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US Ambassador to Libya killed in attacks


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Who, exactly, is surprised?

But if you feel the need to continually focus on and criticize and blame the people who broke no laws over the violent killers, that's your right; and if such attention empowers the violent, just don't be surprised.

Gotta love freedom of speech, eh? B)

There is a rapist, he rapes a women every week for six weeks. The rape occurs every week between Monday morning and Sunday night. On the seventh week after he commits a rape, I go on a news show and state that he is the most despicable, disgusting lowest life form etc... , the next day he rapes 4 more women because I pissed him off. Now 3 weeks later he has not been caught yet so I decide I will advertise my newest book and I go on a news show once again and repeat what already states previously knowing that it will infuriate him and the result would be 4 more women raped due to my comments. Now add 3 more weeks and still he has not been apprehended and I, once again decide to insult him for my personal reasons knowing full well that he will rape 4 women to prove his point. Would I share any of the blame for the extra violence committed by this person? I understand that the proper reaction of a normal human being is not to lash out and be violent upon insult but in this case the reaction is more violence. So do I share in the blame knowing that the first time I insulted him 4 women were raped as a direct result of my comments, the second time I insulted him I did not add anything new to the conversation just repeat my initial point with the exact same consequences and the third time I knew the consequences yet I repeated essentially the same point as the previous two times and I did it specifically for personal gain?

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There is a rapist, he rapes a women every week for six weeks. The rape occurs every week between Monday morning and Sunday night. On the seventh week after he commits a rape, I go on a news show and state that he is the most despicable, disgusting lowest life form etc... , the next day he rapes 4 more women because I pissed him off. Now 3 weeks later he has not been caught yet so I decide I will advertise my newest book and I go on a news show once again and repeat what already states previously knowing that it will infuriate him and the result would be 4 more women raped due to my comments. Now add 3 more weeks and still he has not been apprehended and I, once again decide to insult him for my personal reasons knowing full well that he will rape 4 women to prove his point. Would I share any of the blame for the extra violence committed by this person? I understand that the proper reaction of a normal human being is not to lash out and be violent upon insult but in this case the reaction is more violence. So do I share in the blame knowing that the first time I insulted him 4 women were raped as a direct result of my comments, the second time I insulted him I did not add anything new to the conversation just repeat my initial point with the exact same consequences and the third time I knew the consequences yet I repeated essentially the same point as the previous two times and I did it specifically for personal gain?

Wow, what the hell is this?

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He is responsible for what is happening, just because he is not pulling the trigger doesn't mean he is innocent. The first time could be written off as stupidity, but the second and third time he knew very well that people will die because of him taunting Islam and he did it any way without considering who will die because of his comments/actions.

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Guest American Woman

He is responsible for what is happening, just because he is not pulling the trigger doesn't mean he is innocent. The first time could be written off as stupidity, but the second and third time he knew very well that people will die because of him taunting Islam and he did it any way without considering who will die because of his comments/actions.

What if the violent people capitalize on your 'blame the person who didn't break the law and focus on them rather than the guilty murderers' mindset, and jump on every instance where someone insults them, saying they are the reason they are violent? Nice excuse they have for their violence; and people won't even focus on them! How convenient for them. I guess we must all shut up, do their bidding; unless, of course, those we are insulting are not violent - then we should feel free to insult to our heart's content.

<_<

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He is responsible for what is happening, just because he is not pulling the trigger doesn't mean he is innocent. The first time could be written off as stupidity, but the second and third time he knew very well that people will die because of him taunting Islam and he did it any way without considering who will die because of his comments/actions.

Ahh so Muslims are like an uncontrollable racist. :rolleyes:

Do you really think the film maker knew that his stupid film would be used as an excuse to kill a diplomat?

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Guest American Woman

We can dispense with the filmmaker now it seems since it does not have much bearing on the events that have taken place.

Yep. After all the blame that's been thrown his way. Think that didn't work out well for the killers?

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He is responsible for what is happening, just because he is not pulling the trigger doesn't mean he is innocent.

Hmm....

He may not be innocent *** but he is most definitely not responsible for the actions of others.

*** - He still is innocent in a legal sense, he may be guilty in a moral sense if he truly believes his words cause some nutbar to go postal

ETA: There is no direct link nor contact between the filmaker nor anyone else involved in this.

Edited by guyser
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My humble opinion on all this...

I think the whole blame-shifting is a non-issue. The rioters are the criminals, it's ridiculous to argue otherwise.

The movie-maker is a racist and a coward but he's not a murderer. He put his 'controversial' movie out and ducked while others got hurt.

It's not like the Muslim reaction was unforeseable after what happened with the Muhammed cartoons.

The coward used a fake name, went into hiding and let others die for his beliefs.

That's what I don't like about him, but to call him guilty of what others do... no, I don't agree.

Edited by BC_chick
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This will be an interesting case study in how Canadian Muslims react.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/09/13/as-violent-protest-spread-in-middle-east-canadian-hindu-group-screening-anti-islam-film-to-make-a-point-about-tolerance/

Mr. Banerjee said he is working with contacts in the United States, including a Christian Coptic group, to secure a full-length, professional print of the movie, The Innocence of Muslims, that is apparently two hours long.

