Michigan Cop visiting Calgary - what a world view!

[Moonlight Graham]

Why? Toronto is one of the safest cities on the planet.

It's not even among the safest cities in Canada, so that doesn't compute. For a major metropolitan city maybe you're right.

[Smallc]

It's not even among the safest cities in Canada, so that doesn't compute. For a major metropolitan city maybe you're right.

Well of course that's what I was talking about. I don't really consider Winkler Manitoba to be an actual city, no matter what it's actual designation may be.

Again though, why you would feel unsafe in Toronto is beyond me. I did a loop around the outside of the downtown one day in September...never once did anything even look at me.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Smallc

[Moonlight Graham]

Again though, why you would feel unsafe in Toronto is beyond me. I did a loop around the outside of the downtown one day in September...never once did anything even look at me.

It totally depends where you go. There's some really nice parts of the city, and I find downtown fairly clean for the most part. But there's also some really stretchy parts to the city. Low-income neighborhoods that take more than 5 mins to drive through and aren't exactly Disneyland.

Personal story: was walking out of the Eaton's Centre a few years ago while visiting and just outside the main doors was a homeless guy high to the ceiling and going absolutely bonkers trying to light his crack-pipe. I know those people exist in every major city but I just never saw it before. Also visited the city a few months ago and I had left the Eaton's Centre only about 30 minutes before the recent shooting inside the mall foodcourt. Maybe I should shop somewhere else LOL.

[Guest American Woman]

For the record:

There were ... rumours the two men in question worked for the Stampede and were giving out free passes to the park.

Not true, said Stampede spokesman Doug Fraser.

Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/Give+Walt+Wawra+break+comments+about+Nose+Hill+gentlemen+some+Calgarians/7067730/story.html#ixzz23NWmzsp6

[Canuckistani]

For the record:

There were ... rumours the two men in question worked for the Stampede and were giving out free passes to the park.

Not true, said Stampede spokesman Doug Fraser.

Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/Give+Walt+Wawra+break+comments+about+Nose+Hill+gentlemen+some+Calgarians/7067730/story.html#ixzz23NWmzsp6

Nope. my initial guess was they were a couple of drunks. Do you really need a gun every time some drunk gets a bit too pushy or loud? I mean, with his stern rebuke and all, they apparently looked bewildered and didn't bother him further. Thing is, if he has a gun, why wouldn't they have guns too? IF they're up to no good, it's two against one, so he'd still come out the loser. Better arm his wife and kid as well, and be sure to get off those first couple of shots. Somehow people in Canada manage to live thru these highly dangerous encounters and nobody gets hurt. But then, apparently Kalamazoo has the same number of murders with 1/10th the population. Wonder if the fact they're all armed in Kalamazoo has anything to do with that?

Edited August 12, 2012 by Canuckistani

[Guest American Woman]

Nope. my initial guess was they were a couple of drunks.

Let's go back and see what your initial "guess" was, eh?

Thank God for that. You really rather have this guy be able to blow away two people who were offering free tickets?

[Canuckistani]

Let's go back and see what your initial "guess" was, eh?

That wasn't a guess but going by what was reported at the time. But fine, whatever, how does it improve this cop's actions if they really were giving away free tickets - that's even more stupid.

[Guest American Woman]

I believe had he his gun he would have brandished it as a deterrent otherwise why would he say he wanted his with him? From his encounter it is clear he didnt need one .

Everyone walked away peacefully. But in his letter to the editor, Wawra laments that a man should have the right to protect himself when he needs to and says it felt strange not to be able to carry his handgun off duty.

link

He simply said it felt strange not to have it, that's all. He didn't pick a fight with the guys, he didn't get belligerent, he didn't say he wished he had had it so he could defend himself. There's nothing to suggest that he would have brandished it, much less shot them. Yet that is some of the responses that we are seeing - and the idea that he would have shot them is ludicrous. Americans aren't going around pulling out guns at every instance such as this - and the idea that we are is just as off base as his reaction. That is my point. If he overreacted, the responses have been overreactions.

