The crisis in Egypt

[bloodyminded]

There has been scant attention payed to stories like the overthrow of the democratically elected Zelaya Government in Honduras a year or so ago.

Yes. Wrong narrative. Move along.

[GWiz]

Compared to what....Martin or Chretien style politics?

Israel should have at least as much influence on Harper as protesters in the streets of Egypt, for whatever his influence is worth.

Why?

[bloodyminded]

A little-reported fact is that labour movements have been central; there have been thousands of labour strikes in the past few years (often quashed violently by authorities); and tens of thousands (at least) of the current protesters are affilated with the labour movement.

And they're organized.

This is potentially a good sign as well.

Edited February 10, 2011 by bloodyminded

[Oleg Bach]

Ahhh yes, the BENEVOLENT Dictator, I totally agree, it's easily the BEST form of Government, except for this one FLAW...

In HUMANS; POWER corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely... That's the simple fact that has been the "Big Problem" throughout human history... The more one has, power and money and in most cases money is power, the more one wants... Those few in History that didn't "fit" this mold were quickly eliminated by those that did... SIMPLE HUMAN GREED is what it's all about, period...

Well THAT, and of course HUMANITY'S main trait - "Man's inhumanity (a misnomer if there was one) to (their fellow) man...

Sure glad I'm not human...

Yah I really have a problem taking on the role of human also...really don't like the idea much but it seems we are stuck in these bodies for the duration of the adventure.

[GWiz]

Yah I really have a problem taking on the role of human also...really don't like the idea much but it seems we are stuck in these bodies for the duration of the adventure.

Tis so I'm afraid... Even an Alien must play the hand one is dealt...

[Shady]

For a lot of reasons that would be pretty obvious to people who, you know, read.

Yes, lots of reasons. So many that you couldn't state even one. No, the answer is because it doesn't fit your narrative.

[GWiz]

he's stepping down today, says the CIA.

This will make about the 3rd-4th time the CIA has called it wrong... Not including missing the whole situation and conditions in Egypt off the bat...

[GostHacked]

This will make about the 3rd-4th time the CIA has called it wrong... Not including missing the whole situation and conditions in Egypt off the bat...

Mubarak is very desperate to appease the masses (ahahahahah riiiiiiight) ..... handing over to the New Boss .. same as the OLD Boss..... ....

And I still want to know wtf is up with that google excec.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iAIGXZry1dta-HzXokaxleuwsfrA?docId=CNG.b52a4404d74c4dd16459e5190c7894de.691

"It's a slippery slope," Skuba told AFP. "Whenever an employee of a company becomes publicly associated with a political situation there's often more peril for the company than there is advantage."

[GWiz]

Mubarak is very desperate to appease the masses (ahahahahah riiiiiiight) ..... handing over to the New Boss .. same as the OLD Boss..... ....

And I still want to know wtf is up with that google excec.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iAIGXZry1dta-HzXokaxleuwsfrA?docId=CNG.b52a4404d74c4dd16459e5190c7894de.691

Hmmmm, Interesting alright...

[GostHacked]

Well, Mubarak has stepped down, live all over the networks n stuff.

Step one done .... now step two.

Congrats to the people of Egypt for not giving in.

[Moonlight Graham]

Well, Mubarak has stepped down, live all over the networks n stuff.

Step one done .... now step two.

Congrats to the people of Egypt for not giving in.

This was inevitable. Now it gets interesting.

[myata]

Today, a history was made. It's awsome to live through these moments. I admire people of Egypt, young and old, who have overcome fear and stoop up for their freedom. A moment to cherish for generations to come.

Tyrants will fear. Their sponsors, rejig their bets.

[pinko]

Well, Mubarak has stepped down, live all over the networks n stuff.

Step one done .... now step two.

Congrats to the people of Egypt for not giving in.

The next step should be to freeze the assets he gained through corruption.

[Rue]

I have no quarrel with your post but in the interest of clarity one must remember that there are (currently) 52 separate countries in Africa somewhat demographically divided into north/south - east/west quadrants... Comparisons between these quadrants, at a minimum, is very difficult to make or understand via the singular term "Africa"...

yes. Very valid point. Point taken.

[Sir Bandelot]

Since Mubarrak was the US henchmen this whole thing is just a condemnation of US foreign policy in the region.

[Sir Bandelot]

Well, Mubarak has stepped down, live all over the networks n stuff.

Step one done .... now step two.

Congrats to the people of Egypt for not giving in.

Yes presumably they've got their next henchman ready, now.

[Rue]

First off Bjre I am debating you and I debate hard but I mean nothing personally insulting so if it comes across

that way its not meant to be. I respect your right to have different opinions but I want to debate them and blast away at some of them. That is all. Thank you for debating me.

You said:

"The poor people there (Africa) are victims of western robbers."

