U.S. is spying on its citizens and others

[Argus]

The same people "outraged" over NSA are the same people that have no worries at all about giving the government the power to confiscate more and more of your income for the "greater good"

Nonense. Though the same people outraged over NSA don't feel any qualms telling everyone what they're doing on a minute to minute basis on Twitter, or telling everyone all about their lives on Facebooks, or enabling GPS in their cell phones so they can find the best nearby restaurant (even though it allows others to know where they are 24/7.

[dre]

Nonense. Though the same people outraged over NSA don't feel any qualms telling everyone what they're doing on a minute to minute basis on Twitter, or telling everyone all about their lives on Facebooks, or enabling GPS in their cell phones so they can find the best nearby restaurant (even though it allows others to know where they are 24/7.

No the people outraged about it are simply people that support the concept of limited government, and the idea of the constitutional democracy/republic.

Protection from unlawful search and siezure isnt some of unimportant nicety. Its core principle of our political system,that people fought for a long time to get. But you dont have to take my word for it!

If you dont see the difference between people voluntarily telling people about their lives on facebook, and the wanton disregard for the legal rights of hundreds of millions of people by a government gone wild, then I dont think anybody is going to be able to explain it to you.

At the end of the day you can either support the concept of limited government, and the idea of the constitutional democracy/republic, or you can support illegal NSA wiretapping.

[Argus]

No the people outraged about it are simply people that support the concept of limited government,

But you are not such a person.

If you dont see the difference between people voluntarily telling people about their lives on facebook, and the wanton disregard for the legal rights of hundreds of millions of people by a government

So do you think it's a 'wanton disregard for the legal rights of hundreds of millions' because most everyone's phone number is in the phone book?

[dre]

But you are not such a person.

Thats exactly what I am.

So do you think it's a 'wanton disregard for the legal rights of hundreds of millions' because most everyone's phone number is in the phone book?

Thats another horrible analogy.

[cybercoma]

So do you think it's a 'wanton disregard for the legal rights of hundreds of millions' because most everyone's phone number is in the phone book?

Really?

[GostHacked]

But you are not such a person.

So do you think it's a 'wanton disregard for the legal rights of hundreds of millions' because most everyone's phone number is in the phone book?

One can choose to have their number unlisted. But it's not the phone number book that is the problem. Try looking up the PM and call. The issue is how they are going about getting the information off your smartphone or other devices. In some cases they do it without warrants. And a federal judge has ruled the NSA wiretapping unconstitutional, therefore illegal.

[Shady]

I agree with Rand Paul. James Clapper needs to resign or face charges for lying under oath. He's a lying liar.

[dre]

I agree with Rand Paul. James Clapper needs to resign or face charges for lying under oath. He's a lying liar.

Yup need to frogmarch everyone else involved in this program into court or congress and talk to THEM under oath as well.

[GostHacked]

Yup need to frogmarch everyone else involved in this program into court or congress and talk to THEM under oath as well.

And that may include some of Shady's faves. Like Bush and Cheney and Rice and Rumsfeld and ... and ....

[Argus]

One can choose to have their number unlisted. But it's not the phone number book that is the problem. Try looking up the PM and call. The issue is how they are going about getting the information off your smartphone or other devices. In some cases they do it without warrants. And a federal judge has ruled the NSA wiretapping unconstitutional, therefore illegal.

Very few individuals are targeted within the United States. That's a very small part of what the NSA does. And again, Google likely knows more about you than the NSA does.

[kimmy]

The claim that the "metadata" that the NSA collects is not personally identifying has been studied by academics, and found to be false.

A researcher at Stanford found that by using nothing more than the metadata and searches of publicly-available information from just 3 sources-- Facebook, Yelp, and Google Places-- he was able to get positive IDs for more than 25% of the users in his 5000-user metadata sample set. The conclusion is that if a guy could come up with that many correct matches from publicly accessible sources, it is highly likely that an agency with the resources the NSA has could go much further.

-k

[kimmy]

I agree with Rand Paul. James Clapper needs to resign or face charges for lying under oath. He's a lying liar.

It's odd that he has been allowed to commit a felony without any consequences, aside from writing a "oops sorry" letter to Diane Feinstein.

-k

[Shady]

It's odd that he has been allowed to commit a felony without any consequences, aside from writing a "oops sorry" letter to Diane Feinstein.

-k

I agree. I don't think the new year will be as kind to him though.