However, I've read - in the Canadian press - that there is no evidence that the two men who approached him weren't aggressive. You think Canadians are never aggressive? Has the Calgary Stampede always gone on without incident? At any rate, as I already posted, a spokesperson for the Stampede said they don't give out free tickets.

Interesting comment:

“Everyone is dumping on this poor man,” said retired Calgarian Jim Miller.

“None of us were there. How can everybody assume these two guys were friendly? It’s turned into an anti-American rant. Let’s cut this guy some slack. He’s unwittingly poked a hornet’s nest.”

[Guest American Woman]

That wasn't a guess but going by what was reported at the time. But fine, whatever, how does it improve this cop's actions if they really were giving away free tickets - that's even more stupid.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make. At any rate, you were wrong about the free tickets.

[Canuckistani]

I have no idea what point you are trying to make. At any rate, you were wrong about the free tickets.

Yes I was. It's been known to happen. I'm just glad this guy is back where he belongs, feeling safe with this gun. Certainly not an incident that would make anybody want to visit Kalamazoo, even with the cool name and all. The last three letters of the name seem apt. Imagine getting lost in that town and trying to ask directions. I guess you yell out "Can you tell me where..." as you hit the dirt.

[Guest American Woman]

Yes I was. It's been known to happen. I'm just glad this guy is back where he belongs, feeling safe with this gun. Certainly not an incident that would make anybody want to visit Kalamazoo, even with the cool name and all. The last three letters of the name seem apt. Imagine getting lost in that town and trying to ask directions. I guess you yell out "Can you tell me where..." as you hit the dirt.

Do you always judge a whole city by one person? And speaking of overreactions, yours is every bit as extreme as his. Seems to me you don't have much room to judge and/or criticize others.

[Army Guy]

Yes I was. It's been known to happen. I'm just glad this guy is back where he belongs, feeling safe with this gun. Certainly not an incident that would make anybody want to visit Kalamazoo, even with the cool name and all. The last three letters of the name seem apt. Imagine getting lost in that town and trying to ask directions. I guess you yell out "Can you tell me where..." as you hit the dirt.

You and the others are making way to much of this. And i can say,its embrassing, i've been to most major Canadian cities and have felt very uncomfortable in some situations were the freindly local lovable Canadain population has been aggresive, confrontational, looking for a scrap,to cut the BS....lets take the US sailor who i think last year was stabbed outside a bar in Halifax...Take a look at the murder rates in all the cities , then tell me this shit does not happen. all this guy is guilty of is trying to protect his wife, and i can tell you having a pistol gives you more options to do just that...

He was out with his wife, enjoying what the city had to offer and these punks ruined that experience....someone approaches with an aggresive tone, it's time to put your game face on i don't care where your from...or what your trade is...He is a trained police officer does this for a living and would know when someone is being a dink or aggressive, and the fact his wife is with him adds to that as he snaps into protection mode...something most of us would do. or should do...you assume that his mentioning he normally has a wpn on him that he would automatically go into guns ablazing mode....RCMP have wpns,.. they break bar fights up all the time how many of those result in someone pulling out their guns and shooting first...you assume because he is American that he is not professional enough to use the right escalation of force...your the one making doing all the assuming ....and its making an ass out of you and me....

[Smallc]

The murder rate in Calgary is pretty low Army Guy, as with most major Canadian cities outside of the other 4 prairie cities...which in a world or even North American context, are still low.

I have been to and walked around almost every major Canadian city. There are very few instances where I felt uncomfortable. Often, you make the situation yourself. Often, I find that people lack diplomacy, and tact. By not responding to those guys in the park, he probably made the situation worse than it had to be.

[cybercoma]

The murder rate in Calgary is pretty low Army Guy, as with most major Canadian cities outside of the other 4 prairie cities...which in a world or even North American context, are still low.

I have been to and walked around almost every major Canadian city. There are very few instances where I felt uncomfortable. Often, you make the situation yourself. Often, I find that people lack diplomacy, and tact. By not responding to those guys in the park, he probably made the situation worse than it had to be.

The entire situation is made up. He made up the threat in his head because he's a coward. He certainly didn't need to respond to them. You come up to me on the street and start talking to me, I have no obligation to respond to you. I don't think that made the situation worse. I don't think there was a situation at all. I think he's a big crybaby that's used to having his safety blanket (gun) with him.