You later on conceded my point that not all poor people are that way as a result of just corupt Western business interests. They are just as much robbed by their own people. The fact is dishonesty starts in our own backyards and

we are all equally culpable for it. This notion that certain robbers only rob because they themselves are victims I

do not buy. I believe there are people coming out of Africa who do not use corupt Westerners as an excuse to rip their own people off. I think it is an insult to them to try suggest someone like Mugabe only became corupt because Westerners caused him to. That to me is a crock. Mugabe is a self-created man responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands. He is a classic example of the sociopaths of many nations who are not victims-they are simply rotten people.

You stated:

"When some politicians there rape and plunder their own people, western countries did not help them in improve their economy, they turned to make them more poor so that more such things happen, and they can blame more, actually, western politicians are so evil that they hope those ugly things happen so that they can have things to blame others."

Again I criticize your simplistic black and white statements. Too much generalization for me. There are in fact very good Westerners who have tried very hard over the years to help people of modest means in Africa only to have their efforts ransacked not by Westereners but corupt Africans in the military or guerilla or terrorist units or corupt bureaucracies. This simplistic dividing of the world into black and white is patronizing not just to African peoples but all people. Don't suggest I am an evil Westerner aiding the exploitation of Africans simply because I live in a global economy I have no control over that necessarily is dependent on unethical as well as ethical practices.

I can control so much in my life and I try like many others to do the right thing. I will be damned if someone generalzies me as evil. I am ugly and I smell and I am rude and get on peoples' nerves and I have done some bad things but no I do not need you to label me an evil white man from the West thank you.

You stated:

"African people should have their own bank system totally independent from US banks, the way to become wealthy is to get rid of western countries and do it themselves."

Are you that naive? You think the coruption in Nigeria, South Africa, Ghana, Kenya, for example indicates a continent ready for an ethical banking system? You think the business decisions of Robert Mugabe indicate someone who is capable of understanding banking?

What a ridiculous thing to say. Banks are colour blind and should be colour blind. They should be run by apolitical people without political and racial biases or any other kinds of biases. You confuse hiring people you want to look and think in a way you find acceptable with competence.

I don't care what colour skin, gender, age, or gender preference the banker is. What I want to know is are they competent to invest and see into the future and what will prove to be solid, promising projects of high return.

You scapegoat the US for world banks? Again try do some homework on the world banking system and Switzerland's role in it and the corupt third and fourth world leaders' role in it as well as multi-nationals, the military-industrial and oil complexes. There are numerous players and simply scapegoating the U.S. is absurd. Its like suggesting the banks are controlled by jews or Chinese. Its run by people of all colours and countries. Money is colour blind. Whether money comes from someone in India, China, the U.S., South America, it has only one colour, green.

You stated:

"I did not read what Ghaddafi did. But Mugabi did very well before evil western countries try to destroy the country he lives."

Your selectivity as to the corupt totalitarian dictators of Africa does not surprise me. Ghaddafi sent his army into Chad and massacered helpless civilians, thousands of them. As for Mugabe he is a sick mass murderer and terrorist and I would like you to be specific on the accusations you make trying to switch focus from his evil and murderous reign to the alleged countries you referred to.

He destroyed an economic structure that kept his people fed and clothed and in homes for what? He has forced over 60% of his country to flee to South Africa and the rest starve and live under constant terror attack and tribal slaughter. You want to blame the West for him? Really. What next. Oh wait you will tell me I am responsible for Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Ghaddafi, Jean Bidel Bokassa, Idi Amin Jr.?

You stated:

"I don't know all rich people, but there are greedy rich people who are powerful and evil."

Yes and you don't know all poor people either and therte are greedy pooor people who are powerful and evil. Its all relative. That is the point. Not all poor people are good and not all rich people are evil.

I am neither poor or rich and I am a mix of evil and good. Such stereotypes don't always work do they. That is my point. We need to get a bit more complex in our analysis of conflicts rather than melt it down to such simplistic categories of good and evil.

You stated:

"China did it good because it helps people with no condition."

With due respect that is nonsense. China did what it did using the tactic known as predatory pricing. It uses its state monopoly on trade restriction and currency to make it possible to flood other countries' markets with its cheap goods while placing heaving restrictions on goods coming back the same way.

China did good? Do you call setting up a slave state good? For who? It has set up a large slave labour economy of captive people with no freedom of expression. Good? So go work in a factory in China if you think they did it good.

Good? You think they give help with no condition? Oh really now. How about you explain what charitable donations China has given to other third world countries. That I would love to see. Go find out the price it pays for oil from Mozambique, Angola and Sudan as well as Iran. It has paid off corupt politicians precisely so it can get its oil and cheap prices that do nothing to benefit the people of those nations.

China did good? Tell that to the people of Tibet. Tell that to India who it has gone to war with twice and threatens to again because it fears India's ability to keep up with it and surpass it.

