U.S. Democracy In Decline

[Zeitgeist]

For the past few years I argued that the Canadian government under the Liberals had stopped respecting the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and had shamed Canada’s history and founding cultures, which I still think is true on the whole.  However, the U.S. is currently being directed by one man in a way that dispenses with checks and balances.  To just capriciously impose tariffs in a fit of childish rage, and to watch the branches of government bend the knee to this recklessness is a signal of the U.S.‘s demise.  Canada is better off reducing its dependence on the U.S. and maintaining its sovereignty.

Edited October 26, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[Deluge]

16 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

For the past few years I argued that the Canadian government under the Liberals had stopped respecting the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and had shamed Canada’s history and founding cultures, which I still think is true on the whole.  However, the U.S. is currently being directed by one man in a way that dispenses with checks and balances.  To just capriciously impose tariffs in a fit of childish rage, and to watch the branches of government bend the knee to this recklessness is a signal of the U.S.‘s demise.  Canada is better off reducing its dependence on the U.S. and maintaining its sovereignty.

Trump is compensating for over 12 years of hardcore woke activism. It's going to take some time to get our Constitutional Republic back to where it needs to be. 

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, Deluge said:

Trump is compensating for over 12 years of hardcore woke activism. It's going to take some time to get our Constitutional Republic back to where it needs to be. 

What's that got to do with an alternator or the price of blueberries?

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Deluge said:

Trump is compensating for over 12 years of hardcore woke activism. It's going to take some time to get our Constitutional Republic back to where it needs to be. 

I appreciate the moves against the woke stuff.  I just think the tariffs are making a mess and haven’t been implemented responsibly.  One man is creating policies on the fly based on temperament and vibes that have serious implications for workers, businesses, families, and international relations.  It’s reckless.  

[paxamericana]

22 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I appreciate the moves against the woke stuff.  I just think the tariffs are making a mess and haven’t been implemented responsibly.  One man is creating policies on the fly based on temperament and vibes that have serious implications for workers, businesses, families, and international relations.  It’s reckless.  

My main critique here is about substance. You are missing the main reason for this shall we say “renegotiation” of the world order. The western allies are no longer war ravaged and does not warrant special trade permission with the United States, they have also aged out and can no longer provide a meaningful market for trade much less a worker force that can pay for a new trade deal. Lastly and the most important, there is no longer a big bad Soviet wolf out to steal the American’s lunch. So two pillars of economic and security, that have created your world view is now no longer applicable in this brave new world. The American empire is pulling back, from its global presence to figure out this new era. We’re in the middle of figuring that out for ourselves. So until such time that the Americans feel the need to re-engage with the world, you’ll see a quickening of the economic decline, war and famine amongst previous allies and reemergence of old rivalries. See Pakistan and Afghanistan as an example. The American post world war 2 order only momentarily paused history. What you’re seeing now is more typical of history, when nations pursue their own interests and policies. 

Edited October 26, 2025 by paxamericana

[User]

You are conflating Democracy with your economic and political positions on issues. 

[Zeitgeist]

16 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

My main critique here is about substance. You are missing the main reason for this shall we say “renegotiation” of the world order. The western allies are no longer war ravaged and does not warrant special trade permission with the United States, they have also aged out and can no longer provide a meaningful market for trade much less a worker force that can pay for a new trade deal. Lastly and the most important, there is no longer a big bad Soviet wolf out to steal the American’s lunch. So two pillars that have created your world view is now no longer applicable in this brave new world. The American empire is pulling back, from its Global presence to figure out this new era. We’re in the middle of figuring that out for ourselves. So until such time that the Americans feel the need to re-engage with the world, you’ll see a quickening of the economic decline, war and famine amongst previous allies and reemergence of old rivalries. See Pakistan and Afghanistan as an example. The American post world war 2 order only momentarily paused history. We are all now moving along the “usual” historical path. The World Police is on sabbatical. You children will have to learn how to play nice with one another, or don’t. Either way, we don’t care.

The Americans basically sat out WW1 and only joined WW2 after they were attacked halfway through the war. No doubt the U.S. has been the big economic engine in the 20th century, turned the tide of WW2, and will continue to have economic weight, but more players are coming.  A penurious U.S. that’s on the take will just push Africa and most of Asia into China’s hands.  If China and India are where the growth and advancements are happening, and the trade agreements are predictable, many countries that feel mistreated by the U.S. will simply form new partnerships.  Go where the opportunity is always rules.

The U.S. is a declining export market for Canada, albeit a big one.  The adjustment will be hard, but if we have to go down that path we will, and the harder and costlier this move is, the less interest Canadians will have in getting involved with the U.S.   It’s just human nature and economics.  I don’t even doubt that some of what the U.S. is doing is undoing some unfair trade that needed to be addressed, but the excesses are clear now to too many people.  The perception is of despotism and protection of incompetence more than simply levelling the playing field. The U.S. over time will indeed become less productive, less advanced, and more isolated if it continues down this road.

Edited October 26, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[Deluge]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

What's that got to do with an alternator or the price of blueberries?