[Guest American Woman]

You and the others are making way to much of this. And i can say,its embrassing, i've been to most major Canadian cities and have felt very uncomfortable in some situations were the freindly local lovable Canadain population has been aggresive, confrontational, looking for a scrap,to cut the BS....lets take the US sailor who i think last year was stabbed outside a bar in Halifax...Take a look at the murder rates in all the cities , then tell me this shit does not happen.

Thank you for the voice of reason. The idea that all Canadians are lovable and harmless is so utterly ignorant that it's every bit as ludicrous as they are claiming this guy's reaction was. As the quote I provided factually states, we have no idea what kind of confrontation this was. We weren't there. I'm sure there is an aggressive Canadian or two out of the 32 million Canadians; your crime rate isn't zero, and I do believe the statistics for violent crime other than murder is higher in Canada than it is the U.S.

The responses seem to indicate that because the murder rate is lower in Calgary and/or Canada than it is in Kalamazoo and/or the U.S. that this guy was in no danger. What a crock. First of all, murder does occur in Calgary. Secondly, people are subjected to violent crimes other than murder. We're supposed to take comfort in the fact that Canadians can't carry? As he pointed out, criminals do - but one can be subjected to other violence besides being shot dead - and that does happen in Canada.

As I've said repeatedly, the reaction to his letter has been off the wall - everything from making fun of him when people have no idea what kind of people he was approached by - apparently the "free tickets" scenario that's been picked up by so many, including the media, was incorrect. I would say that there are a lot of unknowns that are being filled in at people's whim - and then the attitude being assigned to him is being assigned to all of Kalamazoo, Michigan, the U.S.

But he's the one, and of course the only one, who overreacted.

He was out with his wife, enjoying what the city had to offer and these punks ruined that experience....someone approaches with an aggresive tone, it's time to put your game face on i don't care where your from...or what your trade is...He is a trained police officer does this for a living and would know when someone is being a dink or aggressive, and the fact his wife is with him adds to that as he snaps into protection mode...something most of us would do. or should do...

Absolutely. He was polite but firm and moved on. He didn't get aggressive back. He didn't pick a fight. He simply chose not to respond and moved on. He doesn't owe them a response - and if they were aggressive, he would be a fool to think "I'm in Canada - nothing bad ever happens here." The idea that so many Canadians have the need to push such a fairy tale is quite telling.

America bad and violent. Canada goodness and light. Too many seem to have the need to believe this.

you assume that his mentioning he normally has a wpn on him that he would automatically go into guns ablazing mode....RCMP have wpns,.. they break bar fights up all the time how many of those result in someone pulling out their guns and shooting first...you assume because he is American that he is not professional enough to use the right escalation of force...

I've pointed this out a few times - that just because he has a gun doesn't mean he goes around shooting people dead at a whim. The idea that Americans are pulling out guns at the first indication of aggression is so ignorant as to be mind boggling.

your the one making doing all the assuming ....and its making an ass out of you and me....

As I've said, even if this guy did overreact, so are the masses - and as you are now pointing out, it's based all on assumptions. Thank you for pointing that out. I, as an American, have been accused of all sorts of idiotic nonsense for my responses, so perhaps your post will make more of an impression.

[GostHacked]

This guy should just stop crying. The laws here are different. Either put up with it, or simply stay home next time.

Must be a wonderful life to live in constant paranoia.

[Guest American Woman]

This speaks volumes, IMO; from the Calgary Herald (excerpts):

RE: Wawra -

No benefit of the doubt given the young men, no thought that they might have just been trying to be friendly.

Ironic since there seem to be no benefit of the doubt given to Wawra, no thought that the two men may have approached in an aggressive manner, as Wawra said.

And of course the comparisons to Canada and the U.S. are a given:

He also complained about Canadian gun laws, saying that in Canada, only the police and criminals carry handguns. Yes, that’s true, and it’s probably one of the reasons when there’s a dispute over a parking space in Canada, nobody dies from bullet wounds as a result.

Because, of course, thousands of Americans die from bullet wounds over a parking dispute. No ignorance in that remark.