You want to portray China as having done good? Tell that to the millions in jail because they are political dissidents for having the audacity to point out their lives are trapped in a cycle of oppressive poverty.

You stated:

" If there are human being there, China helps them to improve their life."

Say now, don't tell me. China has paid your way to Canada to study. Lol. This hero worshipping of China

speaks for itself. Are you a Maoist or a modern day state monopolist?

"Evil western politicians try to block trading to countries who don't buy their "democracy", their agenda is to control the law-makers of the target country, even if the human beings there are in urgent need of help."

You think its that simple? And China of course places no conditions on its trade. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Iran, Venezuela, they place no conditions on their trade. Just evil western politicians. Lol.

Got it.

"They would rather let the target country be destroyed in name of "human rights" than help the human beings there, even when the "human rights" situation in their own western countries are so poor, they just enjoy let the poor people in target country die and use that to blame the target government."

Do you refer to China propping and protecting the corupt regime in Sudan and its genocide of poor Africans? Do you refer to China's propping of Iran's regime which crushed on the streets people marching in seach of democratic freedoms? No no not you. Its only evil Westerners that get in bed with corupt third and fourth world leaders.

Lol.

China good. West very bad. China nice. West poo poo people.

Yep heard that before. Only most times its used to describe Israel and the U.S. as poo people and anyone who hates either country as good people.

Been there done that.

See for me while you see black and white, I just see brown. The colour of poo you know is always brown.

[myata]

I'll concur with one essential comment: one doesn't routinely hear China lecturing others on their affairs... while the great Champions of Democracy are at that on every corner.. only to pet another friendly dictator behind the back as the cermon goes on.

No one sort of poop is no better than the other.. only that the freemocracy adage adds peculiar easily distinguishable smell to the same old thing.

Edited February 11, 2011 by myata

[bloodyminded]

I'll concur with one essential comment: one doesn't routinely hear China lecturing others on their affairs... while the great Champions of Democracy are at that on every corner.. only to pet another friendly dictator behind the back as the cermon goes on.

It's less than clear that most of the world takes the West's lecturing about democracy very seriously, anyway. Trivial irritants, liked objective reality, tend to get in the way of such mythmaking.

[bush_cheney2004]

I'll concur with one essential comment: one doesn't routinely hear China lecturing others on their affairs...

Oh no? China "lectures" mightily about Dalai Lama visits to other nations. I wonder why?

[Topaz]

You know what ALL goverments are corrupt to a certain point and some are REALLY corrupt and still some are good at hiding their corruptions. I think since the end of the Korea War the west, being mostly USA, has done a lot of negative things around the round and I suppose it the timing of the CIA in the USA. As far as Egypt, by stepping down and leaving it to the military, didn't the military come out this past few days and say they supported the president?

[lukin]

The Muslim Brotherhood will control Egypt, much to the delight of Iran. Saudi Arabia...you're next.

[Jack Weber]

You know what ALL goverments are corrupt to a certain point and some are REALLY corrupt and still some are good at hiding their corruptions. I think since the end of the Korea War the west, being mostly USA, has done a lot of negative things around the round and I suppose it the timing of the CIA in the USA. As far as Egypt, by stepping down and leaving it to the military, didn't the military come out this past few days and say they supported the president?

True,the US has done alot of bad things since WW2...So did the Soviets.The difference was that with the Soviets,there were no pretences about "freedom and democracy",just Soviet style Marxist colonization...

The problem with the US's empire building,was that it was done under the guise of "freedom and democracy",when it was really about propping up Fascist autocrats who wouls do the State Department's anti-Communist bidding.This,in almost all cases,meant almost no freedom and virtually no democracy.Only the enriching of the home of the empire...

Actually,in this regard,The US 20th Century Empire is'nt that different from any other empire in history...And,sadly,its sun is setting in classic historical fashion...

[bush_cheney2004]

You know what ALL goverments are corrupt to a certain point and some are REALLY corrupt and still some are good at hiding their corruptions. I think since the end of the Korea War the west, being mostly USA, has done a lot of negative things around the round and I suppose it the timing of the CIA in the USA.

Then why is your country so closely aligned with the USA? Why do 85% of your exports still go there? Why did your nation bomb and kill so many people with "them"? Why do you worry so much about what will be on American television tonight?

As far as Egypt, by stepping down and leaving it to the military, didn't the military come out this past few days and say they supported the president?

No, the military supports Egypt...I am glad that America helped to make it very strong in Egypt's time of "awakening"?

[jbg]

A little-reported fact is that labour movements have been central; there have been thousands of labour strikes in the past few years (often quashed violently by authorities); and tens of thousands (at least) of the current protesters are affilated with the labour movement.

And what do these "laborers" (spelling fixed) produce?