Michigan Cop visiting Calgary - what a world view!

[Guest American Woman]

I dont think anything is being blown out of proportion since he was in fact to be offered free entrance ticklets to the Stampede. Happens all the time there.

How was he supposed to know that? He doesn't say he was being offered free tickets.

It made the news in kalamazoo, some of the posters from there are embarassed.

Huffington Post

Deadline detroit

...all covered it.

Fine. So everyone over reacted as far as I'm concerned. Why would any posters be embarrassed over one American's reaction? Are you embarrassed every time a Canadian overreacts to something regarding the U.S.? The idea that if he had had a gun he would have blown them away - which is being suggested here - is just as stupid an overreaction, IMO.

This cop had an over reaction, but Canadians are having over reactions, too - is my point. Do you believe for a minute he would have blown them away if he had had a gun? And do you not think that reaction is just as ridiculous as his? And if so, are you embarrassed by it?

I'm no longer embarrassed when one American says or does something stupid as there are people all over the world saying and doing something stupid - and I have no more control over what one American does than I do over what they do.

As I said, I see it as an overreaction on his part, followed by another overreaction in the media, followed by overreactions in response. I just don't see this as "news."

[wyly]

How was he supposed to know that? He doesn't say he was being offered free tickets.

Fine. So everyone over reacted as far as I'm concerned. Why would any posters be embarrassed over one American's reaction? Are you embarrassed every time a Canadian overreacts to something regarding the U.S.? The idea that if he had had a gun he would have blown them away - which is being suggested here - is just as stupid an overreaction, IMO.

This cop had an over reaction, but Canadians are having over reactions, too - is my point. Do you believe for a minute he would have blown them away if he had had a gun? And do you not think that reaction is just as ridiculous as his? And if so, are you embarrassed by it?

I'm no longer embarrassed when one American says or does something stupid as there are people all over the world saying and doing something stupid - and I have no more control over what one American does than I do over what they do.

As I said, I see it as an overreaction on his part, followed by another overreaction in the media, followed by overreactions in response. I just don't see this as "news."

he made it a public issue so he got a very public reaction, it's all fair...

[WWWTT]

What's wrong with discussing this?

This is how American Woman approaches debate.

She usually sidesteps the meat of the topic and tries to change the focus in an attempt to put her debating opponent on the defensive.

Once you understand this approach and can recognize it,the long winded debates are dramatically shortened.

WWWTT

[Guest Derek L]

Are you calling Derek L a criminal or is he a cop?

I’ll assume Shady is inferring “concealed carry for self defence”, which no, I most certainly do not and is effectively illegal in Canada……….And no, not a cop (former Air Force), but I shoot with municipal, RCMP, BC Sheriffs, federal and provincial prison guards and BC Conservation officers on a semi-regular basis…………Up to a few years ago, 2-3 times a week when I still competed in ISPC and several police pistol combat competitions/disciplines.

[Guest American Woman]

he made it a public issue so he got a very public reaction, it's all fair...

I didn't say it wasn't fair. I said the "very public reaction" is as much an overreaction as his was.

This is how American Woman approaches debate.

She usually sidesteps the meat of the topic and tries to change the focus in an attempt to put her debating opponent on the defensive.

Once you understand this approach and can recognize it,the long winded debates are dramatically shortened.

What's to debate? What "meat" is there to this topic? One American overreacted and then the media and public overreacted in response. I don't get what the fuss is all about.

Sorry if you feel defensive, but perhaps there's a good reason for that.

Edited August 10, 2012 by American Woman

[WWWTT]

What's to debate? What "meat" is there to this topic? One American overreacted and then the media and public overreacted in response. I don't get what the fuss is all about.

Sorry if you feel defensive, but perhaps there's a good reason for that.

Actually I was giving someone else some advise.

You seem desperate to debate with me?

WWWTT

[cybercoma]

Fine. So everyone over reacted as far as I'm concerned.

Classic AW Team America defence. It's like grade school kids when they get caught doing something wrong and they whine and complain that others are doing it too, as if that excuses their behaviour. Edited August 10, 2012 by cybercoma

[wyly]

I didn't say it wasn't fair. I said the "very public reaction" is as much an overreaction as his was.

well you may have more level headed view of this and maybe drawing gun is a common occurrence where you live so no big deal but he made an issue of event in my neighbourhood, in my city that was a gross over statement and did so in a major newspaper that got nation wide coverage...every person who hears of it may reach an opinion that does not reflect what it is like to live here...so ya we have a right to defend our civic reputation, our approach to law and order and our decision to carry a gun or not carry a gun...

Edited August 10, 2012 by wyly

[Guest American Woman]

...maybe drawing gun is a common occurrence where you live so no big deal

This is as ridiculous as what he said. Good God. You are as ignorant as he is. Just the opposite side of the coin.

