Boges Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Also Trudeau can't dictate how MJ is distributed across confederation. Alcohol and Tobacco are legal products but the way they are distributed vary across the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Also Trudeau can't dictate how MJ is distributed across confederation. Alcohol and Tobacco are legal products but the way they are distributed vary across the country. He can't control distribution, but he can decriminalize it and levy a federal tax against it. Provinces would likely move to control distribution, but there would likely be legal challenges and a long drawn-out mess with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 If trudeau wins and goes for it,it would be yrs before that happened. So really it is not going to happen. Oh really? Just look at Washington and Colorado if you want to see how fast it can happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Oh really? Just look at Washington and Colorado if you want to see how fast it can happen. A state is a lot different then a country with provinces and territories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 A state is a lot different then a country with provinces and territories. I don't see a big difference. It's just a country full of states. We are a country full of provinces. All JT is suggesting is a legal change from the top down rather than the bottom up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 I don't see a big difference. It's just a country full of states. We are a country full of provinces. All JT is suggesting is a legal change from the top down rather than the bottom up.The state made that decision, not the country. Understand now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 The state made that decision, not the country. Understand now. Correct. So what JT is talking about doing is making the same decision at the federal level. Get it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Correct. So what JT is talking about doing is making the same decision at the federal level. Get it?Can JT make that decision by himself and force it onto the provinces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Can JT make that decision by himself and force it onto the provinces. No. And if States in the US can make it legal, why can't a province like BC make that decision on its own? The Pot Buisness in Colorado is completely cash because using Pot is still a federal crime. The way the pot business appears to be in Colorado that model would never work in puritan Ontario, You can't even drink a beer in public here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 No. And if States in the US can make it legal, why can't a province like BC make that decision on its own? Because in Canada the criminal law is a federal matter. In the US, it's a state one. It's an issue of Constitution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Can JT make that decision by himself and force it onto the provinces. By himself, no. As a government, yes. I doubt the provinces would put up much of a fight. It's a bit of a useless law in any case. Not unlike the old abortion laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Can JT make that decision by himself and force it onto the provinces. By himself, no. As a government, yes. Criminal law is federal. I doubt the provinces would put up much of a fight in any case. When nobody obeys a law it's maybe time to get rid of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 By himself, no. As a government, yes. Criminal law is federal. I doubt the provinces would put up much of a fight in any case. When nobody obeys a law it's maybe time to get rid of it. It would be awesome if they did ignore the ruling so MJ would be legal but the provinces wouldn't apply their puritan regulations on the distribution of the product. But there's no money in that, so fat chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannuck Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) Do I think MJ should be legal? Consumption: yes, Cultivation and distribution: exactly as per alcohol, but I don't believe government has any business being IN business, be it distributing booze, other drugs or sick care. Edited October 21, 2014 by cannuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scared.In.Canada Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Yes, it should be fully legal to comsume, grow and be in posession of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 By himself, no. As a government, yes. Criminal law is federal. I doubt the provinces would put up much of a fight in any case. When nobody obeys a law it's maybe time to get rid of it.A lot of people ignore DUI laws ,should we ignore that one to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Comparing alcohol sales an distribution to potential pot sales and distribution is of folly IMHO. The overhead required to make really good alcohol is huge, not so much for pot. Black Dog educated me earlier in this thread that making pot isn't the same as growing any plant, which is fine, but it still easier than making good alcohol. Home brew is not good alcohol. I guess my job was incomplete, because my point was that it's as hard to grow quality weed at home as it is to make good hooch. Under the CAMH model the government will probably price themselves out of the market. A guy that used to deal pot could easily undercut the government. Only if he could still find a good supplier. Which, for reasons I've already pointed out, would be very difficult. And now that the product is legal, one wouldn't expect such vigorous enforcement of dealing with people who produce black market pot. It certainly wouldn't be a criminal offence. Pretty sure you can't mass produce cigarettes or alcohol legally here. If I knew a guy that sold black market scotch I'd buy from him and not the LCBO. And why do you figure there's no guys that make and sell good black market scotch? Once is becomes legal, they'll only be emboldened to undercut the government price. Competition! We see it with black market