This is rich:

Wawra did not return my call requesting an interview Tuesday afternoon. Too bad. I would have liked to ask him why an American visitor to Calgary would treat a friendly encounter in a city park here as if it were a midnight stroll through a drug-dealer infested alley on the south side of Chicago.

So it's now been determined that it was a "friendly encounter," in oh-so-safe Calgary; apparently no violence, aggression, or drugs there - and of course one has to go to the U.S. to find an example of a drug infested alley. The author couldn't have made a comparison to, for example, the drug infested alleys of Vancouver.

And here we have it:

One can only stand open-mouthed at the knee-jerk mindset of suspicion, fear and loathing on the mean streets — which is so ingrained in Americans that they can’t leave it at home when they visit another country

.

One American speaks for "Americans." One American is proof of what is "so ingrained in Americans...." One American out of 312 million Americans.

And this one incident, this one American, naturally speaks volumes about the cultural differences between Canadians and Americans. It gives the lie to those who say that Canadians are no different than Americans.

Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/Lakritz+Kalamazoo+police+officer+letter+editor+about+handguns+points+cultural+divide/7054368/story.html#ixzz23RO1qoos

[Canuckistani]

You and the others are making way to much of this. And i can say,its embrassing, i've been to most major Canadian cities and have felt very uncomfortable in some situations were the freindly local lovable Canadain population has been aggresive, confrontational, looking for a scrap,to cut the BS....lets take the US sailor who i think last year was stabbed outside a bar in Halifax...Take a look at the murder rates in all the cities , then tell me this shit does not happen. all this guy is guilty of is trying to protect his wife, and i can tell you having a pistol gives you more options to do just that...

He was out with his wife, enjoying what the city had to offer and these punks ruined that experience....someone approaches with an aggresive tone, it's time to put your game face on i don't care where your from...or what your trade is...He is a trained police officer does this for a living and would know when someone is being a dink or aggressive, and the fact his wife is with him adds to that as he snaps into protection mode...something most of us would do. or should do...you assume that his mentioning he normally has a wpn on him that he would automatically go into guns ablazing mode....RCMP have wpns,.. they break bar fights up all the time how many of those result in someone pulling out their guns and shooting first...you assume because he is American that he is not professional enough to use the right escalation of force...your the one making doing all the assuming ....and its making an ass out of you and me....

I assume that anybody that whines that they need a gun when approached by strangers is living in way more paranoia than is good for them. The RCMP you mention are trained to not use their guns unless the other person has a weapon and represents a clear threat. They know there will be an inquiry into their actions, and they'd better have just cause. When they go home, they don't walk around armed, yet somehow manage to to stay cowering in their homes.

If most people are carrying weapons while walking about, what are the crooks going to do? I know what I would do, draw and shoot first, before my victim can. It's just an escalation of violence, and, as we see from the statistics, that is exactly what happens down in paranoia land. Way more shootings.

[Guest American Woman]

The RCMP you mention are trained to not use their guns unless the other person has a weapon and represents a clear threat. They know there will be an inquiry into their actions, and they'd better have just cause.

You think police officers in the U.S. are trained otherwise?

When they go home, they don't walk around armed, yet somehow manage to to stay cowering in their homes.

Since you are basing your judgment on one American police officer, I'll up you one and provide two examples of RCMP officers who didn't do that when they got home (emphasis mine):

RCMP Constable Michael Roe, a 24-year veteran of the force, was arrested outside his home by members of the Langley RCMP detachment after neighbours called to report hearing gunshots on Wednesday, March 28, 2012.

...what is known is that multiple shots were fired inside Roe’s residence and that his wife and children were all inside the home with him at the time those shots were fired.

While the facts are not known, it sounds like a domestic dispute gone bad, and

the RCMP has more than its fair share of those cases.

RCMP Staff Sergeant Owen Wlodarczak pleaded guilty to assault and careless use of a firearm after he was arrested for punching his wife in the head half a dozen times and then holding his loaded service pistol to her head while his children watched in horror.

link

If most people are carrying weapons while walking about, what are the crooks going to do? I know what I would do, draw and shoot first, before my victim can.