...but he made an issue of event in my neighbourhood, in my city that was a gross over statement and did so in a major newspaper that got nation wide coverage...every person who hears of it may reach an opinion that does not reflect what it is like to live hear...so ya we have a right to defend our civic reputation, our approach to law and order and our decision to carry a gun or not carry a gun...

Get over yourself. Seriously. Talk about a gross over reaction.

[wyly]

This is as ridiculous as what he said. Good God. You are as ignorant as he is. Just the opposite side of the coin.

oh lookie an ad hominem attack on the poster and not the post...

Get over yourself. Seriously. Talk about a gross over reaction.

actually you just confirmed his attitude, the arrogant simpleton american stereotype holds true...

Edited August 10, 2012 by wyly

[kimmy]

Well, what he said is true. In Canada, only the police and criminals carry guns.

Well certainly, but I think what we really need to know is HEY SHADY YOU BEEN TO THE STAMPEDE YET???

-k

[kimmy]

Are you calling Derek L a criminal or is he a cop?

I doubt he has a permit to carry his pistols anywhere except at the shooting range.

And I doubt he carries his rifles around when he goes to city parks. So Derek probably doesn't disprove the premise that only cops or criminals carry guns in Canada.

-k

[Moonlight Graham]

I feel quite safe in my city from gun violence, and in fact it usually never occurs to me that someone would be carrying a gun. A knife more likely if I'm downtown. But it feels a bit different if I'm in Toronto.

When I'm driving down the highway in rush hour here and some driver pisses me off I feel quite free & safe to flip the bird to the person and not have a gun pulled at me in a road rage situation, something like that just doesn't occur here very often. I've never heard that happening here to someone I know, and I personally don't know anyone who owns a gun other than hunting rifles & BB guns.

However, when I was visiting friends in California we were driving down the highway and I was being silly in the passenger window and making faces at the driver in the next lane. The other driver never saw me, but my American buddy immediately told me in a serious tone to stop doing it. It's just a different vibe down there in many places it seems. Maybe you usually have to assume the other stranger has a gun? I dunno.

[cybercoma]

Everyone should feel pretty safe in Canada. Very few people are killed by gun violence by someone that they don't know. This idea that Canadian cities are the Wild West with stray bullets flying everywhere is a myth. It happens, but the number of people killed by some random act of violence, even non-gun homicides, is exceedingly rare.

[AngusThermopyle]

However, when I was visiting friends in California we were driving down the highway and I was being silly in the passenger window and making faces at the driver in the next lane. The other driver never saw me, but my American buddy immediately told me in a serious tone to stop doing it. It's just a different vibe down there in many places it seems. Maybe you usually have to assume the other stranger has a gun? I dunno.

And you are what? Five years old?

You may not have a gun pulled on you in a road rage situation but did'nt you hear about the off duty cop who pulled a guy over on the 400 and broke his jaw? Good thing you did'nt flip that guy off is'nt it?

[msj]

And you are what? Five years old?

You may not have a gun pulled on you in a road rage situation but did'nt you hear about the off duty cop who pulled a guy over on the 400 and broke his jaw? Good thing you did'nt flip that guy off is'nt it?

Now this, THIS, is the kind of world view I'm talking about.

The you-deserve-to-get-shot-at-if-you-are-immature-and-make-funny-faces-at-other-drivers attitude fits in well with the story in the OP which appears to be the you-deserve-to-have-a-gun-pulled-on-you-if-you-talk-to-me-in-a-park-you-scary-stranger attitude.

I am wondering if Canada tends towards the "I'm more trustful of strangers and give them the benefit of the doubt" whereas other countries tend towards the above attitudes?

[Smallc]

But it feels a bit different if I'm in Toronto.

Why? Toronto is one of the safest cities on the planet.

[AngusThermopyle]

Now this, THIS, is the kind of world view I'm talking about.

The you-deserve-to-get-shot-at-if-you-are-immature-and-make-funny-faces-at-other-drivers attitude fits in well with the story in the OP which appears to be the you-deserve-to-have-a-gun-pulled-on-you-if-you-talk-to-me-in-a-park-you-scary-stranger attitude.

And what I'm talking about is an adult who thinks making faces at people is normal behaviour.

As for the rest, the point is that just because people in Canada do not carry guns is no guarantee of ones safety. Having ones jaw broken is a pretty serious injury. If a person goes around deliberately provoking others then they really should'nt be surprised when they draw a negative and even forcefull reaction from them.

Personally I saw one incident in a parking lot where a guy took after another with a tire iron, that will kill you just as dead as a pistol.

[Wilber]

Everyone here is aware that Canadian cops don't carry guns when not on duty, are they not? It's not allowed yet somehow they seem to survive walks in the park.

