Terry Jones not allowed in Canada

[Moonlight Graham]

That is an incorrect assessment. If he banned others from having access to a Koran, he would be against freedom of speech. Simply burning a book he possesses is not anti-speech.

Hmm this is also true. I'm so confused!

Is the one who burns a book a threat to security, or the one who commits the violent act in response?

I agree with this point, but I'm just summarizing what I think the border agents point-of-view was. Jones isn't causing the violence in any way, but he is in a sense inciting/arousing/provoking it. But I obviously side with Jones over any Muslim who causes violence over what he says or wishes to deny him free speech.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Moonlight Graham

[GostHacked]

He is not a citizen so therefore does not have the right to enter Canada.

WWWTT

That is it right there.

One of my friend who is an incredible guitar player was heading down to the US to play in a festivale with his band. They were denied entry based on the notion that it would take jobs away from Americans. No joke.

As a citizen of Canada I can be denied entry to the US for any reason they can come up with, even if no reason is given.

[DogOnPorch]

Good thing stopping this joker from speaking didn't rouse a mob of angry, non-denominational Christians. But, those involved knew it wouldn't...

[kimmy]

If he's being kept out for a legitimate reason, then so be it. But if he's being kept out because people don't want him to deliver his crappy message, I'm opposed.

I didn't approve of George Galloway being kept out, and I don't approve of this either.

-k

[cybercoma]

If he's being kept out for a legitimate reason, then so be it. But if he's being kept out because people don't want him to deliver his crappy message, I'm opposed.

I didn't approve of George Galloway being kept out, and I don't approve of this either.

-k

I'm not sure that the people on the ground that stopped him at the border have any idea who the guy is. Maybe I'm naive.

[Boges]

I'm certain they did. It was in the news.

[jacee]

http://m.torontosun.com/2012/10/11/quran-burning-pastor-terry-jones-denied-entry-to-canada

“I am very disappointed,” Jones said from Daytona, Ohio, en route to his Florida home. “This is a real blow to freedom of speech.”

Jones said he was stopped twice on his way into Canada, once by U.S. border guards and then by Canadian border officers. His car and personal belongings were searched and inspected by drug dogs, he said.

“We were brought into an integration room three times each,” he said of himself and his brother-in-law.

Jones said border officials turned him away because he was once fined in Germany for using his doctorate of theology to identify himself as “Dr.” Pastor Terry Jones. Border officials also cited a broken peace bond in Dearborn, Mich., in 2010 for denying him entry.

Jones said he successfully appealed both and believed they were stricken from his record.

“I think they are very weak excuses,” Jones said

I think so too.

I dislike the creep, but if they denied him entry to prevent a possible breach of the peace, they should say so instead of giving trumped up excuses.

I think a debate might have been interesting.

[Moonlight Graham]

By not allowing Jones entry, aren't the violently protesting Muslims "winning"? They're proving that through violence they can get what they want. It is in a sense a form of terrorism. They are bullying, essentially. On these grounds, among others, he should not be denied the opportunity to speak freely.

In the words of Voltaire: " I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

If sending young people to Afghanistan to "defend our freedom" is worth them dying for, is it not worth the risk of violence in Toronto and possible deaths to defend our western concept of free speech?

[dre]

Terry Jones has a history of trying to incite violence and hatred between various different sky-god nutters. If the government is going to screw someone over it might as well be a piece of shite like him.

[dre]

By not allowing Jones entry, aren't the violently protesting Muslims "winning"? They're proving that through violence they can get what they want. It is in a sense a form of terrorism. They are bullying, essentially. On these grounds, among others, he should not be denied the opportunity to speak freely.

In the words of Voltaire: " I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

If sending young people to Afghanistan to "defend our freedom" is worth them dying for, is it not worth the risk of violence in Toronto and possible deaths to defend our western concept of free speech?

If sending young people to Afghanistan to "defend our freedom" is worth them dying for

Its not. Its a collosal waste of both blood and treasure.

[Bonam]

I fully support Jones' right to express himself freely. However, I also support Canada's right to act within its own self-interest and with the safety of its citizens in mind. Canada is not obligated to allow anyone that wants to to enter. If the government has reason to believe that allowing someone into the country may put Canadians in danger, then it is right to take action to prevent said danger.

Allowing someone into Canada is unrelated to their free speech rights, the privilege of entry into Canada is not a right, and to deny entry is not an infringement on anyone's rights, unless they are a citizen of Canada.

[Boges]

Terry Jones has a history of trying to incite violence and hatred between various different sky-god nutters. If the government is going to screw someone over it might as well be a piece of shite like him.

Do you have evidence that he tries to incite violence? Just because his comments may inflame Muslims doesn't mean he's trying to incite them.

I'm surprised many Liberals on the site are so supportive of this as this could seriously be a criticism of the Governing Conservatives. Jason Kenney seems to like to not allow people in the country just cuz he can. ei George Galloway even though he had connections with known terrorist organizations.

