Khadr should make us ashamed to be Canadian

[DogOnPorch]

The Charter?! LOL. It was fought for by the Liberal Party of Canada so they could remake the country in their image.

And since they'd been in power for some time then are you suggesting they were fighting their own tyranny?

Well, they did like their Cuban vactations in the Trudeau government. But then, ol' Pierre was a wee bit of a Marxist underneath all that fuddle-duddle.

[jbg]

Man what a pile.

Army Guy claims widdle Omar could have left anytime he so desired. But he didn't desire and the proof of that is that he didnt leave.

The Taliban are, by all accounts, the most vicious and barbaric scum known to man; According to Army guy they skin people alive, cut the hands of schoolgirls and throw acid in the faces of women. Yet, suddenly, on that day in that compound, they became great beleivers in personal freedom of choice. Omar could have walked out the gate with the women and children and they would have said 'sure omar, thats fine. Just don't rat us out eh?"

He couldn't have left that compound without getting a bullet in his back. Just as Army Guy would be subject to being shot on the spot for cowardice in the face of the enemy should he have decided to walk away from some combat action he was involved in.

******************

He's been railroaded from the getgo.

By that logic so was every Nazi tried at Nuremberg. They, like Omar, were happy to be involved with bad people until the stars aligned differently. Too f***** bad.

[capricorn]

I forgot that the Charter was written by immortals that came down from on high.

Mere mortal Canadians didn't get to vote for or against the Charter. A document of such far reaching implications should have been put to a referendum.

[The_Squid]

By that logic so was every Nazi tried at Nuremberg. They, like Omar, were happy to be involved with bad people until the stars aligned differently. Too f***** bad.

You are seriously comparing Omar Khadr to those tried in Nuremberg? Seriously???? According to you, Omar is a modern day Rudolph Hess and Hermann Goring?

He was more like the scared teenage Germans sent to the front lines by the Nazis because they were running out of adult-sized troops. What did we do to child German soldiers?

[Guest American Woman]

You are seriously comparing Omar Khadr to those tried in Nuremberg? Seriously???? According to you, Omar is a modern day Rudolph Hess and Hermann Goring?

He was more like the scared teenage Germans sent to the front lines by the Nazis because they were running out of adult-sized troops. What did we do to child German soldiers?

While I also thought the comparison to Nazis wasn't appropriate since Omar was a minor, I don't think the comparison to child German soldiers is exactly accurate, either. But since you brought it up, do you believe that none of those child German soldiers wanted to be there? Do you believe none of them wanted to kill some enemy troops? At any rate, the German child soldiers were Germans and fighting with Germans, not killing Germans or Germany's allies.

Edited April 26, 2012 by American Woman

[capricorn]

He was more like the scared teenage Germans sent to the front lines by the Nazis because they were running out of adult-sized troops. What did we do to child German soldiers?

Recorded history doesn't agree with you.

In the Ruhr area of Germany, HJ boys practiced guerilla warfare against invading U.S. troops. In the forests, the boys stayed hidden until the tanks had passed, waiting for the foot soldiers. They would then spring up, shoot at them and throw grenades, inflicting heavy causalities, then dash away and disappear back into the forest. The Americans retaliated with furious air-attacks and leveled several villages in the surrounding area.

If the boys happened to get cornered by American patrols, they often battled until the last boy was killed rather than surrender. And the boys kept getting younger. American troops reported capturing armed 8-year-olds at Aachen in Western Germany and knocking out artillery units operated entirely by boys aged twelve and under. Girls were also used now, operating the 88mm anti-aircraft guns alongside the boys.

In February 1945, project Werewolf began, training German children as spies and saboteurs, intending to send them behind Allied lines with explosives and arsenic. But the project came to nothing as most of these would-be saboteurs were quickly captured or killed by the Allies as they advanced into the Reich.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/hitleryouth/hj-boy-soldiers.htm

These teenage fighters were hardened soldiers ready to kill and be killed.

[jbg]

He was more like the scared teenage Germans sent to the front lines by the Nazis because they were running out of adult-sized troops. What did we do to child German soldiers?

I really don't care about the thoughts and mental state of those trying to butcher us. I'm sorry, if it's us or them, I choose us.

[GostHacked]

I really don't care about the thoughts and mental state of those trying to butcher us. I'm sorry, if it's us or them, I choose us.

Well, when it comes to terrorism, who exactly is 'they'.. and who exactly is 'us'. I know this sounds like an ignorant statement ... but when we have crap like this ....

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/27/11424408-us-offers-safe-passage-to-afghan-taliban-leaders?lite

While this charade with Omar goes on .. the US is actually NEGOTIATING with the terrorists.

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan -- The United States and Afghanistan have agreed to "give safe passage" to representatives of the Afghan Taliban to help them to enter future peace talks, officials announced Friday.

The move comes just weeks ahead of a NATO summit in Chicago on the future of Afghanistan. It may also represent a significant step forward towards the resumption of peace talks that were suspended in Qatar last month.

So, who is the 'us'... and who is the 'them'.

[Guest American Woman]

While this charade with Omar goes on .. the US is actually NEGOTIATING with the terrorists.

Are you saying that's a bad thing?

So, who is the 'us'... and who is the 'them'.

I would wager the "us" is ... us ... and the "them" are those who have issued a jihad to kill as many Americans/westerners as possible - and are engaged in efforts to do so.

I doubt if any representatives of the Afghan Taliban involved in negotiations are convicted murderers of Americans/allies and I tend to doubt if they are of the jihad mindset, or most likely they would not want to be negotiating with us in peace talks.

So how, exactly, does this make what's going on with Omar a "charade?"

[dre]

Are you saying that's a bad thing?

I would wager the "us" is ... us ... and the "them" are those who have issued a jihad to kill as many Americans/westerners as possible - and are engaged in efforts to do so.

I doubt if any representatives of the Afghan Taliban involved in negotiations are convicted murderers of Americans/allies and I tend to doubt if they are of the jihad mindset, or most likely they would not want to be negotiating with us in peace talks.

So how, exactly, does this make what's going on with Omar a "charade?"

I doubt if any representatives of the Afghan Taliban involved in negotiations are convicted murderers of Americans/allies and I tend to doubt if they are of the jihad mindset, or most likely they would not want to be negotiating with us in peace talks.

Why not? I imagine they could care less whether you leave as a result of negotiations or war. They just want you gone for exactly the same reason the same people wanted the soviets gone. It has nothing to do with any "Jihadist mindset".

And Id wager that if they thought putting on polka dot dresses and singing Amazing Grace while standing on their heads might make the invaders bugger off home, they would give that a try as well.

[Guest American Woman]

These teenage fighters were hardened soldiers ready to kill and be killed.

Yes, they were, and I believe Omar likely was too.

Omar was less than two months away from his 16th birthday when he was captured; in Canada 17 year olds can join the Canadian army, so he was only a little more than one year away from being able to be a member of the Canadian forces, and he was less than two months away from being able to apply to the Reserves, yet he was on the side that Canadian troops were fighting in Afghanistan. I doubt he would have suddenly 'seen the light' in the time frame that we are talking about, so the "child soldier" aspect doesn't emit as much empathy as it would for others. Also, the Canadian embassy and Canada would have protected him had he chosen to not be involved in al Qaeda - an option, and protection, other child soldiers don't have available.

[eyeball]

Yes, they were, and I believe Omar likely was too.

Omar was less than two months away from his 16th birthday when he was captured

Yes but he was only 7 or 8 when they indoctrinated him and subverted his thinking. The Sec-Gen responsible Children and Armed Conflict says Khadr was not who you fervidly imagine he was.

In every sense Omar represents the classic child soldier narrative; recruited by unscrupulous groups to undertake actions at the bidding of adults to fight battles they barely understand. That Omar was abused by his own father exacerbates the harm done to this young man.

Special Representative of the Scretary-General for Children and Armed Conflict

in Canada 17 year olds can join the Canadian army

Apparently parents are also allowed to indoctrinate their 8 year old's into becoming terrorists.

[GostHacked]

Are you saying that's a bad thing?

Considering Bush and his mantra 'You are either with us, or you are with the terrorists.' this goes against everything the war on terror is about. You cannot negotiate with terrorists.

I would wager the "us" is ... us ... and the "them" are those who have issued a jihad to kill as many Americans/westerners as possible - and are engaged in efforts to do so.

I don't think it's that cut and dry.

I doubt if any representatives of the Afghan Taliban involved in negotiations are convicted murderers of Americans/allies and I tend to doubt if they are of the jihad mindset, or most likely they would not want to be negotiating with us in peace talks.

You doubt? It's not like negotiations have been tried before, and failed. Again, you cannot negotiate with terrorists.

So how, exactly, does this make what's going on with Omar a "charade?"

For many things already listed in this thread. The official story about Omar is wrong, and he is being used as an example that the US can do whatever they want with anyone they please.

The way Canada has treated Omar makes me ashamed to be Canadian. Let's go bomb another country.

[GostHacked]

Apparently parents are also allowed to indoctrinate their 8 year old's into becoming terrorists.

Instead we have ads on TV to join the military. We have TV shows for kids like in my days G.I. Joe that can essentially be considered indoctrination/propaganda. But no, we don't do that kind of thing in a civilized society right?

[Guest American Woman]

Considering Bush and his mantra 'You are either with us, or you are with the terrorists.' this goes against everything the war on terror is about. You cannot negotiate with terrorists.

Since Bush isn't the president any more, I'm not sure what his mantra has to do with how Obama's administration is handling things. But even under Bush, the U.S. did try to negotiate with the Taliban for bin Laden before going to war.

I don't think it's that cut and dry.

Why not?

You doubt? It's not like negotiations have been tried before, and failed. Again, you cannot negotiate with terrorists.

Since you recognize that negotiations with the Taliban have been tried before, I'm not sure why you think it's so odd that it's being discussed again; and I can't understand this "it's been tried before and failed" attitude. Good thing there are people in this world who don't declare defeat the first time something fails.

For many things already listed in this thread. The official story about Omar is wrong, and he is being used as an example that the US can do whatever they want with anyone they please.

Why is the official story about Omar wrong? - because you disagree with it? Furthermore, the U.S. has been trying to get Canada to take Omar for some time now. Canada doesn't seem to be too eager to do so; the Supreme Court ruling didn't even say that the Canadian government had to try to get Omar back to Canada, even as it was declaring his rights had been abused. As for your take on his being "used as an example," that's your opinion; I'd say it's more about the fact that he's convicted of killing an American soldier.

The way Canada has treated Omar makes me ashamed to be Canadian. Let's go bomb another country.

The way some of you Canadians feel about Omar makes me glad to be American.

Edited April 29, 2012 by American Woman

[dre]

But even under Bush, the U.S. did try to negotiate with the Taliban for bin Laden before going to war.

Not really. The Taliban asked for a formal extradition request, and the US didnt submit one. Thats not negotiating very hard.

[bush_cheney2004]

Not really. The Taliban asked for a formal extradition request, and the US didnt submit one. Thats not negotiating very hard.

The US and Afghanistan did not have an extradition treaty. Invasions do not require permission.

[jbg]

Yes but he was only 7 or 8 when they indoctrinated him and subverted his thinking. The Sec-Gen responsible Children and Armed Conflict says Khadr was not who you fervidly imagine he was.

**************

Apparently parents are also allowed to indoctrinate their 8 year old's into becoming terrorists.

So your logic is that since he's not responsible for how he is, Canada should let him roam the streets?

[Army Guy]

Considering Bush and his mantra 'You are either with us, or you are with the terrorists.' this goes against everything the war on terror is about. You cannot negotiate with terrorists.

Quote

For many things already listed in this thread. The official story about Omar is wrong, and he is being used as an example that the US can do whatever they want with anyone they please.

The way Canada has treated Omar makes me ashamed to be Canadian. Let's go bomb another country.

We can't negotiate with terrorist but we can let them go and forget what they have done, and be ashamed that we did not stand up and fight for him and his rights....in the middle of fighting for our own rights that he was trying to take away....i don't follow this logic...

[Guest American Woman]

Yes but he was only 7 or 8 when they indoctrinated him and subverted his thinking. The Sec-Gen responsible Children and Armed Conflict says Khadr was not who you fervidly imagine he was.

**************

Apparently parents are also allowed to indoctrinate their 8 year old's into becoming terrorists.

So your logic is that since he's not responsible for how he is, Canada should let him roam the streets?

I don't follow that line of thinking at all. Every 7 or 8 year old who was subjected to a childhood that affected their thinking isn't forgiven of crimes committed throughout their lives. As I pointed out, Omar was less than two months away from being able to legally join the Reserves in Canada, less than one year and two months away from being able to join the army; in that regard, I see the "child soldier" label as ambiguous at best.

[Guest American Woman]

We can't negotiate with terrorist but we can let them go and forget what they have done, and be ashamed that we did not stand up and fight for him and his rights....in the middle of fighting for our own rights that he was trying to take away....i don't follow this logic...

I don't get that either. I'm wondering if he's being sarcastic with the "can't negotiate with terrorists" bit .....

[WWWTT]

I doubt if any representatives of the Afghan Taliban involved in negotiations are convicted murderers of Americans/allies and I tend to doubt if they are of the jihad mindset, or most likely they would not want to be negotiating with us in peace talks.

American Woman were you drinking when you wrote this comment?

Just for the record,Hitler was never convicted of any of the war crimes he commited during WWII

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Canada should let him roam the streets?

As far as I can tell from what I have read,you are the only one suggesting this.

WWWTT

[Guest American Woman]

American Woman were you drinking when you wrote this comment?

Nope. Are you high?

Just for the record,Hitler was never convicted of any of the war crimes he commited during WWII

The Taliban didn't issue a jihad against the western world; that would be al Qeada. I'm definitely not saying that the Taliban is all warm and fuzzy, but I stand by my beliefs. I don't see anyone involved in a jihad, a desire to kill as many westerners as possible, as wanting to have "peace" talks with the very people they are professing a desire to kill. Do you? If they do, then I'd say we accomplished our mission. Wouldn't you?

As for Hitler, since you seem to think it's relevant, he committed suicide; he didn't stick around for peace talks.

[eyeball]

So your logic is that since he's not responsible for how he is, Canada should let him roam the streets?

In addition to an official apology and a couple hundred million in compensation, yes.