[bush_cheney2004]

... The conclusion is that if a guy could come up with that many correct matches from publicly accessible sources, it is highly likely that an agency with the resources the NSA has could go much further.

U.S. federal, state, and local governments have provided access to such data for a very long time. The internet has made such data warehousing and search/lookup sales quite profitable. All without the NSA...imagine that.

[Argus]

The claim that the "metadata" that the NSA collects is not personally identifying has been studied by academics, and found to be false.

A researcher at Stanford found that by using nothing more than the metadata and searches of publicly-available information from just 3 sources-- Facebook, Yelp, and Google Places-- he was able to get positive IDs for more than 25% of the users in his 5000-user metadata sample set. The conclusion is that if a guy could come up with that many correct matches from publicly accessible sources, it is highly likely that an agency with the resources the NSA has could go much further.

-k

They didn't say they couldn't. They said in itself it wasn't identifying. Just because the NSA could build a big file named Kimmy, with every detail of your life on it, doesn't mean they have the time or inclination to do so. Google, on the other hand...

[GostHacked]

Very few individuals are targeted within the United States. That's a very small part of what the NSA does. And again, Google likely knows more about you than the NSA does.

Google works very very close with the NSA. This is the point many are missing. Guess where the info is going?

[Shady]

Google doesn't have the authority to detain somebody indefinitely for suspicious activity. They collect data to sell you stuff in your interest groups.

[Shady]

NSA on the other hand.

[GostHacked]

Google doesn't have the authority to detain somebody indefinitely for suspicious activity. They collect data to sell you stuff in your interest groups.

What is the failure by some to not make the connection between the NSA and Google? You can view them as one in the same. Google's tech is really nothing compared to what the NSA has. Intelligence services and military will always have more advanced technology than what is available to private enterprise. That is the reason the US military loves entities like Boston Dynamics, now owned by Google. Not sure if this is a good idea. The largest AI on the planet in control of 8 robotics companies it purchased this year.

Anyways. They do sell your data. Not your metadata. your data. Think about that. The US military can simply buy it. Or use their advanced tech to simply hack in and steal the data. Part of the beauty with centralized cloud systems where a simple hack can get you 40 million credit card numbers from Target. That is about 5 million more than we have people in Canada.

[Michael Hardner]

Now that we know it happens, can anybody claim to be surprised from now on ?

Of should they take precautions like not using Google...

[bush_cheney2004]

Now that we know it happens, can anybody claim to be surprised from now on ?

Of should they take precautions like not using Google...

Good questions...I suspect that many will still wish to feign outrage while continuing to use web applications, social networks, and cell phones.

[jacee]

Judge says NSA ok, solved terrorist plots ...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hmcxbqS1M-dtFGsJSo_ZD2OWDYuA?docId=4a14a105-c9ad-40ca-9439-8e6165a723ee

New York A US judge ruled Friday that the National Security Agency's mass surveillance of telephone calls is lawful, igniting a legal conflict that the Supreme Court may ultimately have to resolve.

...

Ten days earlier, however, a federal judge in Washington declared that this "almost Orwellian" surveillance is probably unconstitutional, laying the groundwork for a protracted legal fight.

Others say no ...

NSA surveillance played little role in foiling terror plots, experts say

Edited December 27, 2013 by jacee

[bush_cheney2004]

Just for reference, the U.S. Supreme Court also found the WW2 internment of Japanese American citizens and resident aliens to be constitutional because of national security. The NSA will keep right on doing as it has been doing. Gotta have dots to "connect the dots".

[Wilber]

Judge says NSA ok, solved terrorist plots ...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hmcxbqS1M-dtFGsJSo_ZD2OWDYuA?docId=4a14a105-c9ad-40ca-9439-8e6165a723ee

New York A US judge ruled Friday that the National Security Agency's mass surveillance of telephone calls is lawful, igniting a legal conflict that the Supreme Court may ultimately have to resolve.

...

Ten days earlier, however, a federal judge in Washington declared that this "almost Orwellian" surveillance is probably unconstitutional, laying the groundwork for a protracted legal fight.

Others say no ...

NSA surveillance played little role in foiling terror plots, experts say

Who cares, the US constitution wouldn't prevent them from spying on non Americans no matter which way the courts ruled on this.

[Argus]

Google doesn't have the authority to detain somebody indefinitely for suspicious activity. They collect data to sell you stuff in your interest groups.

They collect data and share with other corporations. And how many people have access to that data? Unknown.

Why would the government detain you and for what suspicious activity?