U.S. is spying on its citizens and others

[Argus]

Now that we know it happens, can anybody claim to be surprised from now on ?

Of should they take precautions like not using Google...

Like not using Bell either? They announced they're going to be tracking what web sites you visit and what you do there. And that data will be sold to corporations. How many people here have recently examined their computer to see how many tracking cookies are there? I delete mine every week or so, and there are dozens and dozens of them each time.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Argus

[GostHacked]

They collect data and share with other corporations. And how many people have access to that data? Unknown.

Why would the government detain you and for what suspicious activity?

That is all detailed in the NDAA. National Defence and Authorization Act. Where indefinite detainment without charge is one or the more important points of the legislation. Without charge means you can be detained for any reason. ANY reason.

As extreme as it sounds, you could be detained indefinitely for something as stupid as littering. Even though you wont be given a reason why you are being detained.

Very dangerous and flies in the face of so called 'liberty and freedom' in the land that shouts that they are the most 'free' on the planet. Sure sure.

[GostHacked]

Like not using Bell either? They announced they're going to be tracking what web sites you visit and what you do there. And that data will be sold to corporations. How many people here have recently examined their computer to see how many tracking cookies are there? I delete mine every week or so, and there are dozens and dozens of them each time.

Clearing cookies and cache won't do shit. Your ISP logs and tracks it. Even the website you visit logs your IP. Best use a proxy and turn all cookies and apps like flash, off, when browsing the net.

But while the cookie is on your computer,(even for as little as a couple hours) the information can be gathered. You might want to start clearing things every time you log off the PC.

For the most part you have no clue how your stuff is tracked. Even me being an IT professional it astounds me.

Edited December 28, 2013 by GostHacked

[Michael Hardner]

Like not using Bell either? They announced they're going to be tracking what web sites you visit and what you do there. And that data will be sold to corporations.

I'm surprised I haven't heard of that one. Do you have a link ?

[GostHacked]

I'm surprised I haven't heard of that one. Do you have a link ?

Which part are you asking about? The fact Bell tracks or that they can sell your info?

[Michael Hardner]

The fact that Bell "tracks" doesn't surprise me so much, in that they probably keep logs of your web traffic. So that is tracking, by definition. I would be surprised if they kept it for ten years, five years, or two years but perhaps they do.

What surprises me is that they can sell the information about what sites you have visited and so on. I know that Google does this, and it's well known that this is the case but I haven't heard of ISPs just selling someone a list of transactions you've engaged in. Certainly they couldn't just do this across the board, ie. sell Proctor & Gamble my hotmail HTTTP messages. That would actually bother me.

[GostHacked]

http://www.itworldcanada.com/post/regulators-urged-to-probe-ethics-of-bells-data-grab

Provincial and federal regulators need to examine the ethics around the sort of wide-ranging data collection that Bell Canada intends to roll out next month, according to privacy and consumer advocates.

Under a new privacy policy, Bell’s information gathering activities in order to offer customers “relevant ads” will now include: Web pages visited from customer’s device or home Internet access; location; apps and device feature usage; TV viewing; and calling patterns.

Bell has given its customers up to November 16 to opt out of the program.

Bell may be acting within the law but its data collection campaign is not ethically sound, according to Philippe Viel, head of communications for Union des consommateurs (Consumers union) a Montreal-based consumer protection group.

“The only option to opt out offered is to not receive relevant ads,” he said in an interview with the national broadcast station CBC. “They’re going to collect the data anyway.”

http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6977/125/

The scope of Bell's intended personal data usage is remarkable. Given that many of its customers will have bundled Internet, wireless, and television services, the company will be tracking everything: which websites they visit, what search terms they enter, what television shows they watch, what applications they use, and what phone calls they make. All of that data will be correlated with their location, age, gender, and more.

Bell says it intends to use the data in several ways. First, it will begin to use targeted advertising to its customers by using its detailed consumer profile. The default for the company is that all consumers will be profiled and targeted. If consumers don't want these targeted ads, Bell will force them to opt-out. Second, Bell says it will aggregate its data to sell to other businesses and marketing companies so that they can use the Bell network usage for their own purposes.

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/06/12/gag-orders-could-prevent-canadian-telecoms-from-speaking-openly-about-potential-government-data-mining-programs/?__lsa=5748-36c3

Canada’s major national Internet and phone providers say they will not, and do not, give up their users’ communications data to the government without a fight. But even if they were to do it — or were already doing it — they might not be allowed to be truthful when asked about it, say lawyers specializing in surveillance law.

But they will sell it to another company. One possibly back run by the government. Would not be surprised if that was the case.

[Michael Hardner]

Ok. Well, first of all - do you know what 'aggregated' means ?

[GostHacked]

Ok. Well, first of all - do you know what 'aggregated' means ?

Indeed I do. Why?

[Michael Hardner]

It's a much different thing to say 'they're selling your data' and 'they're aggregating your data to sell'.

Clarity will assist you in persuading people - a free hint from MH.

[GostHacked]

It's a much different thing to say 'they're selling your data' and 'they're aggregating your data to sell'.

Clarity will assist you in persuading people - a free hint from MH.

Actually it's not different. Bell will simply contextualize the aggregated data before selling it to advertisers. Making their job easier to target you with customized ads. So no matter if they sell aggregated metadata, or bulk metadata you are failing to see that they are selling it either way. There is no difference.

