Egypt & Syria - Three Thoughts

[DogOnPorch]

I figured you would. In retrospect, I suppose you were interested in GH's take on it?

Yes.

[eyeball]

\That's my understanding of it. But, it's rather comical to view it as a pack of (non-Iranian) James Bonds in trench coats overthrowing a democratically leader...which is how it is now commonly portrayed.

It's definitely more appropriate to regard them as diddlers and criminals against humanity.

So how come so many old cold-war boosters seem so soft on them damn Russkies in today's world? The willingness to justify and apologize now for the awful things we've done to counter Russia in the past doesn't square with the free pass it seems to get in the present, for it's support of people like Assad for example.

Your understanding of the coup is just as skewed. Our role in it was every bit as venally motivated as any damn Russkie.

Oh look, there goes another homo off to the rainbow gulag. Tsk tsk.

[Rue]

...The only reason our civilization hasn't broken down to the extent it has elsewhere is that we've exported the worst of our fanatics - the diddlers for example - abroad.

I suspect there's still a lot of blow-back coming our way. We'll see how long our civilization bears up under that.

Uh no. If you take a look at the stats, the diddlers only go to visit and gain access to the children. Once they are done they come right back and keep going to church and continuing their double lives as married heterosexuals in the suburbs.

Diddlers do look in their own neighbourhoods for prey but if they have money they prefer to use that money to diddle overseas because the physical distance from their diddling reinforces their psychological denial and compartmentalization of their behaviour. It means they can better live two separate lives and not get caught.

Unfortunately with the internet the way it is today, you can be connected up to children all over the world and soon travel there on junkets to diddle them and quickly fly back to the comforts of home.

If you diddle in Sri Lanka or Thailand for too long, someone wants a kickback to protect you or they kill you-so you keep moving.

While we are at it, in Afghanistan diddling underage boys is considered a normal pastime for the elders. The point being some of these overseas nations have their own cultures of diddling and didn't just become hosts to our own diddlers.

Diddle tourism where diddlers go one junkets to Sri Lanka, Thailand, Morrocco, Brazil, bring in billions of dollars in income for the governments that protect these diddle businesses.

The UN is used to protect these diddle tourism zones. Want to diddle try any third world nation but in Braziil, Thailand and Sri Lanka they have nice beaches and all these enterprises are protected by the police.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Rue

[eyeball]

Rue, you do realize don't you that I when I refer to diddling in the context of geopolitics that I mean big powerful nations interfering with smaller weaker nations? I merely refer to them as diddlers to bring a more appropriate connotation to their evil deeds.

That said your comparison to the enormous wealth and power that our interfering causes is close to the mark except that most of the wealth comes back with our diddlers. The little bit that is left behind is to pay off the dictators and tyrants that facilitate the diddling/interference.

[DogOnPorch]

It's definitely more appropriate to regard them as diddlers and criminals against humanity.

So how come so many old cold-war boosters seem so soft on them damn Russkies in today's world? The willingness to justify and apologize now for the awful things we've done to counter Russia in the past doesn't square with the free pass it seems to get in the present, for it's support of people like Assad for example.

Your understanding of the coup is just as skewed. Our role in it was every bit as venally motivated as any damn Russkie.

Oh look, there goes another homo off to the rainbow gulag. Tsk tsk.

In 1949, the Tudeh Party...that's Mossaddeq's party...attempted to assassinate the Shah. I'd say the lines were already drawn for a future showdown.

The West's role was predictable given Mossaddeq's actions. This was the height of the McCarthy Era. Nationalize oil wells and befriend the Soviets at one's peril. Had the combined National Front pressed the conflict further, there could have been another Viet-Nam-like war.

The Soviet Union's role in Iran is a matter of history...I'm not sure what you're going on about. Are you denying that things like the Persian Corridor existed or what?

[eyeball]

The West's role flew in the face of it's stated principles. Every single thing that evades, dodges or tries to squirm out from under that is crap.

[August1991]

Rue, you do realize don't you that I when I refer to diddling in the context of geopolitics that I mean big powerful nations interfering with smaller weaker nations? I merely refer to them as diddlers to bring a more appropriate connotation to their evil deeds.