You do realize that there's a heck of a difference between a "crook" charge and a murder charge, right? In other words, the possibility that someone might have a gun is a deterrent to some crooks who are only crooks, and not murderers.

[Canuckistani]

You think police officers in the U.S. are trained otherwise?

Apparently so, or made out of sterner stuff, since they don't go whinging about how unsafe they feel when they don't have their gun with them.

You do realize that there's a heck of a difference between a "crook" charge and a murder charge, right? In other words, the possibility that someone might have a gun is a deterrent to some crooks who are only crooks, and not murderers.

Sure. And you do realize the US has way more gun crime than we do, since you're all locked in an arms race with each other.

[The_Squid]

In other words, the possibility that someone might have a gun is a deterrent to some crooks who are only crooks, and not murderers.

Not true, as evidenced by the crime rate....

This visiting officer is a very paranoid, scared person who shouldn't have a gun EVER if this is his mindset in life. Scary indeed.

[Guest American Woman]

Not true, as evidenced by the crime rate....

Actually, it is true, as evidenced by the violent crime statistics excluding homicides.

This visiting officer is a very paranoid, scared person who shouldn't have a gun EVER if this is his mindset in life. Scary indeed.

Perhaps it's scary to a Canadian such as yourself. You best not ever leave the safety of Canada - which for some reason I'm led to believe you haven't thus far.

[The_Squid]

Actually, it is true, as evidenced by the violent crime statistics excluding homicides.

Nope. Those who claim that there is such evidence are likely cherry-picking statistics to suit their predetermined conclusions.

n a systematic review, Hahn et al. reviewed four studies that measured the national impact of shall issue laws on homicide, aggravated assault, robbery, rape, and killing of police officers. Hahn, et al. Firearms laws and the reduction of violence: a systemic review. Am J Prev Med. 2005;28(2S1):40-71. Two studies found a reduction in homicides associated with shall issue laws, but a third found mixed results across different counties and an overall increase in homicides. The fourth study, which focused on whether shall issue laws harmfully increase gun-related crime, found a statistically insignificant reduction in killings of police. In view of these findings and the limited number of relevant primary studies, the reviewers concluded that there is insufficient evidence to support the effectiveness of shall issues laws as public health interventions aimed at reducing violent crime.

http://publichealthlawresearch.org/public-health-topics/injury-prevention/gun-safety/evidence-brief/%E2%80%9Cshall-issue%E2%80%9D-concealed-weapons-law

Perhaps it's scary to a Canadian such as yourself. You best not ever leave the safety of Canada - which for some reason I'm led to believe you haven't thus far.

Yes, to me it is scary that someone this paranoid is allowed to carry a gun.

I have traveled outside of Canada on a regular basis. I know your little assertion was made to belittle, but simply ask, rather than making such a silly assumption.

Edited August 13, 2012 by The_Squid

[Wilber]

It makes sense that someone who is used to being armed at all times when going out in public would feel somewhat naked if they weren't. I feel the same way if I don't do up my seatbelt when I get in a car. On the other hand, this incident illustrates the fundamental difference in attitude our two countries have when it comes to firearms. If he felt he was accosted in a park, by all means write a letter but bemoaning the lack of his gun will get him very little sympathy in Canada. Officer Wawra has just found that out.

[The_Squid]

It makes sense that someone who is used to being armed at all times when going out in public would feel somewhat naked if they weren't. I feel the same way if I don't do up my seatbelt when I get in a car. On the other hand, this incident illustrates the fundamental difference in attitude our two countries have when it comes to firearms. If he felt he was accosted in a park, by all means write a letter but bemoaning the lack of his gun will get him very little sympathy in Canada. Officer Wawra has just found that out.

I feel the same way in grizzly country without a shotgun. However, I know that there are actually bears out there that will chew your face off if you happen upon one. So I can understand your premise.... however, the world is not actually as dangerous as this man's mind tells him that it is....

The mindset that everyone is an enemy and danger lurks around every corner is foreign to me. I think it is especially dangerous when these people walk around with guns.

Perhaps Kalamazoo is really dangerous. I don't know. Even if it is, not every place is as scary as Kalamazoo.