Michigan Cop visiting Calgary - what a world view!

[GostHacked]

Describe many for me, 10%, 50%, 75% of all officers, just so we are on the same page many to me means the majority, really is that what you meant.

How do you determine a number for something that is never brought to the public attention in terms of how much abuse actually takes place from the police. If the videos I posted does not get you at least a little pissed at the actions of the police, then are you really paying attention?

I get it there are Some bad cops , just like there are bad professionals in any trade, or in our our neibourhoods. would you say that these cops that have killed someone , have they been charged, and had their day in court.

Only because the evidence was so damning. Without the video of the beating and the hospital records, those cops would have gotten away with literal murder. And in many cases they have gotten away with it, because there was a lack of evidence or the evidence was made to go away.

And when cops DO call out each other about the crimes, the whistleblower is treated like a lowlife and marginalized any way possible. It's a boys club.

GH i now alot of good soldiers who have been on the job to long and suffer from some form of depression or PTSD, and yes this infliction makes them assholes, but do we throw them away,i mean after all they got this way from serving us....and while treatment is getting better sometimes it's not available to everyone, or nobody forces them to get help...I'm not saying they should not be accountable for there acts it should be a consideration thats all.

We are talking about police here, not the military. There is a difference of someone in the military getting PTSD due to combat , and a cop beating the shit out of a civilian for no good reason. It's the cops job to detain, not detain and lay the beat down to them.

And the link I posted was about Kelley Thomas who was a homeless war vet BEATEN TO DEATH by police officers in Fullerton California.

Nobody does, but there are some including you that have painted the entire force with the same foul smelling brush, how about we target those that need targeting is all i'm saying.

The good ones who don't call out this kind of stuff is just as guilty as the ones committing these crimes. Accountability is a thing of the past and civilians are being severely hurt and KILLED because of idiot cops who have chips on their shoulders knowing that accountability does not exist.

Because i'm sure for every bad cop out there there is three cops that are good with good deeds behind them.

Oh there are good cops out there. I am not denying that. But if the good cops say nothing about the bad ones, then the bad ones can continue to abuse. It's the culture that has existed in many police departments for decades.

[WWWTT]

It's called research, educate yourself on the topic before you open your lips, your the one that has painted the entire group with one brush, see what you have here is an opinion, and like assholes everyone has one....and they don't count for much...

Research?

Listen buddy,I've been dealing with cops and involved in the justice system for well over 30 years!

And most of it has been good and helped me a tremendous amount!

Who are you to talk down to me telling me I need to do research?

I am not one to blindly follow orders and never question the ones giving orders!

WWWTT

[wyly]

Oh there are good cops out there. I am not denying that. But if the good cops say nothing about the bad ones, then the bad ones can continue to abuse. It's the culture that has existed in many police departments for decades.

it's that code of silence/intimidation at work...I've had cop friends so I've heard the inside stories, the unreported beatings, driving under the influence charges that were never laid...I have no idea how you reform a police culture where they put themselves above the law when they're in charge of applying those laws...

[Guest American Woman]

it's that code of silence/intimidation at work...I've had cop friends so I've heard the inside stories, the unreported beatings, driving under the influence charges that were never laid...I have no idea how you reform a police culture where they put themselves above the law when they're in charge of applying those laws...

I'm sure the few cop friends that you know speak for/represent cops everywhere.

[The_Squid]

I'm sure the few cop friends that you know speak for/represent cops everywhere.

They likely have a good insight into the culture of the force. No one said anything about "representing cops everywhere".

[Guest American Woman]

They likely have a good insight into the culture of the force. No one said anything about "representing cops everywhere".

So what does "the culture of the force" refer to then, if not representing cops everywhere? The culture in your city/town? Because that's all they can speak for.

[jacee]

Nobody does, but there are some including you that have painted the entire force with the same foul smelling brush, how about we target those that need targeting is all i'm saying.

Because i'm sure for every bad cop out there there is three cops that are good with good deeds behind them.

WWWTT has been clear he's talking about SOME bad cops. One bad one in every detachment in the country wouldn't be a big percentage but it would still be MANY bad cops.

I wouldn't put the percentage as high as you do though, Army Guy.

1 in 4? 25%? Cripes I hope not!

I saw 9 cops start to interfere in something unnecessarily and 8 of them soon walked away ... and one idiot stayed and tried to instigate trouble.