I've been saying that since Covid, you piece of shit. Why again did we shut down civilization? Oh, that's right, because Covid was the only thing killing people. lol

[eyeball]

17 minutes ago, Deluge said:

Why again did we shut down civilization? Oh, that's right, because Covid was the only thing killing people. lol

Only old farts so I was told hereabouts - you guys treated it like an opportunity lost. We had no choice, we had to defend ourselves. You'll understand when you're an old fart one day.

Yep, we didn't call it the nanny state for nothing LMAO! 

[Nationalist]

@Zeitgeist and @paxamericana

Boys...none of this has anything to do with democracy. The US democracy is not in decline. Elections happen and are adhered to.

Is the US economy in decline? Perhaps.  The whole western world is in decline...financially and socially. 

Question: are the European nation partially responsible for the debt of the US? Of course they are. The US has been carrying Europe since WWII.

Have the tariffs been whimsical in their implementation? It does appear that way. But at some point the US had to level the playing field and stop policing the world.

Ukraine has little to no value to the US. Hell it has no value to Europe either. 

Israel has no value to any of us either.

The US, Canada and Europe need to pull back their empire building and stop sticking our noses where we have no real stake in matters.

[Deluge]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Only old farts so I was told hereabouts - you guys treated it like an opportunity lost. We had no choice, we had to defend ourselves. You'll understand when you're an old fart one day.

Yep, we didn't call it the nanny state for nothing LMAO! 

YOU hid in your safety basements like good little cultists. 

High prices is all on you degenerates, not us.  

[paxamericana]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

If China and India are where the growth and advancements are happening

Just no. India and China are both rapidly aging society. https://www.newsweek.com/india-fertility-rate-alarm-2122755

The places that hasn’t industrialized by now is Never going to industrialize. They simply lack the geography and by virtue, mineral access that supports industrialization. We are all globally aging. This means that consumption habits changes with age. Technological development will slow down as the money supply and young labor talent decline. It’s the people in their 20s and 30s that innovate. 

Stop thinking Canada has an alternative, no one has an alternative to America. Trump knows this, that’s why you all got slapped with tariffs. He got you all by balls. Best you realize that and pucker up.

[gatomontes99]

Crime down

Trade is trending on our favor

Gas prices are down

Middle East peace (for now)

8 wars/conflicts solved

Transmania on the decline

Drug abuse on the decline

Drug runners dying

Biden Banana Republic pawns getting investigated

Government spending down

Waste, fraud and abuse being eliminated

The border is secure 

Illegals being sent home

Voter ID 

Obama pawns being investigated for their real election interference 

And y'all want to say democracy is on the decline? No. The Republic is on the rise and our elections are becoming more secure than ever. Yes, paper ballots is a good thing. Yes, voter ID is a good thing. 

What they really mean, when they say democracy is in trouble, is that they don't get to dictate their will any more so they are upset. That is all it means. 

 

Edited October 27, 2025 by gatomontes99

[Zeitgeist]

10 hours ago, paxamericana said:

Just no. India and China are both rapidly aging society. https://www.newsweek.com/india-fertility-rate-alarm-2122755

The places that hasn’t industrialized by now is Never going to industrialize. They simply lack the geography and by virtue, mineral access that supports industrialization. We are all globally aging. This means that consumption habits changes with age. Technological development will slow down as the money supply and young labor talent decline. It’s the people in their 20s and 30s that innovate. 

Stop thinking Canada has an alternative, no one has an alternative to America. Trump knows this, that’s why you all got slapped with tariffs. He got you all by balls. Best you realize that and pucker up.

Basically we need to go back to high immigration and give up on America, enhance our domestic market and production, and strike deals with the BRICS.  The result will be that Canada will be more culturally aligned with the Middle East and Asia.  The US will be under similar demographic pressure.  

Edited October 27, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[Nationalist]

9 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Basically we need to go back to high immigration and give up on America, enhance our domestic market and production, and strike deals with the BRICS.  

High Immigration?

Have you not been paying attention?

[Zeitgeist]

45 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

High Immigration?

Have you not been paying attention?

Yup, it’s a disaster, but that’s what happens when there are no other viable options.  I have my own take on how we ended up with low birth rates, but it should be painfully obvious: collapse of traditional values, MAID, unlimited abortion rights, free birth control, porn, estrogen in the water from birth control and plastics, LGBTQ+ propaganda…

So now, it’s only the Muslims and natives having kids, which basically means you need to memorize your land acknowledgment and buy your prayer mat.  The Trudeau government already shamed Canada’s founding cultures as patriarchal, genocidal, and cis normative.

Trump is basically trying to suck up whatever resources and money he can to protect what’s left of the American Dream.  Canada is caught in the middle of an inward looking America looking after its own interests and a developing world seeking a better life.  Britain and Europe are already mostly overrun.  Canada is getting there.

Edited October 27, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[paxamericana]

12 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yup, it’s a disaster.  

Mhmmm,  instead of importing more foreigners that’ll cause you more heart burn, why don’t you just give up and become a State? Literally your problems will disappear overnight.

As usual, Orange man was right.