tobacco. There's a lot more money to be made by going legit than undecutting the government. In this country, the black market tobacco trade is almost entirely a result of the unique potion of First Nation reserves and territories on both sides of the border. It's a bad analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 A lot of people ignore DUI laws ,should we ignore that one to We're talking about the freedom to smoke something that doesn't impact anyone else but you. Why do you hate individual freedoms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Good Spirits take 5 years plus to produce. Otherwise you're drinking moonshine. As hard as it might be to make good pot it doesn't take years to age. Are people not already producing good pot already? Will that infrastructure suddenly disappear once the product becomes legal? People wouldn't be flocking to reserves if the taxation on tobacco wasn't absurd. We don't know what the taxation level on MJ will be. And the reserve can produce their own tobacco, who's to say they can't produce their own weed once its legal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Good Spirits take 5 years plus to produce. Otherwise you're drinking moonshine. As hard as it might be to make good pot it doesn't take years to age. No but it takes a high level of expertise and equipment and supplies, same as making Scotch. Are people not already producing good pot already? Will that infrastructure suddenly disappear once the product becomes legal? Again: why would they keep running black market schemes and risk being shut down when they can go legit? People wouldn't be flocking to reserves if the taxation on tobacco wasn't absurd. We don't know what the taxation level on MJ will be. And the reserve can produce their own tobacco, who's to say they can't produce their own weed once its legal? As big as black market tobacco is, it's still a fraction of the size of the legitimate side. There's no reason to think thesame wouldn't be the case with weed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 No but it takes a high level of expertise and equipment and supplies, same as making Scotch. But the time and space required precludes anyone from making it on their own. Again: why would they keep running black market schemes and risk being shut down when they can go legit? With the Colorado model, no one. I'm referring to this CAMH model where they're calling for 100% government control. Not sure how they'd deal with manufacturing of the weed but doesn't the Feds already make their own for medical use? As big as black market tobacco is, it's still a fraction of the size of the legitimate side. There's no reason to think thesame wouldn't be the case with weed. An Anecdotal study on this site suggests 40%. http://stopcontrabandtobacco.ca/the-facts/ Even if it's not that high, it's not a fraction. I get hooked up with cigars from a reserve for a fraction of the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 A lot of people ignore DUI laws ,should we ignore that one to If a lot of cops were ignoring DUI laws then yes you could expect people would probably follow suit. The difference with pot laws is that a lot of cops are ignoring them so why wouldn't you expect that to cultivate a liberating effect on people? What exactly is it that has you in a perpetually twisted snit about pot? I'm pretty sure I've seen you agreeing laws prohibiting it should be legislated away but it seems that until that time comes you are alarmed at the fact those laws aren't being prosecuted to the fullest extent possible. This seems really bizarre in the face of your oft-stated claim to be a libertarian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 But the time and space required precludes anyone from making it on their own. We've been through this before. Growing good weed also is failry intensive. You've already concede dthat point, let's move on. With the Colorado model, no one. I'm referring to this CAMH model where they're calling for 100% government control. Not sure how they'd deal with manufacturing of the weed but doesn't the Feds already make their own for medical use? There's no reason to think the CAMH proposal is the way they'd go. An Anecdotal study on this site suggests 40%. http://stopcontrabandtobacco.ca/the-facts/Even if it's not that high, it's not a fraction. I get hooked up with cigars from a reserve for a fraction of the price. [Pedantry] 40% is a fraction [/pedantry] Plus you're misrepresenting the data: Nearly one-third of the cigarettes found at Ontario high schools and over 40 percent of those found at Quebec high schools were contraband products. This has nothing to do with the total size of the black market tobacco industry, which is valued at around $2 billion (according to the feds). The government collects about $7 billion a year in taxes on tobacco products so you don't even have to take into account how much the tobacco companies make to see that relatively speaking, the tobacco black market is small potatoes. (The current marijuana black market, btw, is estimated at between $2 and $7 billion a year) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 There's no reason to think the CAMH proposal is the way they'd go. That's what caused this thread to be bumped. LOOK EVEN ADDICTION SPECIALISTS WANT POT LEGALIZED!!!!! I just wanted people to slow their roll. These people are more interested in a government controlling everything. We won't see the Colorado model if CAMH got its way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) That's what caused this thread to be bumped. LOOK EVEN ADDICTION SPECIALISTS WANT POT LEGALIZED!!!!! I just wanted people to slow their roll. These people are more interested in a government controlling everything. We won't see the Colorado model if CAMH got its way. I can disagree with their proposed approach and still point out your specific criticisms of it are off the mark. I think you're pretty unfair to them given their mandate. Edited October 23, 2014 by Black Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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