I'd guess more like 1 in 10 ... but they tend to run in packs if not separated.

And they are being exposed now because 9 out of 10 people have a video camera in their hand ... AND ... police cannot steal your camera and rip out the film like they used to AND if they steal your phone to erase the pics, chances are someone else is filming them doing that. AND good cops want the bad ones cleaned out as they just make it more difficult and dangerous for the rest.

It is a new era and we're seeing a lot of bad cops exposed ... and that's a good thing.

Because we pay their salaries; They work for us!

[jacee]

How do you determine a number for something that is never brought to the public attention in terms of how much abuse actually takes place from the police. If the videos I posted does not get you at least a little pissed at the actions of the police, then are you really paying attention?

Only because the evidence was so damning. Without the video of the beating and the hospital records, those cops would have gotten away with literal murder. And in many cases they have gotten away with it, because there was a lack of evidence or the evidence was made to go away.

And when cops DO call out each other about the crimes, the whistleblower is treated like a lowlife and marginalized any way possible. It's a boys club.

We are talking about police here, not the military. There is a difference of someone in the military getting PTSD due to combat , and a cop beating the shit out of a civilian for no good reason. It's the cops job to detain, not detain and lay the beat down to them.

And the link I posted was about Kelley Thomas who was a homeless war vet BEATEN TO DEATH by police officers in Fullerton California.

The good ones who don't call out this kind of stuff is just as guilty as the ones committing these crimes. Accountability is a thing of the past and civilians are being severely hurt and KILLED because of idiot cops who have chips on their shoulders knowing that accountability does not exist.

Oh there are good cops out there. I am not denying that. But if the good cops say nothing about the bad ones, then the bad ones can continue to abuse. It's the culture that has existed in many police departments for decades.

Even good cops won't rat out bad cops, but I think they're less willing to lie in court to protect them now. It's recently been clarified that they have a legal right to remain silent. So ... if a cop exercises his right to remain silent ... you can bet his buddy is guilty as hell.

[Guest American Woman]

It's recently been clarified that they have a legal right to remain silent.

Really? Do you have a source for that?

[GostHacked]

I'm sure the few cop friends that you know speak for/represent cops everywhere.

Well since my 'friend' is still employed as a police officer, the culture does in fact exist. The extensive of it, is another question. But since you know at least a few incidents where cops have gotten away with things, what are the things you have not heard about. How do you call out the ones who have the guns and don't seem to be afraid to abuse it knowing they have some kind of impunity towards prosecution. We are always told 'The officers acted within the guidelines of the department.' While a person now lays on the floor of the interrogation room, when the cop turns back on the video. There is no way you can defend this kind of filth. Anyone who is to uphold the law, I would hope is just a better person than I am, and better than the common criminal.

[Canuckistani]

So what does "the culture of the force" refer to then, if not representing cops everywhere? The culture in your city/town? Because that's all they can speak for.

Because his town is unique in having that sort of culture - never happens anywhere else?

Every town has some bad cops. Depending on the culture at the top, there are more or less of them, and it gets covered up a bit more or less. But of course cops pull together everywhere. With what we've seen with the RCMP, it's widespread in Canada. Doubt all the ocifer Wawas out there are any different in the US, certainly doesn't sound like it from news reports.

Most cops are good people, but they go along to get along, and that's not good.

[Guest American Woman]

Because his town is unique in having that sort of culture - never happens anywhere else?

Every town has some bad cops. Depending on the culture at the top, there are more or less of them, and it gets covered up a bit more or less. But of course cops pull together everywhere. With what we've seen with the RCMP, it's widespread in Canada. Doubt all the ocifer Wawas out there are any different in the US, certainly doesn't sound like it from news reports.

What "news reports?" All you've got is his letter to the press. You don't even have anything from the men who approached him to counter what he said. Yet you are drawing all kinds of conclusions and posting them here as if it were fact.

I could draw lots of conclusions about you from what you've posted on this forum - which is a lot more to go on than one letter to the press - but I wouldn't be allowed to do that, even though I wouldn't be even be doing it under your real name, as you can, and do, make all the claims about officer Wawas that you please. And you criticize him??

Most cops are good people, but they go along to get along, and that's not good.

You have no idea what "most cops" do.

Edited August 17, 2012 by American Woman

[Canuckistani]

You have no idea what "most cops" do.

But you do?

[Guest American Woman]

But you do?

