Missile launch near L.A.

[DogOnPorch]

Well this is odd...

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/11/09/mystery-missile-los-angeles-california.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeXNC8k9FKU

Better footage of the launch.

http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=13468118

[DogOnPorch]

A similar event occured over Newfoundland last year which seemed likely to be a jet's contrails catching the setting Sun. Perhaps this could be that, as conditions are quite similar. The only thing that seems to take away from this as a possibilty is what appears to be rocket engine(s) burning bright at the tip of the trail. But light can play some very strange tricks...especially through the thick twilight atmosphere.

Edited November 10, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[GostHacked]

Ya saw this today and it instantly made me think of the Newfoundland case.

It has to be military. No other explanation. The military won't tell you everything. Might here of some 'slip up' about this a few months down the road. Also notice that there is no immediate finger pointing at all.

And rockets do not leave contrails. Only aircraft do. And that is no contrail.

[bush_cheney2004]

....And rockets do not leave contrails. Only aircraft do. And that is no contrail.

If you say so....

Edited November 10, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[GostHacked]

If you say so....

Airplanes leave contrails. The fuel for most rockets are chemical based and leave a nasty trail in the sky. It won't dissipate as quickly as a contrail (because those only last a minute or so at best), so by that you can rule out contrail. Contrails do not last hours. The Shuttle leaves a good dose of crap , solid fuel rocket boosters n such, so yeah rockets are expected to leave a mess.

[DogOnPorch]

Many types of rocket fuel combinations leave thick smoke trails. Plus while going through certain layers of upper atmosphere, rockets do often leave natural condensation trails.

Edited November 10, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[M.Dancer]

Airplanes leave contrails. The fuel for most rockets are chemical based and leave a nasty trail in the sky. It won't dissipate as quickly as a contrail (because those only last a minute or so at best), so by that you can rule out contrail. Contrails do not last hours. The Shuttle leaves a good dose of crap , solid fuel rocket boosters n such, so yeah rockets are expected to leave a mess.

Contrails is short for condendation trail....nothing to do with the fuel exactly, but the heat.

Contrails (short for "condensation trails") or vapour trails are artificial clouds that are the visible trails of condensed water vapour made by the exhaust of aircraft engines. As the hot exhaust gases cool in the surrounding air they may precipitate a cloud of microscopic water droplets. If the air is cold enough, this trail will comprise tiny ice crystals.[1]

The wingtip vortices which trail from the wingtips and wing flaps of aircraft are sometimes partly visible due to condensation in the cores of the vortices. Each vortex is a mass of spinning air and the air pressure at the centre of the vortex is very low. These wingtip vortices are not the same as contrails.

Depending on atmospheric conditions, contrails may be visible for only a few seconds or minutes, or may persist for many hours which may affect climate.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail

[sharkman]

I think if this was military, they would announce it as such to alleviate fears. Apparently the military would never do something this close to a populated area. Could it be a foreign military? Anyone have subs quiet enough to sneak in?

[Topaz]

Remember the passenger plane that took off from a New York airport a couple years ago and there were people saying they saw somethng come up of the water or out of the sky and shot down the plane? It happened when Clinton was still President. Some people believed that the navy were going exercises, in the area, in a sub and had shot down the plane by mistake. Could the US navy screw up again?

[DogOnPorch]

I think if this was military, they would announce it as such to alleviate fears. Apparently the military would never do something this close to a populated area. Could it be a foreign military? Anyone have subs quiet enough to sneak in?

This is indeed the worst case scenario and has been mentioned by some news sources.

[Moonlight Graham]

This was clearly launched by Iran in a show of aggressive force. The US must invade Iran now.

[DogOnPorch]

This was clearly launched by Iran in a show of aggressive force. The US must invade Iran now.

If it was the worst case scenario, it would more likely be North Korea as they accepted 12 old Golf class ballistic missile submarines for scrap in the 1990s...some worry exists that the NKs planned to salvage the missile systems or the subs themselves.

[Wilber]

On the other hand if the North Koreans ever did launch a missile at the US they would cease to be a problem for the world less than an hour afterward.

[sharkman]

It seems like the various military branches are playing dumb, saying,"Gee, we don't have any idea what it is". Yet with their radar and tracking technology they knew when it launched, and scrambled defense assets. They also know where it landed, but I haven't heard anything about the length of flight, nor the media asking about this or if it detonated. Weird all the way around.