By not allowing people like this in, it makes the story more newsworthy, not less. Had he come up yesterday I'm sure he'd have a debate with the Muslim they had to go up against him (I believe his name is Imam Rockwell) and nothing would have come from it.

Now Jones can preach that he's a victim and that the influence of fundamentalist Islam is actually hindering Freedom of Speech in the Western World.

[Michael Hardner]

I was against keeping Galloway out, but I have now changed my mind.

We don't have to let these people into Canada to instigate fights based on their takes on our politics or international politics. If they're here then sure they should have the right to express themselves, but let's discuss issues our own way, and not bring in other nations' approaches to things.

If we're going to have countries, we can at least use them to manage things our own way.

[Guest Peeves]

It's happened elsewhere, and he doesn't exactly have the best record with peaceful, constructive, discussion.

Stuff and nonsense. Unless he's here to break a law, to incite some violence against someone, keeping him out is indefensible.

Now some say that if he offends someone and THEY break the law rioting....(not against the law to offend someone) keep him out.

Stupid! If THEY break the law rioting, arrest them, not the guy that didn't.

Seems anyone can offend anyone but Muslims.

[Guest Peeves]

Do you have evidence that he tries to incite violence? Just because his comments may inflame Muslims doesn't mean he's trying to incite them.

I'm surprised many Liberals on the site are so supportive of this as this could seriously be a criticism of the Governing Conservatives. Jason Kenney seems to like to not allow people in the country just cuz he can. ei George Galloway even though he had connections with known terrorist organizations.

By not allowing people like this in, it makes the story more newsworthy, not less. Had he come up yesterday I'm sure he'd have a debate with the Muslim they had to go up against him (I believe his name is Imam Rockwell) and nothing would have come from it.

Now Jones can preach that he's a victim and that the influence of fundamentalist Islam is actually hindering Freedom of Speech in the Western World.

Right.

[Black Dog]

I was against keeping Galloway out, but I have now changed my mind.

We don't have to let these people into Canada to instigate fights based on their takes on our politics or international politics. If they're here then sure they should have the right to express themselves, but let's discuss issues our own way, and not bring in other nations' approaches to things.

If we're going to have countries, we can at least use them to manage things our own way.

I do think we need a good reason to deny people entry. If anything, keeping this nutjob out just helps him and his ilk get a wider platform for his views. If had been allowed in, he would have preached to the choir of 50 like-minded whackos and we'd be done with it. Free speech is a fundamental right. Free publicity is not.

[bleeding heart]

I do think we need a good reason to deny people entry. If anything, keeping this nutjob out just helps him and his ilk get a wider platform for his views. If had been allowed in, he would have preached to the choir of 50 like-minded whackos and we'd be done with it. Free speech is a fundamental right. Free publicity is not.

I agree.

[Guest American Woman]

And ironically Jones burned the Koran which proves he is against free speech.

Ummm. No. It doesn't prove that at all.

[Guest American Woman]

He's not being denied freedom of speech.

Of course he is. He's not being allowed into Canada to have his say.

[dre]

Of course he is. He's not being allowed into Canada to have his say.

I dunno. Book burnings are usually symbolic of repressing expression.

[Guest American Woman]

I was against keeping Galloway out, but I have now changed my mind.

We don't have to let these people into Canada to instigate fights based on their takes on our politics or international politics. If they're here then sure they should have the right to express themselves, but let's discuss issues our own way, and not bring in other nations' approaches to things.

If we're going to have countries, we can at least use them to manage things our own way.

Are you being sarcastic? I would swear this was Mr. Canada speaking.

Edited October 12, 2012 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

I dunno. Book burnings are usually symbolic of repressing expression.

I dunno. Book burnings signify not agreeing with what's said in the book. It's another form of expression, whether you agree with it or not.

[GostHacked]

I dunno. Book burnings signify not agreeing with what's said in the book. It's another form of expression, whether you agree with it or not.

Jones is not Canadian, and not guaranteed entry into Canada. Case closed.

[Guest American Woman]

Jones is not Canadian, and not guaranteed entry into Canada. Case closed.

Of course he's not guaranteed entry into Canada, which doesn't address why he wasn't allowed - which is actually the issue. So no, case not closed.

[Michael Hardner]

Are you being sarcastic? I would swear this was Mr. Canada speaking.

No... I don't really agree with the idea of countries in general. They're kind of outdated vehicles for mob control IMO.

But if we're going to have them, I can at least express my desire to use them to filter out noise from people who come here from other countries (wherever they may be). I have to put up with enough noise from my countrymen ... I just would like lower volume.

I don't mean to sound exclusionary. I certainly don't want to pick and choose who we let in by nationality, just by loud-mouthiness.

For the record, I'm always polite and grateful when I travel to the US.