Did I say I did?? I'm not the one making claims about them, much less accusing a specific individual of wrongdoing.

[Canuckistani]

Did I say I did?? I'm not the one making claims about them, much less accusing a specific individual of wrongdoing.

Well in Canada you just need to read the newspapers about the discussion that the RCMP is a force in trouble with lots of rotten apples and very poor systems of getting rid of them. That's a large part of the police force in Canada. In Vancouver we had the same problem, including cops not willing to report the bad apples until we got rid of the chief and put in a guy who cleaned things up - to a degree. I would be very surprised if it's different in the US, with the reports we read out of there.

[Guest American Woman]

Well in Canada you just need to read the newspapers about the discussion that the RCMP is a force in trouble with lots of rotten apples and very poor systems of getting rid of them. That's a large part of the police force in Canada. In Vancouver we had the same problem, including cops not willing to report the bad apples until we got rid of the chief and put in a guy who cleaned things up - to a degree. I would be very surprised if it's different in the US, with the reports we read out of there.

Ok. So please give me some sources to read - to back up what you say, for both Canada and the U.S.; something to back up your claim that "there are lots of rotten apples....." out there. I don't want proof that there are a few, but "lots." If it's as bad as you say it is, it would have to be easy to come up with several sources.

- And please tell me what you consider "lots." What percentage of all police officers? I would like to know so we can both apply the same standards to all people, organizations, nationalities, races, religions, et al - in our present and future discussions.

[Canuckistani]

Ok. So please give me some sources to read - to back up what you say, for both Canada and the U.S.; something to back up your claim that "there are lots of rotten apples....." out there. I don't want proof that there are a few, but "lots." If it's as bad as you say it is, it would have to be easy to come up with several sources.

- And please tell me what you consider "lots." What percentage of all police officers? I would like to know so we can both apply the same standards to all people, organizations, nationalities, races, religions, et al - in our present and future discussions.

Just read the Canadian media. I'm not going to look up every case that's been reported in the last while, the class action suit that's been launched by former RCMP members, the admission by the new commissioner that things are bad in the force and need to change, the perjury charges and obstruction of justice charges against cops, etc. And when I've done all that, you'll tell me that's not lots or something because it doesn't rise to whatever level you want to set. The consensus here it that its a significant number, ie lots as in way too many. It's not the majority, as i said previously, but the majority doesn't seem to be doing a good job of policing itself.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Canuckistani

[Guest American Woman]

Just read the Canadian media. I'm not going to look up every case that's been reported in the last while, the class action suit that's been launched by former RCMP members, the admission by the new commissioner that things are bad in the force and need to change, the perjury charges and obstruction of justice charges against cops, etc. And when I've done all that, you'll tell me that's not lots or something because it doesn't rise to whatever level you want to set. The consensus here it that its a significant number, ie lots as in way too many. It's not the majority, as i said previously, but the majority doesn't seem to be doing a good job of policing itself.

So you've got nothing. Nothing but your claims and accusations.

Furthermore, I didn't say I wanted to set the level - I asked YOU to set the level - which we would then apply to all people, groups, organizations, nationalities, religions, etc.

So I'll ask again - what percentage makes up a "significant number?" How many is "way too many?" That's quite vague to say the least, and surely you aren't prepared to apply that same vague standard to all people, groups, organizations, nationalities, religions, etc, are you?

And do you think it's the job of the "majority" of police officers to "police" all of the other officers? How would you even expect them to know what all of the other officers are doing?

[Canuckistani]

So you've got nothing. Nothing but your claims and accusations.

Furthermore, I didn't say I wanted to set the level - I asked YOU to set the level - which we would then apply to all people, groups, organizations, nationalities, religions, etc.

So I'll ask again - what percentage makes up a "significant number?" How many is "way too many?" That's quite vague to say the least, and surely you aren't prepared to apply that same vague standard to all people, groups, organizations, nationalities, religions, etc, are you?

And do you think it's the job of the "majority" of police officers to "police" all of the other officers? How would you even expect them to know what all of the other officers are doing?

It is the job of the majority of police officers to police the police - who else will?

If you're really that interested in finding out the problems in the RCMP, I suggest you get to work and google it, or just read back issues of the Vancouver Sun. That's a lot of work to find all that info, I'm not interested in doing it for you. People here agree that there's a problem, including, as I said, the newly appointed commissioner. I don't need to convince you.

[bleeding heart]

So you've got nothing. Nothing but your claims and accusations.