Edited October 27, 2025 by paxamericana

[Nationalist]

14 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yup, it’s a disaster, but that’s what happens when there are no other viable options.  I have my own take on how we ended up with low birth rates, but it should be painfully obvious: collapse of traditional values, MAID, unlimited abortion rights, free birth control, porn, estrogen in the water from birth control and plastics, LGBTQ+ propaganda…

So now, it’s only the Muslims and natives having kids, which basically means you need to memorize your land acknowledgment and buy your prayer mat.  The Trudeau government already shamed Canada’s founding cultures as patriarchal, genocidal, and cis normative.

Trump is basically trying to suck up whatever resources and money he can to protect what’s left of the American Dream.  Canada is caught in the middle of an inward looking America looking after its own interests and a developing world seeking a better life.  Britain and Europe are already mostly overrun.  Canada is getting there.

And I'd much prefer we do NOT allow it to get there.

[WestCanMan]

17 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I appreciate the moves against the woke stuff.  I just think the tariffs are making a mess and haven’t been implemented responsibly.  One man is creating policies on the fly based on temperament and vibes that have serious implications for workers, businesses, families, and international relations.  It’s reckless.  

There was nothing wrong with imposing tariffs on behalf of the American people in early 2025, but imposing tariffs because he was personally upset by a TV commercial was contemptible, and light years beneath his station.  

Still, it's not like it wasn't within his purview to impose tariffs. He is elected to have and to wield that kind of power, and he did nothing to threaten American democracy by doing so.

The kind of misuse of power that actually tears at the foundations of the US democracy is when the demonrats weaponize the FBI and DoJ as attack dogs against their political opponents, even going so far as to have them blatantly commit felonies in the course of their underhanded activities.

The US is no longer a democracy once a political party takes down the opposition with the misuse of judiciary and the federal police force, and Biden even went so far as floating the idea of turning the SC into the Dems' own kangaroo court. 

The US came extremely close to 1-party rule, and it was not under Donald Trump.

[Zeitgeist]

12 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Mhmmm,  instead of importing more foreigners that’ll cause you more heart burn, why don’t you just give up and become a State? Literally your problems will disappear overnight. 

It’s not that simple though.  Quebec and the provinces won’t want to give up their power.  The federal government in some form is necessary to take care of the territories, natives, interprovincial trade, etc., in both French and English.  The only way it really works is by somehow retaining 10 provinces/states, three territories, and some at least minimal government in Ottawa.  Also most Canadians want to keep Canada sovereign. Economic union is the only path.  Over time reduce duplication then who knows?  6-10 states and 3 territories would be acceptable to me, but you can’t really eliminate Ottawa. Canada means something to all Canadians.  We have an interesting and successful history with honourable achievements.  That can’t be undervalued. If Canadians feel disrespected, they’ll turn away from the U.S. even under heavy economic pressure that would no doubt negatively impact the U.S. The answer is creative solutions and diplomacy.  Trump can’t even have fun and promise to wear a Jays jersey if the Dodgers lose a silly bet. His latest tariff stunt is reckless and despotic. Canadians won’t easily get over this.  

Edited October 27, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[paxamericana]

9 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

His latest tariff stunt is reckless and despotic. Canadians won’t easily get over this

He’s stalling for time. He wants more American investment before he allows more Canadian investment in the wrong sector. Trump doesn’t need more Canadian auto parts, he wants raw or processed minerals. Canada is an economic competitor to the United States in many respects.

[WestCanMan]

14 hours ago, paxamericana said:

He’s stalling for time. He wants more American investment before he allows more Canadian investment in the wrong sector. Trump doesn’t need more Canadian auto parts, he wants raw or processed minerals. Canada is an economic competitor to the United States in many respects.

Canada has about 11% of the combined Canada-US population.

If we make 10% of the domestic vehicles for those two countries, that should be fine.

But if America wants a "We do all the vehicle manufacturing, GFYS" relationship, then that's fine, they can build all the Fords, Chevies and GM's they want, we just won't buy them. Any of them. And we will drop the tariffs and import quotas on vehicles from Europe and Asia. 

[Nationalist]

5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Canada has about 11% of the combined Canada-US population.

If we make 10% of the domestic vehicles for those two countries, that should be fine.

But if America wants a "We do all the vehicle manufacturing, GFYS" relationship, then that's fine, they can build all the Fords, Chevies and GM's they want, we just won't buy them. Any of them. And we will drop the tariffs and import quotas on vehicles from Europe and Asia. 

I can tell you this...I'll never buy another Ford. I have an Escape that has needed a new transmission already and...a replacement water pump. In the case of the water pump, the mechanic showed me the original. It was fcking PLASTIC! Now...what happens to plastic when it is heated and cooled over and over?

No...I'll never buy another FORD.

[paxamericana]

11 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

But if America wants a "We do all the vehicle manufacturing, GFYS" relationship,

It's a bit more complicated but essentially the labour intensive part of manufacturing will be going to Mexico. 

[WestCanMan]

4 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

It's a bit more complicated but essentially the labour intensive part of manufacturing will be going to Mexico. 

We can't afford to have the US trying to destroy our country at the same time as the LPOC is doing it.