[Wilber]

Interesting. A contrail would be my first inclination. A picture of a contrail taken into the sunset could look something like that depending on the upper level winds. There are quite a few eastbound flights from Honolulu that transit the LA area and it could be one of them. If the exact time and location was recorded, LA Center's records should indicate if there was such a flight in the area. Could also be a military flight but the same would apply. Unlike the media, I sure wouldn't jump to the conclusion it was a missile no matter what I thought it looked like.

[DogOnPorch]

It seems like the various military branches are playing dumb, saying,"Gee, we don't have any idea what it is". Yet with their radar and tracking technology they knew when it launched, and scrambled defense assets. They also know where it landed, but I haven't heard anything about the length of flight, nor the media asking about this or if it detonated. Weird all the way around.

Well that's the rub, isn't it? No explanation for something seen by millions. As the Norway spiral taught us...sometimes it is actually a missile. If it was an airliner, that should be easy enough to figure out...but the info is rather slim on this sighting so far.

A Russian Bulava SLBM tumbles out of control leaving a nice spiral.

[DogOnPorch]

Interesting. A contrail would be my first inclination. A picture of a contrail taken into the sunset could look something like that depending on the upper level winds. There are quite a few eastbound flights from Honolulu that transit the LA area and it could be one of them. If the exact time and location was recorded, LA Center's records should indicate if there was such a flight in the area. Could also be a military flight but the same would apply. Unlike the media, I sure wouldn't jump to the conclusion it was a missile no matter what I thought it looked like.

Yes...the evening conditions were perfect to produce this sort of illusion. The curve of the Earth and the direction of the flight can make it look like an object rising out of the sea then going straight up. As mentioned, what seems to take away from this is what looks like rocket engines...but that too could be an illusion.

[M.Dancer]

in the area, in a sub and had shot down the plane by mistake. Could the US navy screw up again?

Given that Subs do not have anti aircraft capabilities...could topaz screw up again?

[M.Dancer]

Aircraft

[Topaz]

Given that Subs do not have anti aircraft capabilities...could topaz screw up again?

Dancer, are you saying that subs can't shot off missiles?

[DogOnPorch]

Remember the passenger plane that took off from a New York airport a couple years ago and there were people saying they saw somethng come up of the water or out of the sky and shot down the plane? It happened when Clinton was still President. Some people believed that the navy were going exercises, in the area, in a sub and had shot down the plane by mistake. Could the US navy screw up again?

TWA 800 was downed by a short circut in a main fuel tank...not a US missile fired from a cruiser.

[M.Dancer]

Dancer, are you saying that subs can't shot off missiles?

No, I am saying subs can't "shot" off anti aircraft missiles. They don't carry them.

Are you saying they "shot" off a tomahawk or a harpoon missile and hit an airplane with it? At 16,000 feet?

And then, instead of causing damage that would like a missile strike, make it look like a fuel tank explosion?

Is that your line of reasoning?

[GostHacked]

Contrails is short for condendation trail....nothing to do with the fuel exactly, but the heat.

Indeed, I understand that very well. What comes out of a rockets engine can't be considered a contrail, what comes out of an airplane at 25,000 ft + can. But, I don't buy it that contrails last hours. Contrails do not make clouds.

[eyeball]

Aircraft

Mystery ‘missile’ launch likely just a plane, Pentagon says

“The Department of Defense ... is satisfied that the contrail was likely caused by an aircraft,” Col. Lapan said.

Just a plane? Surely a contrail that big had to come from a fairly large plane, like an airliner. It seems mysterious to me in this day and age of heightened paranoia and security measures that this contrail can't be tied to a specific flight number or flight plan, especially given the Navy, Air Force, the Missile Defense Agency, U.S. Northern Command and the North American Aerospace Defense Command as well as other U.S. agencies like the Federal Aviation Administration just spent 36 hours investigating this.

[Moonlight Graham]

If it was the worst case scenario, it would more likely be North Korea as they accepted 12 old Golf class ballistic missile submarines for scrap in the 1990s...some worry exists that the NKs planned to salvage the missile systems or the subs themselves.

The U.S. must invade both Iran and N.Korea then.