U.S. is spying on its citizens and others

[GostHacked]

No, not H bombs. Ever heard of Dresden? The allies leveled that city. Including civilians. But not, Pearl Harbor was the stunt. The H bomb was the response, and the ending to the stunt. Apparently after one H bomb, the Japanese still didn't have enough. So they needed a second to be convinced. Pretty dumb on their part.

It doesn't suprise me that you're on the Axis side though. It's why you're on the side of Putin, Assad, Saddam, Castro, Chavez, etc. Murderous dictators have always been in vogue to the far leftwing.

You are advocating using WMDs as a means to justify the end.

[dre]

You are advocating using WMDs as a means to justify the end.

Even worse. Hes advocating using them AFTER the end to make a political statement.

[bleeding heart]

You correctly put scandsls in quotations.

I put it in quotations precisely because so many dainty little moral cowards--conservatives and liberals alike--have tried to justify behavior that is one short step above child-rape on any ethical scale you could summon.

[Shady]

I put it in quotations precisely because so many dainty little moral cowards--conservatives and liberals alike--have tried to justify behavior that is one short step above child-rape on any ethical scale you could summon.

Complete and utter nonsense.

[sharkman]

You are advocating using WMDs as a means to justify the end.

Oh please, the American government did that, and they were right given the state of mind of the Japanese. The US would have had to carpet bomb all Japanese cities, hop from island to island slowly defeating the Japanese and racking up many more deaths all because the Japanese were too stupid to realize they were doomed. They bare some responsibility for their actions and for becoming Nazi like in their worship of the Emperor and the empire. It was a different time that most of us will never understand as we judge from afar.

And I suppose the US gets no credit for what Japan became after the war?

Edited September 20, 2013 by sharkman

[Shady]

Cool story bro! Problem is I didnt in any way whatsoever defend Hussein OR the Axis. You are either just being dishonest or you are such a simpleton that you believe your own shtick. I wont bother picking one or the other on your behalf.

You certainly have. You may want to start examining your values when you're on the side Saddam, the axis, Assad, Putin, etc. that goes for all of you. You might want to do some soul searching.

[GostHacked]

Oh please, the American government did that, and they were right given the state of mind of the Japanese.

Right, so how about Vietnam with Agent Orange. What about all the other times the USA has used WMDs?

Depleted uranium in Iraq anyone?

The US would have had to carpet bomb all Japanese cities, hop from island to island slowly defeating the Japanese and racking up many more deaths all because the Japanese were too stupid to realize they were doomed.

And you can bet the USA will go the same route if that was the only option on the table. All these conventions be damned.

Getting way off topic now.

[GostHacked]

You certainly have. You may want to start examining your values when you're on the side Saddam, the axis, Assad, Putin, etc. that goes for all of you. You might want to do some soul searching.

You can stop this type of response, it's not working anymore. No one here is on Saddam's or Assad's side. This had become such a childish response that it needs addressing.

Stop projecting on people.

[sharkman]

Right, so how about Vietnam with Agent Orange. What about all the other times the USA has used WMDs?

Depleted uranium in Iraq anyone?

Why is it, when we were talking about WWII, Japan and nukes, you suddenly change the subject? Were my points on Japan and nukes so obviously correct that you decided they needed no challenge? If I discuss 'Nam with you, will you then hop to some other conflict in response? Perhaps I should just ask you to clarify your issues?

Let me instead ask you this: If the free world had not opposed Japan and Germany during WWII but let them expand their empires at will, what would the world look like today? And if the US had not opposed the spread of communism in Korea, Viet Nam and to a lesser extent places like Russia, China, and Cuba, how many more countries would today be communist?

[bud]

Let me instead ask you this: If the free world had not opposed Japan and Germany during WWII but let them expand their empires at will, what would the world look like today? And if the US had not opposed the spread of communism in Korea, Viet Nam and to a lesser extent places like Russia, China, and Cuba, how many more countries would today be communist?

are you channeling mccarthy? your cries are empty.

u.s. lost in vietnam. vietnam remained 'communist' and now, over time, without military intervention, they have an open market and the standard of living continues to climb.

[sharkman]

are you channeling mccarthy? your cries are empty.

u.s. lost in vietnam. vietnam remained 'communist' and now, over time, without military intervention, they have an open market and the standard of living continues to climb.

Pipe down you!

The guy who says this:

totally jbg. it was saddam's fault that the u.s. lied about the evidence and went to war. i, as an idiot, couldn't agree more.

Wants to be taken seriously? Buddy, you haven't answered either question, or do you think the world is run by a secret Nazi Council?

[Bonam]

Its not just him that believed the bombings were not necessary....

ADMIRAL WILLIAM D. LEAHY chief of staff to Roosevelt and Truman...

GENERAL CARL "TOOEY" SPAATZ

The bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were politically motivated, and had a lot more to do with sending a message to the Russians and preventing a Russian landing than they had to do with defeating the Japenese, who at that point were subject to a complete and total naval blockade and an effective targeted conventional bombing campaign.

Actually I consider being called foolish by the MLW version of crusty the clown, to be quite a compliment.

The Japanese may have been prepared to negotiate, but they weren't prepared to offer unconditional surrender, which is essentially what the US wanted and pretty close to what it got (besides Japan getting to keep its emperor ceremonially). In fact, even after the use of the 2nd atomic bomb on August 9th, Japan still failed to go through with the surrender until further conventional bombing (the largest of the war) on August 13th/14th. Without the urgency imposed by the atomic bombs, Japan had no real reason to rush its surrender, and would have dragged the war out until after the main islands had been invaded, perhaps until Tokyo was overrun, just like Germany fought until Berlin was overrun.