“We are going to end up getting a copy, that is the least of our worries. The bigger concern is to find a location and provide security.”

That is not a small concern. A short trailer of the film that first appeared on YouTube caused outrage in Egypt and Libya after it was translated into Arabic.

During angry demonstrations at the U.S. diplomatic mission in Libya, this week, U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other diplomatic officials were killed. Protests have since spread to other countries in the region.

Mr. Banerjee said the Toronto movie screening will be an inter-faith presentation and he is working with members of the Sikh, Jewish and Christian communities.

Maryam Dadabhoy, a spokeswoman for the Canadian Council on American-Islamic Relations, said the screening will bring needless hurt to Muslims and unnecessarily bring the controversy here.

Obviously dude's only goal is to stir the pot. He's trying to expose similar types of thin-skinned Muslims in this country.

I wonder if a Human Rights Commission will be contacted. :unsure:

Edited by Boges
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http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/14/witnesses-police-fire-on-protesters-near-u-s-embassy-in-yemen/?hpt=hp_t1

Tunis is now feeling the protests and the media is still portraying it as a result of the movie about the prophet.

Also some reports of some embassies attacked in Sudan.

Well what else would you attribute them to? Perhaps the killing of the diplomats was pre-planned but it's logical to think these widespread protests have something to do with the movie.

We've seen this all before with the Danish Cartoons or US Soldiers Peeing on corpses. Fundamentalist Muslims don't really need a good reason to riot.

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Well what else would you attribute them to? Perhaps the killing of the diplomats was pre-planned but it's logical to think these widespread protests have something to do with the movie.

We've seen this all before with the Danish Cartoons or US Soldiers Peeing on corpses. Fundamentalist Muslims don't really need a good reason to riot.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/mob-gathers-us-embassy-london_652335.html

Now things flaring up in the UK. Not huge but could just be the start there.

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I heard someone on TV say that the reaction to the film, the person thought the US Ambassador wasn't a target, but was in the wrong place at the wrong time when this went down. I also, think that before the end of the year Israel is going to move on Iran, which will include Syria, NATO, which will bring in Russia and the China and a big mess again.

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Looks like the Obama administration completely dropped the ball...

Egypt intelligence warns of attacks on Israel, US embassies

Egypt's General Intelligence Service warned that a jihadi group is planning to launch terrorist attacks against the US and Israeli embassies in Cairo, according to a report Tuesday by Egypt Independent, citing a secret letter obtained by Al-Masry Al-Youm.

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...

According to senior diplomatic sources, the US State Department had credible information 48 hours before mobs charged the consulate in Benghazi, and the embassy in Cairo, that American missions may be targeted, but no warnings were given for diplomats to go on high alert and "lockdown", under which movement is severely restricted.

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Nobody's denying that Jones is an aho deserving social shunning - and I certainly won't be contributing to his campaign. :lol:

But he isn't legally responsible for the violent overreaction of others.

But considering the award winning anti-Catholic video mentioned - a woman masturbating with a crucifix, which I believe is valid art and a valid statement against the church's protection of pedophiles and general obsession with sexual behaviour - I can't deny Jones' right to express his revulsion for Islam either.

As a member of a religion, you can perhaps be sanctioned for oppositional behaviour within that religion.

As a non-member, you are legally free to criticize.

Regardless of all else, extremist Muslims or fanatics of any kind cannot use violence to try to silence criticism.

Perhaps there is a case to be made against Jones for intentionally inciting hatred and violence against Americans ... treason perhaps?

Agreed but there are those who maintain what he does is OK, merely because he doesn't break the law. Unless you want laws that cover every facet of our behaviour, that is not a reasonable position.

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Agreed but there are those who maintain what he does is OK, merely because he doesn't break the law. Unless you want laws that cover every facet of our behaviour, that is not a reasonable position.

It isn't "right", but it is his right....

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Yah the sources for these news stories are as about as good as the sources for the Iraq wmd. I'll wait on this one for real evidence.

But that will only be years later when we can blame Romney if he gets in !! :D

Looks like US Marines have arrive in Yemen and Egypt.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/14/us-sends-marines-to-yemen-after-embassy-attack-protests-spread/

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Now in Tunisia ...

http://abcnews.go.com/International/us-braces-protests-egypt-yemen-rest-muslim-world/story?id=17233280

The U.S. embassy in Tunisia was enveloped in a cloud of black smoke today as police battle thousands of protesters who have gathered to demonstrate at the embassy, as protest by those angry over an American-produced film mocking the Prophet Mohammed raged for a fourth day across the Middle East.
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Looks like the Obama administration completely dropped the ball...

...

You know what? The Obama administration shouldn't have needed any intel that attacks could be coming on the anniversary of 9/11 period. Then word leaks out about a video that is sure to piss off militant Islamists? And the administration gets caught flat footed? What an idiot.

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You know what? The Obama administration shouldn't have needed any intel that attacks could be coming on the anniversary of 9/11 period.

Then word leaks out about a video that is sure to piss off militant Islamists? And the administration gets caught flat footed? What an idiot.

since when is the CIA become part of the obama administration? are you so naive to believe obama does his own security intel gathering? do you not think that if the CIA knew something an attack was coming they would have stood by and done nothing?

the way coordinated way the attack was carried out would suggest it had nothing to do with any video....

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