Furthermore, I didn't say I wanted to set the level - I asked YOU to set the level - which we would then apply to all people, groups, organizations, nationalities, religions, etc.

It's an unreasonable and preposterous demand.

Every assertion you make about anything, beyond the strictly and 100% personal, must from now on have addended a chart with stats backing up your claims.

Please include ALL "people, nationalities, organizations, religions," and so on.

I mean, you wouldn't wish to hold others to a higher standard than you hold yourself.

[Canuckistani]

More cops with nothing to hide, just came up:

An Edmonton man wants police to return an iPhone that he says was seized by an officer while he was videotaping an arrest.

Corey Maygard, 25, captured the video last Friday because he thought police were using excessive force to detain a man near the Salvation Army in downtown Edmonton.

"They had the one guy somewhat hog-tied behind his back," Maygard said. "And they were dragging him."

Maygard says one of the officers approached and told him to stop recording. He refused.

"He at that point turned me around, read me my rights," Maygard said. "Took my phone. Turned the video off and arrested me for obstruction of justice."

Maygard was taken to downtown police headquarters where he spent the night in cells. The charge was withdrawn in court on Monday.

"There is nothing that prevents an individual from videoing an event that's taking place in public," his lawyer Danny Lynn said.

The court ordered police to return all of Maygard's belongings, including his iPhone. However, the phone hasn't yet been found.

Police say the information isn't yet in their property and exhibit system. This can take time as there is a large amount of property that needs to be processed each day.

They say they are doing their best to track it down as soon as possible.

We've had a lot of that in Vancouver as well. But also videotaping that the cops didn't see. Resulted in the initial pr stuff the RCMP put out as being shown to be pure bs. (Dziekanski case) and perjury charges ongoing for the 4 officers involved with one of the 4 also being found guilty of obstruction of justice in an unrelated drunk driving case. He resigned, was the only way to get him off the force. Or the case of a cop in the DTES pushing a woman with MS to the ground because she "lurched" towards him and he "thought she was going for his gun." He just kept walking.

[Guest American Woman]

It is the job of the majority of police officers to police the police - who else will?

It's not the job of the police officers to police other officers. I asked before and I'll ask again - how would you even expect them to know what all of the other officers are doing? It's not their job to follow up on all of the other officers, to investigate their behavior. There wouldn't be time enough in the day for them to do their job.

If you're really that interested in finding out the problems in the RCMP, I suggest you get to work and google it, or just read back issues of the Vancouver Sun. That's a lot of work to find all that info, I'm not interested in doing it for you.

Then don't make the claims. According to the rules of the forum: If you are stating a fact, be prepared to back it up with some official sources (websites, links etc). It's your job to back up your claims, not mine.

People here agree that there's a problem, including, as I said, the newly appointed commissioner. I don't need to convince you.

People here agree on a lot of things. Does that make everything fact? Because there are people agreeing on opposing views. You don't need to convince me of anything - you have to back up your claims.

I notice you still didn't answer the questions I asked - So I'll ask again - what percentage makes up a "significant number?" How many is "way too many?" That's quite vague to say the least, and surely you aren't prepared to apply that same vague standard to all people, groups, organizations, nationalities, religions, etc, are you?

Again. People have no right to apply their biased opinion of cops to the one cop in question and accuse him of being guilty of wrongdoing. That you are apparently ok with it says a lot about you.

[Wilber]

Geez, all the guy said was he was uncomfortable not being armed which is normal where he comes from and all of a sudden he is a paranoid psycopath. I don't agree with him but I can't believe the moronic reaction of many Canadians.

[TheNewTeddy]

Geez, all the guy said was he was uncomfortable not being armed which is normal where he comes from and all of a sudden he is a paranoid psycopath.

I don't see what's wrong with that. You can always arm yourself with a knife if you are that paranoid. If you are paranoid walking around in what polls show is one of the most friendliest nations in the world without your weaponry attached, then yes, you are a paranoid psychopath.

[Wilber]

I don't see what's wrong with that. You can always arm yourself with a knife if you are that paranoid. If you are paranoid walking around in what polls show is one of the most friendliest nations in the world without your weaponry attached, then yes, you are a paranoid psychopath.

Guess he doesn't read your polls. Guess he didn't realize Canadians would act like such a bunch of pompous A holes just because he was honest about feeling uncomfortable..

Edited August 18, 2012 by Wilber