The reality is that the Japenese had prepared an extensive defense of their main islands, and that without dropping the atomic bombs the US would have likely invaded the main islands conventionally by mid-late August. The Soviets also invaded Japanese possessions in Manchuria and were preparing for an invasion of the Japanese main islands in late August. Conventional invasion by the US and USSR of the main islands would have resulted in far more casualties, both on the Japanese side and likely on the allied side as well. Further, having half of Japan occupied by the USSR, in the same kind of arrangement as in Germany, would have resulted in likely millions of Japanese dying under communist oppression, in extermination camps, from starvation, etc, over the coming decades.

The US did what it had to do to end the war as quickly as possible, and was justified in doing so.

[bud]

Pipe down you!

The guy who says this:

Wants to be taken seriously? Buddy, you haven't answered either question, or do you think the world is run by a secret Nazi Council?

i suggest you pipe down. mccarthy is ridiculed for a reason. your cries of communism are empty.

do my two comments prove something to you? are you seeing something i'm not?

u.s. lost the war in vietnam. vietnam, over time, without intervention is going towards the right direction. the u.s. lied and cooked up evidence to go to war against iraq.

[bud]

only psychopaths can advocate the a-bombs being dropped on innocent people.

[sharkman]

Oh, so what should I do about my psychopath tendencies? And I gotta say this new revelation about myself has me really rattled! Help, bud, help!

[bud]

Oh, so what should I do about my psychopath tendencies? And I gotta say this new revelation about myself has me really rattled! Help, bud, help!

usually there is nothing that can be done for those who are psychopaths.

[sharkman]

usually there is nothing that can be done for those who are psychopaths.

Uh, hold on a sec. I didn't actually advocate the use of A bombs on innocent citizens. Wow, I guess I can untie the noose after all.

[Shady]

Why is it, when we were talking about WWII, Japan and nukes, you suddenly change the subject? Were my points on Japan and nukes so obviously correct that you decided they needed no challenge? If I discuss 'Nam with you, will you then hop to some other conflict in response? Perhaps I should just ask you to clarify your issues?

Let me instead ask you this: If the free world had not opposed Japan and Germany during WWII but let them expand their empires at will, what would the world look like today? And if the US had not opposed the spread of communism in Korea, Viet Nam and to a lesser extent places like Russia, China, and Cuba, how many more countries would today be communist?

It's always a shell game with these people.

[Michael Hardner]

Let's move on from the squabbling ?

[bud]

Uh, hold on a sec. I didn't actually advocate the use of A bombs on innocent citizens. Wow, I guess I can untie the noose after all.

everything isn't about you. i was responding to bonam (and shady before) trying to explain away why it was okay to drop the bombs on two cities.

[Shady]

The Japanese may have been prepared to negotiate, but they weren't prepared to offer unconditional surrender, which is essentially what the US wanted and pretty close to what it got (besides Japan getting to keep its emperor ceremonially). In fact, even after the use of the 2nd atomic bomb on August 9th, Japan still failed to go through with the surrender until further conventional bombing (the largest of the war) on August 13th/14th. Without the urgency imposed by the atomic bombs, Japan had no real reason to rush its surrender, and would have dragged the war out until after the main islands had been invaded, perhaps until Tokyo was overrun, just like Germany fought until Berlin was overrun.

The reality is that the Japenese had prepared an extensive defense of their main islands, and that without dropping the atomic bombs the US would have likely invaded the main islands conventionally by mid-late August. The Soviets also invaded Japanese possessions in Manchuria and were preparing for an invasion of the Japanese main islands in late August. Conventional invasion by the US and USSR of the main islands would have resulted in far more casualties, both on the Japanese side and likely on the allied side as well. Further, having half of Japan occupied by the USSR, in the same kind of arrangement as in Germany, would have resulted in likely millions of Japanese dying under communist oppression, in extermination camps, from starvation, etc, over the coming decades.

The US did what it had to do to end the war as quickly as possible, and was justified in doing so.

Well said. I've seen estimates of over a hundred thousand casualties on the US side alone if they attempted to actually invade the island of Japan. Apparently it's up to America to take an enormous amount of injured and dead, because the country that started a war with them by sneak attck while pretending to negotiate diplomatically isn't prepared to surrender yet. But it's always America's fault, never the enemies.

[sharkman]

everything isn't about you. i was responding to bonam (and shady before) trying to explain away why it was okay to drop the bombs on two cities.

When I post this:

Oh, so what should I do about my psychopath tendencies? And I gotta say this new revelation about myself has me really rattled! Help, bud, help!

And you respond, quoting the above and saying this:

usually there is nothing that can be done for those who are psychopaths.

and at no point mention Bonam or Shady, then it appears that you were indeed smearing me.

[Shady]

When I post this:

And you respond, quoting the above and saying this:

and at no point mention Bonam or Shady, then it appears that you were indeed smearing me.

The far leftwing often resorts to pyschopath when they can't use their usual retort of racist.

[bleeding heart]

But it's always America's fault, never the enemies.

Yes, the long-suffering victims of terrible abuse, truly too good for this fallen world.

[bud]

When I post this:

And you respond, quoting the above and saying this:

and at no point mention Bonam or Shady, then it appears that you were indeed smearing me.

i responded to bonam's post who went on and on about how the japanese had the abomb coming and how they deserved it. i have no problem telling you how i feel about you, your post or correcting mistakes; my response was to bonam and whoever else is trying to justify dropping atomic bombs on civilians.