Aside from any definition of "diddling", define "big powerful" and "smaller weaker".

I really don't care how the Iranian coup of 1953 came about, anymore than I care about the Chilean coup of 1973. If people want to run their own affairs, they can and they largely do. If we're talking about "diddling", the Turks occupied the Bulgarians for some five centuries yet the Bulgarian language, Christianity and their peculiar dance steps survived.

America long ago threw off a foreign yoke and decided its own affairs its own way. Despite a Treaty of Paris half a world away several centuries ago, people in Canada still speak French and go to Mass.

As if the Iranian coup of 1953 really changed anything...

IOW, the Middle East (and Iran) is rife with claims of foreigners meddling when in fact, it is the 5% of hothead whackos among their own population that (IMHO) causes all the grief. And these hothead whackos are sexually frustrated young men.

----

On the eve of his first election in 1968, Trudeau Snr stared down such louts. Later, he arrested a few. North America (and to some extent Europe) still has a few young lost males - but for the most part, they beg in streets or do drugs. Most are not frustrated. We certainly don't let them get the upper hand.

I think my point is that a small percentage of the population causes civil wars or violent uprisings. The rest of the population suffers the consequences. That is what we are seeing in Syria and Egypt now.

[Rue]

Rue, you do realize don't you that I when I refer to diddling in the context of geopolitics that I mean big powerful nations interfering with smaller weaker nations? I merely refer to them as diddlers to bring a more appropriate connotation to their evil deeds.

That said your comparison to the enormous wealth and power that our interfering causes is close to the mark except that most of the wealth comes back with our diddlers. The little bit that is left behind is to pay off the dictators and tyrants that facilitate the diddling/interference.

Yes and bang on. I was being tongue in cheek which you caught and especially your last comments. Totally agree.

As far as I am concerned the diddlers whether we talk pedophiles or these tyrants operate pretty much the same way protected by elaborate networks of financial interests behind them.

Sorry I went off a bit on that tangent. Focusing back to what you said, if I may use the analogy, China and Russia to me

are two of the worst diddlers out there supporting an elaborate network of sob's. Why does the media not criticize them for their

sordid role in protecting Syria, Sudan, Iran, Hezbollah.

There is China at the UN claiming we should all remain silent as the use of chemicals in Syria is an internal matter. Of course.

This is a nation that runs a police state that defies any standards of humanity. Russia-does anyone think Putin is anything but a leftover KGB thug? That is all Putin is-a sociopathic thug running a nation that runs on a black market economy-in effect a regime of anarchy with a bankrupt government and a bunch of organized criminals protected by Putin who run things.

Is it any wonder they support Iran and Syria, Hezbollah and any other police state tyrant available?

In any event Eye I obviously have a pro US bias I do not hide, but I think the entire world of international politics is one large diddling session and the permanent members of the UN security council are the biggest of all the diddlers

and that behind the diddling is the reality of oil and weapons sales and the world wide economic addiction to both as prime activities to sustain and grow wealth for interest groups.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Rue

[DogOnPorch]

The West's role flew in the face of it's stated principles. Every single thing that evades, dodges or tries to squirm out from under that is crap.

You're free to believe no Iranians were involved in Mossaddeq's coup.

[eyeball]

You're free to believe no Iranians were involved in Mossaddeq's coup.

No I'm not because reality doesn't support erroneous beliefs, something that doesn't seem to deter you from clinging to your own reification that this somehow excuses our diddling in Iran's affairs.

[DogOnPorch]

No I'm not because reality doesn't support erroneous beliefs, something that doesn't seem to deter you from clinging to your own reification that this somehow excuses our diddling in Iran's affairs.

What's to excuse? The CIA provided money and an aircraft in order to further the coup and whisk The Shah from place to place. My point is that Mossaddeq was already a goner even without the nationalizing of oil fields. If the coup hadn't happened in 1953, it would have happened later. With or without James Bond's assistance.

[eyeball]

Yes but the fact the west was involved at all is what's inflamed the ME and region and led to where things stand today.

