Humans have been around for about 250,000 years. For 248,000 years no one had heard of Jesus and God didn't make His presence "known" for most of that time either. If the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus, then is everyone else in the entire history of mankind languishing in hell? If Jesus was the great guy he seemed like in the Bible, he wouldn't condemn people to hell like that for such a stupid reason. I'm sure he'd give his dad some advice. The people who wrote the 4 gospels in the New Testament never met Jesus nor heard him speak, so I can't believe what they wrote has so much authority on people's core beliefs, and many people take it so literally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Seriously? haha. Yeah. It's an old theory about the nature of humanity and God. The belief goes that we were banished from the garden and our life here is our punishment for original sin. We're separated from God and that in itself is hell. God may choose to give Grace to some, but it's ultimately up to Him. Otherwise, we live out our just punishment for disobeying His word. So it's not the mythical fire and brimstone hell, but a different definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted August 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) Yeah. It's an old theory about the nature of humanity and God. The belief goes that we were banished from the garden and our life here is our punishment for original sin. We're separated from God and that in itself is hell. God may choose to give Grace to some, but it's ultimately up to Him. Otherwise, we live out our just punishment for disobeying His word. So it's not the mythical fire and brimstone hell, but a different definition.That doesn't seem nearly so bad... I like it here. And sending people to hell because you haven't revealed yourself to them is petty and stupid. Some people believe that you'll go to hell if someone didn't get around to baptizing you, even if you are a baby. That's a vile belief... Edited August 23, 2013 by The_Squid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accountability Now Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Haha... Ok... Let's assume you are correct... what about 4,000 years before the J-man? According to the Old Testament, God intervened with humans from the start with Adam and Eve. Who knows when that was! Of course, there were other interventions such as Noah and Moses with the latter being the start of 'rules' to live by.(ie the 10 commandments). The website below says that Moses was around 1300 years before Jesus so that somewhat accounts for the 4k you ask about. Just as imporantly, other religions have been around for a long part of that too. I find the evolution of the various religions to be the most fasicnating as they all seem to stem from the same basic principles. http://www.avesta.org/timeline.htm Wow...it looks like catholic school did teach me something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 That doesn't seem nearly so bad... I like it here. And sending people to hell because you haven't revealed yourself to them is petty and stupid. Some people believe that you'll go to hell if someone didn't get around to baptizing you, even if you are a baby. That's a vile belief... They believe that because our punishment from God is just, due to original sin. All of humanity is the product of sin, so we are all punished from birth. There are many Protestants that believe there's no way of knowing who is saved and who isn't. You can't know God's will and it's just whether he saves you or not because we're all being punished for Adam and Eve's disobedience. I don't ascribe to the stuff, but that's the justification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 In the interest of not spending too much time on it, I'm way oversimplifying all of this of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted August 24, 2013 Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 They believe that because our punishment from God is just, due to original sin. All of humanity is the product of sin, so we are all punished from birth. There are many Protestants that believe there's no way of knowing who is saved and who isn't. You can't know God's will and it's just whether he saves you or not because we're all being punished for Adam and Eve's disobedience. I don't ascribe to the stuff, but that's the justification. Yup. Basically god tricked Eve into eating forbidden fruit by making a snake to talk her into it. What weasily little dick of a diety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 I'm definitely going to hell. I can't speak for everybody else though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accountability Now Posted August 26, 2013 Report Share Posted August 26, 2013 Yup. Basically god tricked Eve into eating forbidden fruit by making a snake to talk her into it. What weasily little dick of a diety. Not sure if I would agree with tricked but certainly presented her the option. My understanding and I guess what I believe is the entire apple thing was a lesson on free will. God could have easily put forces in place to keep Eve from even going to the apple but allowed her to make the decision. If you were to ask me, that is what makes life great is that we get to choose which direction to go. How special would that be if God just forced everyone to do the right thing all the time? Its like when a parent makes a kid share their candy versus that kid offering it up on his own. I don't agree that