Egypt & Syria - Three Thoughts

[August1991]

First. Bush Jnr was perhaps right to start the Iraq war because it broke the status quo. Too often, western diplomatic/politicians want to promote the "peace process" or ensure "stability" in the region. What good did Mubarak or Saddam bring to the region? Maybe change is better.

Second, mobs and democracy. I now agree with Ann Coulter: the French revolution was a mob; the American revolution was an organized insurgency. In Egypt and Syria, we are seeing the actions of a mob - not democracy. But in Morsi, we arguably saw the modern definition of democracy: 50% +1. As they said in Algeria, you will have a democratic election, but only one. I will stay with my basic definition of a democratic state: government power changes hands between visceral opponents peacefully. (I would add that in a a civilised state, the majority respects the minority but that confuses things.)

By my definition, no country in the Middle East is democratic except Israel.

Third, these popular revolts in Syria and Egypt will likely occur elsewhere, most notably in Saudi Arabia. Underneath all, I suspect that male sexual frustration is a driving force. Islam hides women, and makes them expensive. To understand this in the North American context, ask yourself this question: What would happen to the price of a used car (eg, a Mustang 64) if you could only own one car - as opposed to being allowed to own four?

Edited August 15, 2013 by August1991

[Hudson Jones]

I'm going to attempt to breakdown your thoughts. I just have so many questions as many of your comments seem to be way out there with misinformation:

First. Bush Jnr was perhaps right to start the Iraq war because it broke the status quo. Too often, western diplomatic/politicians want to promote the "peace process" or ensure "stability" in the region. What good did Mubarak or Saddam bring to the region? Maybe change is better.

But Saddam was best pals with the U.S. All throughout his cruel treatment of its own people. All through the chemical weapons attacks against the Kurds and Iranians. Why was that? Why did he suddenly become enemy?

Saddam was removed by an invasion and Mubarak by popular revolt.

Second, mobs and democracy. I now agree with Ann Coulter: the French revolution was a mob; the American revolution was an organized insurgency. In Egypt and Syria, we are seeing the actions of a mob - not democracy.

You agree with Ann Coulter? The American revolution was not a revolution?

The Syrian opposition are funded by outsiders, such as the Saudis, Sudanese and other Arab Sunni groups. They are also being given intelligence and training by the Israelis and Americans.

But in Morsi, we arguably saw the modern definition of democracy: 50% +1.

Are you talking about Morsi coming into power or out of power. In case you were talking about Morsi losing power, we saw a coup d'état.

By my definition, no country in the Middle East is democratic except Israel.

What about them Turks?

Underneath all, I suspect that male sexual frustration is a driving force. Islam hides women, and makes them expensive. To understand this in the North American context, ask yourself this question: What would happen to the price of a used car if you could only own one car - as opposed to owning four?

Eh? Okay then.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Hudson Jones

[August1991]

Eh? Okay then.

Hudson Jones, you describe yourself as male but age-unknown. I'm going to bet that you're under 30.

Have you ever lived in Damascus, Cairo or Riyadh? Do you know what it is like for a young, single, ordinary male in such cities?

[Hint: All the rich guys can buy four.]

[Hudson Jones]

Hudson Jones, you describe yourself as male but age-unknown. I'm going to bet that you're under 30.

Have you ever lived in Damascus, Cairo or Riyadh? Do you know what it is like for a young, single, ordinary male in such cities?

[Hint: All the rich guys can buy four.]

Why don't you pay attention to the rest of the post you made and comments towards them. Many of your comments are incomplete and plain wrong. From the posts I have read from you, it's obvious to me that age doesn't necessarily bring wisdom and knowledge.

[Hudson Jones]

It's difficult to have a debate with someone who sees things through bigotry and contempt and who has very little knowledge of what is actually happening. Here are some delicious images from Egypt and its counter democratic revolution. This is what the American backed and funded military is doing to its own people.

[August1991]

It's difficult to have a debate with someone who sees things through bigotry and contempt and who has very little knowledge of what is actually happening. Here are some delicious images from Egypt and its counter democratic revolution. This is what the American backed and funded military is doing to its own people.

America? Americans are responsible for this?

BTW, I'm Canadian.

-----

Hudson Jones, do you deny that male sexual frustration plays a major part in the Islamic world nowadays?

Aside from your images, what does a young man in Egypt have to pay in dowry?

Edited August 15, 2013 by August1991

[Hudson Jones]

America? Americans are responsible for this?

BTW, I'm Canadian.

-----

Hudson Jones, do you deny that male sexual frustration plays a major part in the Islamic world nowadays?

Aside from your images, what does a young man in Egypt have to pay in dowry?

Alright. Let's forget about all the misinformation that I questioned and corrected and talk about male sexual frustration.

The answer is that I don't know. Has there been research done on whether the lack of premarital sex can create frustration to the point that people have mob revolts? Has there been a study on every one of those countries in regards to have often the men have sex? Are they all having the same amount of sex?

It's difficult for me to see every Arab male as a sexually frustrated person who is releasing his frustration by engaging in unorganized mob revolts.

[Shady]

The carnage going on in Egypt right now is a direct result of Obama's removal of an ally leader for no good reason.

[GostHacked]

Hudson Jones, you describe yourself as male but age-unknown. I'm going to bet that you're under 30.

Have you ever lived in Damascus, Cairo or Riyadh? Do you know what it is like for a young, single, ordinary male in such cities?

[Hint: All the rich guys can buy four.]

By that same argument, do you know what it is like? None of us really know what it is like. We all see what the news tells us. Unless you are going over there yourself, or looking at all the information none of us really know wtf is going on.

But if you want to define a democracy as 50% +1, Canada and the USA are not democracy, as elected leaders can get less than 50% of the vote and still be leader of the country.

[DogOnPorch]

August has been through the area if I recall.

[Shady]

Does anyone remember what Obama's reason for pushing out Mubarek? An ally in a difficult part of the world.

[DogOnPorch]

Does anyone remember what Obama's reason for pushing out Mubarek? An ally in a difficult part of the world.

Too much listening to CAIR.

[August1991]

It's difficult for me to see every Arab male as a sexually frustrated person who is releasing his frustration by engaging in unorganized mob revolts.

Maybe not every male, but I would say many.

If you look carefully at the videos, there are no women in the streets.

----

In Egypt, the dowry is high and many young men dream to go abroad to earn money.

In the Middle East in general, many young women want to meet men, and many young men want to meet them, but tradition/religion make the negotiation difficult. Maybe this Egyptian revolt will make negotiations easier but I fear that it won't.

Edited August 17, 2013 by August1991

[bleeding heart]

Does anyone remember what Obama's reason for pushing out Mubarek? An ally in a difficult part of the world.

"Pushing him out"?

Obama, like most everybody else, waited until the writing was on the wall, until it was a done deal, before offering some tepid "support" for the uprising.

Until it could make no difference, he followed precisely your preferred policy of hoping the dictator would stay in place. That is, he largely agrees with you that every country's domestic situation should be beneficial to US policy interests rather than what the people there might want. In the usual elitist formulation.

Since this is your preferred policy, I don't see why you're not applauding Obama..

[dre]

"Pushing him out"?

Obama, like most everybody else, waited until the writing was on the wall, until it was a done deal, before offering some tepid "support" for the uprising.

Until it could make no difference, he followed precisely your preferred policy of hoping the dictator would stay in place. That is, he largely agrees with you that every country's domestic situation should be beneficial to US policy interests rather than what the people there might want. In the usual elitist formulation.

Since this is your preferred policy, I don't see why you're not applauding Obama..

Maybe Shady is getting his information from Anthrax Annie.

[bleeding heart]

Ms. Coulter does this sort of thing from time to time.

"You have spoken of the heroism of Pat Tilman, whom you said was "virtuous and pure, as only an American male can be." But Tilman was an admirer of Noam Chomsky, and his mother has said that he had made arrangements to meet with the leftist professor."

Coulter: "No, I don't believe it."

"Well, his mother made the claim, and Mr. Chomsky confirms it."

Coulter: "No, I just don't believe that."

But then...how could she, possibly?

Edited August 18, 2013 by bleeding heart

[Boges]

Apparently the MB are targeting Coptic Christians as part of their "protest".

http://www.globalresearch.ca/egypt-al-qaeda-and-muslim-brotherhood-mobs-burn-christian-coptic-churches/5346207

Are they really the victims of a savage military dictatorship like it would appear the media is portraying them as?

Seems like they are more of the aggressors. Again none of this is a surprise.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Boges

[eyeball]

Obama, like most everybody else, waited until the writing was on the wall, until it was a done deal, before offering some tepid "support" for the uprising.

I'm reminded of how our government waited until the writing was on the wall about residential schools and why the dysfunction its past crimes continue to haunt the future of the people who were abused by geo-political diddling.

The so-called Arab-Springs reveal how, along with the region's natural resources, the good will necessary to overcome the hard places these societies now find themselves have been stripped away by decades of abuse and foreign interference.

Geo-political diddling should be considered one of the worst crimes against humanity that a nation can commit. It's the ultimate 'gift' that keeps on giving.

Edited August 19, 2013 by eyeball

[GostHacked]

Geo-political diddling should be considered one of the worst crimes against humanity that a nation can commit. It's the ultimate 'gift' that keeps on giving.

It's still giving in Iraq. Weekly bombings killing scores of people every time.

[DogOnPorch]

It's still giving in Iraq. Weekly bombings killing scores of people every time.

So the Syrian Civil War and Shia vs Sunni strife is the West's fault?

Edited August 19, 2013 by DogOnPorch

[eyeball]

At least as much our's as it is Russia's fault. It took two to tango in the past and we're all still trying to dance around our complicity and hoping no one will notice to this very day.

[DogOnPorch]

At least as much our's as it is Russia's fault. It took two to tango in the past and we're all still trying to dance around our complicity and hoping no one will notice to this very day.

So we're not meddling enough? Or had we not been meddling, there would be peace throughout the Middle East? Or what?

[Shady]

"Pushing him out"?

Obama, like most everybody else, waited until the writing was on the wall, until it was a done deal, before offering some tepid "support" for the uprising.

Until it could make no difference, he followed precisely your preferred policy of hoping the dictator would stay in place. That is, he largely agrees with you that every country's domestic situation should be beneficial to US policy interests rather than what the people there might want. In the usual elitist formulation.

Since this is your preferred policy, I don't see why you're not applauding Obama..

No, my preferred policy isn't to remove allies from power. That's Obama's idiotic policy. And Egypt's blow up is his doing. "Mubarek must go" - Barack Obama.

[bleeding heart]

No, my preferred policy isn't to remove allies from power. That's Obama's idiotic policy. And Egypt's blow up is his doing. "Mubarek must go" - Barack Obama.

The uprising was in full swing, Mubarak's ouster was a given...which is why Obama offered his politically-convenient response.

For someone who thinks the "blame the West" mentality is some sort of perversion, you sure indulge in it a lot, Shady...so long as those you misperceive as "the left" are in power.

[Boges]

Obama didn't do anything to facilitate the removal of Mubarak unlike with Libya.

Lessons learned with Syria because the West (other than Russia who's quasi-West) has let that war fester for awhile.