[Michael Hardner]

That is a ridiculous viewpoint.

[kimmy]

If Google's tracking is so damned smart, why is Youtube now giving me French ads when I open videos? Get it together, Google.

-k

[DogOnPorch]

If Google's tracking is so damned smart, why is Youtube now giving me French ads when I open videos? Get it together, Google.

-k

Just do a few searches in French...that should fix things.

[GostHacked]

That is a ridiculous viewpoint.

You asked for proof, you got it. You asked for clarification, you go it. What is so ridiculous about it?

Whether they aggregate it or not before they sell it, is irrelevant to the fact they are selling it. The key point you wanted clarified was that Bell is selling your data. You can argue semantics about what type of data or how the data is parsed before hand, the KEY point is that they are selling that data.

You are paying for Bell to provide you with a service. They make more money off you, by selling your information to advertisers so you can be targeted directly with specific ads. That is really ridiculous.

I try a much as I can to cut down on my exposure to advertising. I cannot get away from it, but I can severely reduce my exposure to it.

But it's probably my emotions getting in the way again.

[Argus]

That is all detailed in the NDAA. National Defence and Authorization Act. Where indefinite detainment without charge is one or the more important points of the legislation. Without charge means you can be detained for any reason. ANY reason.

Leaving aside the fact they'd have to furnish evidence in order to extradite me, indefinite detainment without charge is unconstitutional in the US.

[Argus]

Clearing cookies and cache won't do shit. Your ISP logs and tracks it. Even the website you visit logs your IP. Best use a proxy and turn all cookies and apps like flash, off, when browsing the net.

But while the cookie is on your computer,(even for as little as a couple hours) the information can be gathered. You might want to start clearing things every time you log off the PC.

For the most part you have no clue how your stuff is tracked. Even me being an IT professional it astounds me.

I'm aware that clearing cookies does nothing with regard to my ISP tracking what I do. The point I wanted to make was that most people don't even have the first idea how many cookies are tracking their net behaviour or who they're talking to. If you told people the NSA had put a tracking cookie on their computer to find out where they went and what they did they'd freak, but that six dozen anonymous companies have done that doesn't even cause them to clean out their cache.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Argus

[Argus]

I'm surprised I haven't heard of that one. Do you have a link ?

Bell is going to know a hell of a lot more about their customers than the government...

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/10/22/bell-track-customers-ads_n_4138197.html

Edited December 28, 2013 by Argus

[Argus]

If Google's tracking is so damned smart, why is Youtube now giving me French ads when I open videos? Get it together, Google.

-k

I'm pretty sure Kimmy is a French name.

[Michael Hardner]

You asked for clarification, you go it. What is so ridiculous about it?

Me: It's a much different thing to say 'they're selling your data' and 'they're aggregating your data to sell'.

You: Actually, it's not different.

Those are different things. If they're not different to you, then it's just further proof that you and I speak two vastly forms of English: your general "everything is everything" English, and my version that is quite a measure more precise. You see, even when I'm convinced of your argument it's impossible for me to get clear facts from you. Thanks for pointing this out, but I will just go elsewhere for information on what is happening.

But it's probably my emotions getting in the way again.

Exactly. Because you're angry, or afraid, or however you'd like to describe it - it clouds your ability to be precise, and therefore to get a warning out. Kind of like being unable to scream in a nightmare; this appears to be your situation with regards to this topic.

Anyway, I do thank you for pointing this out. I think I will be dropping my Bell subscriptions now.

[Bob Macadoo]

Me: It's a much different thing to say 'they're selling your data' and 'they're aggregating your data to sell'

The only difference is economies of scale. It wouldn't be hard to flag your individual searches if they thought you after cross referenced your income could be convinced to purchase large sums.

[GostHacked]

Leaving aside the fact they'd have to furnish evidence in order to extradite me, indefinite detainment without charge is unconstitutional in the US.

But it is legal.

[GostHacked]

Me: It's a much different thing to say 'they're selling your data' and 'they're aggregating your data to sell'.

You: Actually, it's not different.

Those are different things. If they're not different to you, then it's just further proof that you and I speak two vastly forms of English: your general "everything is everything" English, and my version that is quite a measure more precise. You see, even when I'm convinced of your argument it's impossible for me to get clear facts from you. Thanks for pointing this out, but I will just go elsewhere for information on what is happening.

Why do you even bother coming to me in the first place?

It's like me pimping you out only on Mondays. Nice of me to give you 6 days off without talking to the point that I am whoring you out.

Exactly. Because you're angry, or afraid, or however you'd like to describe it - it clouds your ability to be precise, and therefore to get a warning out. Kind of like being unable to scream in a nightmare; this appears to be your situation with regards to this topic.

That part was in jest towards you Mike. You asked for proof about Bell selling your data, you are hung on the type of data instead of the fact that your data is being sold.

Anyway, I do thank you for pointing this out. I think I will be dropping my Bell subscriptions now.

Why? Was it something I said?

Edited December 29, 2013 by GostHacked

[Michael Hardner]

Why? Was it something I said?

I already thanked you, you don't have to rub my nose in it.

[GostHacked]

I already thanked you, you don't have to rub my nose in it.

I just did not want my emotions to get in the way of your logical thinking that is all.