Notice Operation Ajax also appears to have renewed a western taste for geo-political diddling that seemed to be waning in the wake of WW2 - it marked a definite departure from the higher road that many of us were led to believe the west was following. That is the thing for which there is no excuse. We knew better but we did it anyway. We overthrew a nascent democracy in favour of returning a vicious friendly dictator. It's a truly depraved thing we did - more like a deliberate flying leap from grace than a fall.

Edited August 30, 2013 by eyeball

[DogOnPorch]

Yes but the fact the west was involved at all is what's inflamed the ME and region and led to where things stand today.

Operation Ajax also appears to have renewed a western taste for diddling that seemed to have abated in the wake of WW2 - it marked a definite departure from the higher road that many of us were led to believe the west was taking in the scheme of things. That is the thing for which there is no excuse.

At the time it did the exact opposite of 'inflame'. That region was peaceful for the next 30 years. The Shah was putting the screws to the same idiots in power today.

[DogOnPorch]

We knew better but we did it anyway. We overthrew a nascent democracy in favour of returning a vicious friendly dictator. It's a truly depraved thing we did - more like a deliberate flying leap from grace than a fall.

The Shah...my dear eyeball...was already on the throne since 1941. Mossaddeq's goons tried to assassinate him in 1949. Mossaddeq's pro-Soviet Tudeh party was playing with fire by not only trying to KEEP the Russkies in Iran...but also, by STEALING Western owned oil wells. Heck...Mossaddeq & pals were 'diddling' in Azerbaijan. He got exactly what was coming to him in a very divided world. Get over it.

[Rue]

Eyeball throughout history there have been countries that diddle other countries. The history of the world is one act of non stop diddling. Countries that were diddled went on to diddle as well. It is the way of life unfortunately and today the UN is nothing but a network for diddlers to meet to find out who else to diddle.

It is impossible to be a virgin nation. Someone will diddle you at any given moment and the information age makes that so easy. You don't even have to send your diddlers in on the ground. You can send your pictures back and forth on the internet, etc.

Heck I can diddle anyone I just need a cell phone. The days of keeping your zipper done up are over. There is no privacy. None. Any one can have themselves diddled individually, collectively.

Countries now diddle on behalf of the large multi-nationals that control them.

And so?

Well if you are selective, you only see US diddling. Someone like me sees China as the biggest and most dangerous diddler and I have to ask this-who w ould you prefer diddling you-the US or China? When all is said and done do you want to be diddled by France, Britain, the US, or China, Russia or North Korea?

Let us look at a classic diddled people. Who would you prefer to be-South or North Korean. Both have been diddled? Where would you prefer to live?

Do any of you want to live in Tibet? When the Soviets diddled Hungary, East Germany, Bulgaria, Poland, etc., you want to tell me that diddling was more beneficial than the Western Euro nations under the Monroe doctrine of diddling?

In Canada we have totally allowed ourselves to be diddled by the US. 90% of our you know what is penetrated daily and dependent on US diddling.

Now me, I appreciate wherever you go someone is trying to diddle. The level and intensity of diddling is the question. The other question is whether that diddling has mutual benefit or its completely one sided.

The US has bloody hands over Allende and putting in Pinochet in Chile yes. It has propped miserable sob's in the Middle East and South America. Sure.

What country has not propped sob's? How long ago was it Britain, Italy and France were kissing Ghaddafi's patoot during their pre-diddly doo sessions to get oil?

I still remember Emperor For Life Jean Bidel Bokassa of the Central Afrcian Republic and his visits to France when the French were well aware he used to eat people mmm mmm delicious.

But hey y'all have to love that former Romanian dictator the Russians adored. Remember Coucescu? Yes sir apparently he had thousands of little commie girls at his beck and call thanks to the KGB the world's best diddling network.

Nwo you want king of the Diddler's? Was it Queen Elizabeth the First, Queen Victoria, Henry the VIIIth, Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, Lenin, Stalin...Nixon..who?

Come on. we can go to hell with this analogy in saying the world is one big perverted diddling arena.

The point is diddling does not happen in a vacuum. Its all about competing diddle networks vying for control of those they prey on. There's only so many diddlors for the diddlees to diddle so they clash with one another.