[GostHacked]

I think this kind of attitude is becoming increasingly more common amongst officers on both sides of the border. The utter paranoia, confrontational attitude, and unreasonableness is doing damage to their credibility on both sides of the border.

With all the brutalities we see from police online (all sorts of vids on youtube and other site) the public is somewhat aware of these brutalities that violate your rights. The cops that brutalize people are the ones who ruin it for the rest of the police (and some are upstanding people) ... so even the good ones are nervous because of the public backlash they have been getting.

Check out the happenings in Anaheim over the past couple weeks or so.

South of the 49th the cops are told about terrorism and to suspect everyone. Napolitano is not helping by saying .. 'if you see something say something' .. turning everyone against each other essentially, creating a nice divide between the public and the officers that are supposed to uphold the law and maintain the peace.

This Michigan cop has been conditioned to suspect everyone because of the environment he works in.

The majority of people are not out to get you. The majority of people are good people until they portray otherwise.

[guyser]

How was he supposed to know that? He doesn't say he was being offered free tickets.

I suppose he wasnt to know that, but based on his words he didnt even let them try. I suspect he made it so clear that he was put off by being spoken to , rudely according to him (and which I doubt)that the other two were left wondering just wtf happened.

Fine. So everyone over reacted as far as I'm concerned. Why would any posters be embarrassed over one American's reaction? Are you embarrassed every time a Canadian overreacts to something regarding the U.S.? The idea that if he had had a gun he would have blown them away - which is being suggested here - is just as stupid an overreaction, IMO.

It appears the over reaction is on his part. He felt threatened even though he walked on and they said not a nother word. I can only assume had they wished harm they would have done so.

I do get embarassed when canucks do stupid things in other countries (what can I say, thats me),and believe me, as you well know, there are tons of canucks doing and saying stupid things all the time.

I believe had he his gun he would have brandished it as a deterrent otherwise why would he say he wanted his with him? From his encounter it is clear he didnt need one .

This cop had an over reaction, but Canadians are having over reactions, too - is my point.

I think the mocking he is getting is based on humour, aftetall others have said they were offered free tickets at that park and is a common occurence. Now of course he would likely not have known that.

I'm no longer embarrassed when one American says or does something stupid as there are people all over the world saying and doing something stupid - and I have no more control over what one American does than I do over what they do.

As I said, I see it as an overreaction on his part, followed by another overreaction in the media, followed by overreactions in response. I just don't see this as "news."

There sure are, on both sides.

I feel his optics are being made fun of, and had he not put those out in print, then none of this would occur, but he chose to and is getting his reward.

It certainly does not reflect on Americans, perhaps Kalamazoo cops, but his job ingrains a certain mindset I figure.

[msj]

I find it interesting how we have these different world views.

The paranoia of the Michigan cop (which very well could be reasonable where he comes from) vs the assumed "good intentions until they show otherwise" attitude of the Calgarian expressed above.

I wonder to what extent such psychology plays in the gun control vs gun ownership debate?

When I started this thread I was having some amusement, however, my questions were sincere and, imo, legitimate (even if certain people want to spend their time questioning the amount of reaction this deserves ).

So, I have found some data at this website which looks interesting.

Using the "Online Data Analysis" on the left hand side to look at their data I think we can find some interesting differences between the Canada and the US.

There is quite a bit on that site to look at so perhaps we can get into it in more detail through a discussion as we all look at different data sets.

For now, I have looked at the graph showing Canada vs the US under the National Identity Tab and then the section on Trust.

For the question "Trust: People you meet for the first time" I notice that Canada scores 51% for trust completely/trust a little while the US scores 40.5%.

Canada scores 13% on the not trust at all while the US scores 14%.

So, there is some difference here.

The difference on the positive side (51 vs 40.5) is 10.5 % points or 25% difference.

The difference on the extreme negative side, however, is only 1 % point or about 8% difference.

So, it seems that the comment quoted in the OP "To me, it says that we [Canadians] assume people have good intentions until they show us otherwise" is reflected in the data.

No, the difference is not huge but it is there.

Anyway, will go data mining later....

[Topaz]

Perhaps the way to settle this is to have ALL US tourists especially the US police to wear a US flag pin so Canadians who come up and talk to them know exactly who they are talking to. The two guys probably thought they Canadians and Albertans at that.

[wyly]

I read that the cop is intending to respond to the fuss he's created an elaborate on his experience...

I still don't think he was in any danger he misread their intention, my life experiences with nasty punks if they intend you harm they follow up and aren't deterred by harsh language...

[Guest Derek L]

I doubt he has a permit to carry his pistols anywhere except at the shooting range.

And I doubt he carries his rifles around when he goes to city parks. So Derek probably doesn't disprove the premise that only cops or criminals carry guns in Canada.

-k

Exactly, but if when the Zombies Apocalypse starts, all bets are off: