Khadr should make us ashamed to be Canadian

[cybercoma]

No declaration of war was made.

Because you can't declare war against 'terrorists'.

[GostHacked]

Because you can't declare war against 'terrorists'.

An important note that people seem to miss. It's an open to 'interpretation' which means you can do wtf you want.

[eyeball]

No we were not at War as it is tech laid out, in fact the entire Aghan conflict is not a war, no declaration was made, we are involved with the war on terroism, which is a play on words as once again considered an operation...WE Are in Combat in Afghanistan, fighting with US forces side by side...So the government can play with all the words they want, but out troops are fighting and dying, bringing the fight to the bad guys....I'd call it a war...

You want it both ways though. If this little spat is ever technically regarded as a war then Omar Khadr is a POW and so are all the other enemy soldiers we captured. If this is technically a war then our side is suddenly up to its neck in the middle of a legal minefield.

If we knowingly participated in an undeclared military attack with no regard for the Geneva conventions then we're war criminals. This is why Omar's mother will never be charged with anything. Her continued innocence is our ally in this little play on words you disdain yet hide behind every time you step foot in Afghanistan.

Notice how anal you get when it comes to defending the legal definitions that come within a hairsbreadth of technically declaring Omar a child soldier. You're not one to mince words when that little game plays out are you?

You make me ashamed to be Canadian.

Edited May 1, 2012 by eyeball

[g_bambino]

Because you can't declare war against 'terrorists'.

I'm not sure what Canadian law says on that, if anything.

[dre]

Can't have it both ways bitch about NATO Pers searching homes at gun piont and they say you have the right to defend your country by hiding behind other inocent civilians

Im not bitching about that. I understand why Nato does this and its to be expected. But a lot of Afghans dont want us there, so I also expect many of them to resist, and find it actually quite reasonable that they would do so.

Did you even read up on any of this, do some research, Afghan freedom fighters did in fact have a distinctive uniform or arm bands,clear chain of command , carried arms openly

That may have been true in some cases but not in most. What we saw there was a highly chaotic and disorganized guerilla insurgency, and open rebellion. There were organized efforts run by regional warlords but there were also an open citizens revolt that started out in smaller towns then eventually spread to the large cities. Firebombings, carbombings, assasination of government officials.

It means everything because the victor always gets his way in courts,

This part at least is correct. But thats writing on pieces of paper, and it has no bearing on the moral right of citizens rebell against a foreign military occupation, and destroy any of its moving parts through any means, at any time.

[guyser]

It is also again'st Canadian law to become involved in a war again'st the Canadian militray or her allieds...So much much for that thought process.

er....he didnt engage in a war against canada .

Best we can do is hurry up and bring wee Omar home before his sentence runs out.

Only way we can control him.

Edited May 1, 2012 by guyser

[cybercoma]

An important note that people seem to miss. It's an open to 'interpretation' which means you can do wtf you want.

Exactly. Then look shock when a 7 year old was brought to Afghanistan and brainwashed by fundamentalists, only to use any means necessary to fight against the US. If he even threw the grenade.

Edited May 2, 2012 by cybercoma

[DogOnPorch]

Exactly. Then look shock when a 7 year old was brought to Afghanistan and brainwashed by fundamentalists, only to use any means necessary to fight against the US. If he even threw the grenade.

During WW2, Russian partisans would cut the eyelids off of German soldiers before hanging them by their heels and torturing them to death. The Germans would respond by liquidating an entire village. Dogs and cats included.

I'm not sure who's the 'winner' in such a situation.

[bush_cheney2004]

...I'm not sure who's the 'winner' in such a situation.

The village mice?

[Army Guy]

You want it both ways though. If this little spat is ever technically regarded as a war then Omar Khadr is a POW and so are all the other enemy soldiers we captured. If this is technically a war then our side is suddenly up to its neck in the middle of a legal minefield.

Eyeball your missing the piont, there are many tupes of combatants, and many typers of conflicts...war does not need to be declared see our last 3 or 4 deployments..., i'm sure they have all the legal beagal stuff looked after...Liberals are pretty good at covering there ass.

If we knowingly participated in an undeclared military attack with no regard for the Geneva conventions then we're war criminals.

Your right but not in this case.

This is why Omar's mother will never be charged with anything.

I'm not sure why she has not been charged with anything , but i will agree with you her kick her ass out....

Her continued innocence is our ally in this little play on words you disdain yet hide behind every time you step foot in Afghanistan.

Not sure what your getting at plse explain.

Notice how anal you get when it comes to defending the legal definitions that come within a hairsbreadth of technically declaring Omar a child soldier.

Eyeball they are not my legal definations, but those of the genva convention and inter national law and our own law, they are all available on goggle if you wish to read them...so i don't have to continue spewing them out....

You're not one to mince words when that little game plays out are you?

You make me ashamed to be Canadian.

Look if your asking me if i'm a big fan of Omar and his merry gang no i'm not, i have absolutely no time for any of them. In fact spent many tours hunting them down to kill them....i don't care if he's Canadian, Russian, African, black, purple with warts on his dick ... they are part of an organization that maims and kills for fun, they use terror to get their message out or to make a piont....they stand for everything that is again'st every moral or Canadian value every taught me, As a Canadian soldier they stand for everything we stand again'st.

You don't have to agree, in fact that is your right, garenteed by those same soldiers....Now some will say it is all of our jobs to ensure ALL Canadians right are protected...here is were we disagree, THE RIGHTS OF THE MANY WILL ALWAYS OUT WIEGH THE RIGHTS OF THE FEW....Omar and his entire family are taking advantage of your good will and using that card "we are Canadians please protect us"...and yet have no problem in acting again'st our best interests or laws...

I've seen these guys in action up close and personal, and have said or explained this many times, and yet words can not discribe the pain , the smells, the sorrow, the anguish , that their own people suffered at their hands, the cutting off of a tiny little girls hands, the skinning alive of an old man, is just some of the mild ones, and yet we as Canadians can not stand up and say this is wrong...we need to do something.

And if that makes you ashamed of being a Canadian then sure, sit down in front of your computer, enjoying your pizza,and say screw them...I on the other hand have spent over 2 years of my life, my families life , my sons and daughters lifes serving my country here in Afghanistan trying to make a small difference...what have you done...

[Army Guy]

Im not bitching about that. I understand why Nato does this and its to be expected. But a lot of Afghans dont want us there, so I also expect many of them to resist, and find it actually quite reasonable that they would do so.

It was you that brought it up, as a complaint, and yet if you understand it then why bring it up if it was the norm, The Afghan government has since changed those rules NATO can not make night calls any more unless authorized by the Afghan government.

You quote ALOT, not true, when compared to the total population it is not alot, but a few...The average Afghan wants to live in peace, raise their families, and provide for them....thats it they would perfer we did that for them, however after 30 years of war, they would be ready to follow anyone that could bring these simple items to the table...

That may have been true in some cases but not in most. What we saw there was a highly chaotic and disorganized guerilla insurgency, and open rebellion. There were organized efforts run by regional warlords but there were also an open citizens revolt that started out in smaller towns then eventually spread to the large cities. Firebombings, carbombings, assasination of government officials.

Not true for the most part there was 3 groups involved in the begining, Northern alliance which was assisted by NATO, NATO and then the Taliban....for the most part the people were to scared to get involved, and although i won't say there was no civilians involved, they did not play a big role in the intial fight...Now how you discribe the northern alliance is on you, but they were made up of many warlords and they did not all agree, but thats on par for Afghan...it still does not change the fact they or most wore the same uniforms, carried armes openly and claimed to be northern alliance.

This part at least is correct. But thats writing on pieces of paper, and it has no bearing on the moral right of citizens rebell against a foreign military occupation, and destroy any of its moving parts through any means, at any time.

moral rights have no bearing on the law, those laws are meant to protect the majority of people, hey you want to pick up arms bring the fight to the bad guys, then go for it, however remember it is those that win that judge the others.

[Army Guy]

er....he didnt engage in a war against canada .

War does not have to be declared, and Canadian law is very clear on this IT IS AGAIN"ST THE LAW TO ENGAGE IN ANY COMBAT ACTIVITIES EITHER DIRCECTLY OR IN SUPPORT OF THE ENEMY IN WHICH OUR FORCES OR OUR ALLIEDS ARE ENGAGED....you can check on the treason laws to start, however there are some more out there...

Edited May 2, 2012 by Army Guy

[DogOnPorch]

The village mice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTIlOlVT3LI

[cybercoma]

War does not have to be declared, and Canadian law is very clear on this IT IS AGAIN"ST THE LAW TO ENGAGE IN ANY COMBAT ACTIVITIES EITHER DIRCECTLY OR IN SUPPORT OF THE ENEMY IN WHICH OUR FORCES OR OUR ALLIEDS ARE ENGAGED....you can check on the treason laws to start, however there are some more out there...

There was no declaration of war, so I guess our allies weren't really engaged against anyone.

[eyeball]

I'm not sure why she has not been charged with anything , but i will agree with you her kick her ass out....

Think about what it is she should be charged with, what legal basis would anyone have for simply kicking her ass out? She would need to be charged with an alleged crime and tried and presumably serve a sentence before deporting her.

Not sure what your getting at plse explain.

I think she should be charged with the war crime of indoctrinating a child soldier because that's what she did. Is it not obvious however that such a charge would admit that her son was in fact a soldier and therefore also a POW? That would blow our government's and much of our allies narrative surrounding this so-called war completely out of the water and that's why Omar's mother is not being charged - her continued innocence is the linchpin that's holding everything together.

[g_bambino]

I think she should be charged with the war crime of indoctrinating a child soldier because that's what she did.

That seems a bit hard to prove.

[ed.: c/e]

Edited May 2, 2012 by g_bambino

[g_bambino]

There was no declaration of war, so I guess our allies weren't really engaged against anyone.

Nonsense. Canada hasn't declared war since the Second World War. Does that mean to you that the North Koreans were "noone"? The Yugoslavs?

[g_bambino]

[ed.: Del odd double post]

Edited May 2, 2012 by g_bambino

[guyser]

War does not have to be declared, and Canadian law is very clear on this IT IS AGAIN"ST THE LAW TO ENGAGE IN ANY COMBAT ACTIVITIES EITHER DIRCECTLY OR IN SUPPORT OF THE ENEMY IN WHICH OUR FORCES OR OUR ALLIEDS ARE ENGAGED....you can check on the treason laws to start, however there are some more out there...

Canadian Law is clear, clear enough for me to see it aint happening.

No go on treason either. He wasn't in Canada when he was fighting.

If there was one thing I can count on , it is this govt doing or finding some way to peg a charge on Omar. That they havent speaks volumes .

If Omar is not sent back prior to completing his sentence, then he walk free when he arrives. I'd much rather he be sent back early and we can put conditions on him.

[eyeball]

That seems a bit hard to prove.

[ed.: c/e]

But certainly worth pursuing given the letter from the UN office for Children and Armed Conflict that says;

The recruitment and use of children, like Omar, who are recruited under the age of 15 years is in itself a war crime.

What would you suggest Omar's mother be charged with?

Edited May 3, 2012 by eyeball

[Army Guy]

There was no declaration of war, so I guess our allies weren't really engaged against anyone.

Does it say anything about a declaration of war in my statement, does the laws again'st treason say anything about a declaration having to be stated first...

[Army Guy]

Under s46 of the Criminal Code, a person commits "high treason" who a) kills, attempts to kill, wounds, imprisons, or restrains the sovereign, wages war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto, or c) assists an enemy at war with Canada or any armed force against whom Canadian forces are engaged in hostilities, even if no state of war exists

My link

The punishment for high treason is life imprisonment, without parole eligibility for 25 years. A person commits "treason" who a) uses force or violence for the purpose of overthrowing the government of Canada or a province, discloses, without lawful authority, military or scientific material to agents of a foreign state, if he or she knows or should know that the material may be used to impair Canada's safety or defence, or c) engages in certain listed conspiracies or attempted offences. The punishment for treason is life imprisonment; normal parole rules apply. Canadian citizens and persons owing allegiance to Her Majesty in right of Canada who commit acts of high treason or treason are punishable under Canadian criminal law even if the acts were performed outside Canada.

The Criminal Code also penalizes such acts as alarming the sovereign, assisting an alien enemy to leave Canada, failing to make reasonable efforts to prevent the commission of high treason, intimidating Parliament or a legislature, sabotage, incitement to mutiny and sedition.

Or you can try this link for Canadian laws on terrorism.

My link

These are just some of the Canadian laws that were broken.

[GostHacked]

Under s46 of the Criminal Code, a person commits "high treason" who a) kills, attempts to kill, wounds, imprisons, or restrains the sovereign, wages war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto, or c) assists an enemy at war with Canada or any armed force against whom Canadian forces are engaged in hostilities, even if no state of war exists

My link

The punishment for high treason is life imprisonment, without parole eligibility for 25 years. A person commits "treason" who a) uses force or violence for the purpose of overthrowing the government of Canada or a province, discloses, without lawful authority, military or scientific material to agents of a foreign state, if he or she knows or should know that the material may be used to impair Canada's safety or defence, or c) engages in certain listed conspiracies or attempted offences. The punishment for treason is life imprisonment; normal parole rules apply. Canadian citizens and persons owing allegiance to Her Majesty in right of Canada who commit acts of high treason or treason are punishable under Canadian criminal law even if the acts were performed outside Canada.

The Criminal Code also penalizes such acts as alarming the sovereign, assisting an alien enemy to leave Canada, failing to make reasonable efforts to prevent the commission of high treason, intimidating Parliament or a legislature, sabotage, incitement to mutiny and sedition.

Or you can try this link for Canadian laws on terrorism.

My link

These are just some of the Canadian laws that were broken.

1 - He was not trying to overthrow the Canadian government, any part of it.

2 - Was not privy to any sensitive information in order to give to another country.

3 - The engaging of listed conspiracies or attempted offences... seems quite vague.

[eyeball]

If there was one thing I can count on , it is this govt doing or finding some way to peg a charge on Omar. That they havent speaks volumes .

They won't, for the same reason they won't go after his mother.

I wonder what would happen if Omar decided to pursue a civil suit against his mother and the court ruled in his favour?

[g_bambino]

But certainly worth pursuing given the letter from the UN office for Children and Armed Conflict...

Well, I guess we should first establish which authority you think should charge her with comitting a war crime.