Kind of reminds me of a prison when you get the young cons sent in on the last Friday of the month and all the old diddlers line up justiopositioning to see who gets to diddle first and on whom they will diddle.

Not a pretty sight but it brings order to what would otherwise be chaos.

[August1991]

Rue, that's a very interesting history of military power used abroad, or geo-political "diddling".

My point is different. IMHO, many men in the Middle East are sexually frustrated. As a result, they turn their frustration to physical destruction, violence.

[sharkman]

First. Bush Jnr was perhaps right to start the Iraq war because it broke the status quo. Too often, western diplomatic/politicians want to promote the "peace process" or ensure "stability" in the region. What good did Mubarak or Saddam bring to the region? Maybe change is better.

Second, mobs and democracy. I now agree with Ann Coulter: the French revolution was a mob; the American revolution was an organized insurgency. In Egypt and Syria, we are seeing the actions of a mob - not democracy. But in Morsi, we arguably saw the modern definition of democracy: 50% +1. As they said in Algeria, you will have a democratic election, but only one. I will stay with my basic definition of a democratic state: government power changes hands between visceral opponents peacefully. (I would add that in a a civilised state, the majority respects the minority but that confuses things.)

By my definition, no country in the Middle East is democratic except Israel.

Third, these popular revolts in Syria and Egypt will likely occur elsewhere, most notably in Saudi Arabia. Underneath all, I suspect that male sexual frustration is a driving force. Islam hides women, and makes them expensive. To understand this in the North American context, ask yourself this question: What would happen to the price of a used car (eg, a Mustang 64) if you could only own one car - as opposed to being allowed to own four?

I missed this thread and only now skimmed through it. That's an interesting theory on sexual frustration and the Muslim male, I'd never considered such a thing and the typical knee jerk reaction to it is partly due to fear of bigotry I suppose. Yet the same school of thought is perfectly willing to look at Catholic priests and blame their failures on sexual frustration without feeling like a bigot.

I find myself generally agreeing with your 3 points.

[Guest American Woman]

Rue, that's a very interesting history of military power used abroad, or geo-political "diddling".

My point is different. IMHO, many men in the Middle East are sexually frustrated. As a result, they turn their frustration to physical destruction, violence.

Why would they be sexually frustrated? Seems to me men have the upper hand as women take a backseat to men, even when it comes to sex, marriage, and divorce, so how do you get "sexually frustrated" out of that?

[DogOnPorch]

Why would they be sexually frustrated? Seems to me men have the upper hand as women take a backseat to men, even when it comes to sex, marriage, and divorce, so how do you get "sexually frustrated" out of that?

The men are just as segregated as the women on that end.

[GostHacked]

We can ignore constant meddling by world powers over the last century and simply chalk it up to sexual frustration. This is a valid argument? Really?

[DogOnPorch]

We can ignore constant meddling by world powers over the last century and simply chalk it up to sexual frustration. This is a valid argument? Really?

Ask some of the ladies in Tahrir Square.

[GostHacked]

Ask some of the ladies in Tahrir Square.

Or we can ask ladies in Detroit. Rape only goes on in the Arab world? Stuff blowing up all around them and all they can think of is getting a little sexual frustration out by raping women?

Are you trying to insult my intelligence or yours?

[DogOnPorch]

Or we can ask ladies in Detroit. Rape only goes on in the Arab world? Stuff blowing up all around them and all they can think of is getting a little sexual frustration out by raping women?

Are you trying to insult my intelligence or yours?

Women are being gang raped outside Tiger Stadium? Do tell...

[GostHacked]

Women are being gang raped outside Tiger Stadium? Do tell...

This is about as dumb as the original statement that the Arabs are simply 'sexually frustrated'. This tactic you use is getting old. Need to try something else to get the reactions out of people when you are out on the boat.

'But GH what tactic' .... Yeah, that tactic.

[DogOnPorch]

Oh...we can play your game that it's all about Western meddling and we're no better than the fellows in Tahrir Square. It's why the mob kept screaming 'Jew' as they raped Lara Logan. Anger at Western meddling...