everything we do is now sinful. I think the apple shows us that we have the ability to choose between right and wrong and that its not forced upon us either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Interesting how that "lesson" has been used to subjugate women ever since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 (edited) Not sure if I would agree with tricked but certainly presented her the option. My understanding and I guess what I believe is the entire apple thing was a lesson on free will. God could have easily put forces in place to keep Eve from even going to the apple but allowed her to make the decision. If you were to ask me, that is what makes life great is that we get to choose which direction to go. How special would that be if God just forced everyone to do the right thing all the time? Its like when a parent makes a kid share their candy versus that kid offering it up on his own. I don't agree that everything we do is now sinful. I think the apple shows us that we have the ability to choose between right and wrong and that its not forced upon us either way. No no no... The apple was there, and Eve had a the choice to eat it or not. But that wasnt good enough... God had to make the talking snake to encourage her to eat the fruit. Based on all the biblical accounts I have read, this "god" is a pathetic, dishonest, egotistical, genocidal maniac. A real douche-bag. He murdered the entire human race besides Noah because a few people were having anal sex. He killed everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah because there were a few fags there, and some people were having sex for fun. Even based on the description of god in religious texts, this guy is the biggest scum-bag in all of human history. Edited August 27, 2013 by dre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Interesting how that "lesson" has been used to subjugate women ever since. Lots of reasons are used to subjugate women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 (edited) All mentions of Hell in the Bible are just earthly personifications of it. Ultimately it's eternal separation from God. I would find it very difficult to believe, in so far as believing in God and an afterlife, that God would create souls just to cast them into a lake of fire for eternity if they didn't meet a certain unclear standard. If someone is worthy of Hell, perhaps an awareness of their falling and then an ultimate deletion of their soul would be a more appropriate punishment. It's ultimately was they've decided on by not believing anyway. Edited August 27, 2013 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accountability Now Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 No no no... The apple was there, and Eve had a the choice to eat it or not. But that wasnt good enough... God had to make the talking snake to encourage her to eat the fruit. Based on all the biblical accounts I have read, this "god" is a pathetic, dishonest, egotistical, genocidal maniac. A real douche-bag. He murdered the entire human race besides Noah because a few people were having anal sex. He killed everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah because there were a few fags there, and some people were having sex for fun. Even based on the description of god in religious texts, this guy is the biggest scum-bag in all of human history. Free will is free will regardless of tempation. She made the choice. She didn't have a gun pointed to her head nor was she forced in any way to do it. She was tempted much like people today are tempted to do a lot of things that aren't good for them. It seems clear that 'all the biblical accounts' you have read come only from the Old Testament which all are lessons on why we should be God fearing. Respect the almighty powerful.....oooooohhhh. However, you either haven't read or convenienty missed out on the teaching of the New Testament where you see the benevolent side. All this being said, the one thing that you have to remember with the Bible is that it was written by the hand of man...and therefore is NOT perfect. (I get in trouble when I agrue this with fanatics but I believe it to be true). They continue to find scrolls that change how ancient writings and their meanings are translated. I think it was just over 100 years ago they found out two ancient Hebrew letters were being mixed up. So we have to believe that errors still exist in the Bible if one was only to take a literal translation. For example, you bring up Noah and how God killed the entire human race for a few people having anal sex. First....were you there to know it was just a few people having anal sex? Is that ALL it was? Seems the bible and perhaps history would suggest it was a bit more corrupt that that. Secondly....historians are starting to realize that context is very important when reading biblical text. When they say "all the people"....that means all the people in their land (at that time) which was between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. They didn't know about any other parts of the world so keep that in mind. It is also very possible that the Tigris and Euphrates could actually flood that area enough to wipe it out....but not the entire world. Its all about context but its clear that your disdain for religion is already biased based on your own experiences so I really should waste my time suggesting you take something and keep it in context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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