U.S. Democracy In Decline

[bush_cheney2004]

10 hours ago, CdnFox said:

...America is going to become a smaller, weaker less powerful nation. Canada and others will find new markets and ways of doing business. We''ll take your money but i doubt the relationship will ever be the same and america will be worse for it, 

 

 

Based on your description, looks like Canada has far more to figure out than the United States.  We already fought our civil war, and emerged stronger for it.   Canada is weaker...now.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Based on your description, looks like Canada has far more to figure out than the United States.  We already fought our civil war, and emerged stronger for it.   Canada is weaker...now.

Again you show a lack of understanding. I'm afraid you don't have the education to speak intelligently on the subject.

Canadians aren't so mad at other Canadians that they're shooting people who say what they don't like to hear in public. They're not so messed up that they're instructing the intelligence apparatus to create false reports about their political opponents, we're chasing after their political opponents to try and put them in jail. They're not so afraid of one man that if he says something stupid like Reagan loved tariffs nobody's got the balls to stand up to him.

Canada definitely has its issues. But America is weaker right now.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, CdnFox said:

Canada definitely has its issues. But America is weaker right now.

 

No...America is the same as it ever was.   Always had internal conflicts...country was actually born from revolution.   If I don't understand Canada, then surely you do not understand America.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Based on your description, looks like Canada has far more to figure out than the United States.  We already fought our civil war, and emerged stronger for it.   Canada is weaker...now.

Why do Americans always seem to frame their development thru the lens of violent crucibles and bloody baptisms without which you'd be inferior?

It sounds more like an excuse for these things than a reward.

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No...America is the same as it ever was.   Always had internal conflicts...country was actually born from revolution.   If I don't understand Canada, then surely you do not understand America.

Nothing is ever the same as it ever was.

Empire's rise and they fall. And usually they last about 3 to 400 years. Some stretch it may be a hundred years beyond that but not many. You look at Rome, the Chinese dynasties, the Mongol empire, britannia and her empire, spain, virtually any of them.

America is in a state of decay, and we see this again and again in history. They are already growing weaker and will continue to do so as the internal rot continues. At the going rate based on history within 100 years America will be a shadow of itself.

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Why do Americans always seem to frame their development thru the lens of violent crucibles and bloody baptisms without which you'd be inferior?

It sounds more like an excuse for these things than a reward.

 

Because that is American history and reality.  The reward speaks for itself.

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Nothing is ever the same as it ever was.

Empire's rise and they fall. 

 

 

So when does the Canadian empire start ?

[eyeball]

19 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Because that is American history and reality.  The reward speaks for itself.

Which is what exactly and how?

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Which is what exactly and how?

 

Well...let's see:   Independence from Great Britain, "manifest destiny", war to preserve the Union, World Wars and Cold War won with allies, dollar hegemony, worldwide cultural influence, #1 destination for immigrants (legal and illegal), and #1 oil producing nation.

American "democracy" really means conquest, industrialization, and strength through conflict/competition.  Superman's cover story version was "Truth, Justice, and the American Way".

Not bad for a bunch of losers ! 

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

American "democracy" really means conquest, industrialization, and strength through conflict/competition.  Superman's cover story version was "Truth, Justice, and the American Way".

A cartoonish fiction for sure.

Canadian democracy is more cooperative and conciliatory - and a whole lot less bloody and dramatic.

Our lifespans are longer too.

10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Not bad for a bunch of losers! 

You can earn a trophy just for participating up here. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Canadian democracy is more cooperative and conciliatory - and a whole lot less bloody and dramatic.

 

Oh sure..."Peace, order, and good government"...that's the Canadian way, which is fine.   Canada should do Canada the way it wants to.

But the Americans want to do things the American way...can get messy at times.  And that's OK.

[eyeball]

10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

But the Americans want to do things the American way...can get messy at times.  And that's OK.

Except now you people want your way with us and it's not okay even amongst many of you.

I always knew it would go this way but the number of Americans who still value having friends in the world is encouraging, the rest of you might have to go thru them first. Maybe after another civil war.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Except now you people want your way with us and it's not okay even amongst many of you.

 

Just ignore the Americans either way.   Assert your independence and moral superiority and stop taking those Yankee dollars.    Find other foreign markets. Stop consuming U.S. media.  Just stop it all.   Not gonna happen, right ?

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Just ignore the Americans either way.   Assert your independence and moral superiority and stop taking those Yankee dollars.    Find other foreign markets. Stop consuming U.S. media.  Just stop it all.   Not gonna happen, right ?

We watch you like a heron. Used to be you rarely noticed or paid us much attention. You're as dependent on having friends as we are, desperately so given the craving for constant attention the White House demands. Lutnik and his respect-us schtick is particularly hilarious.

Notwithstanding finding other foreign markets of course these aren't going to happen. We'll happily take your money - what moral superiority? LMAO!

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

We watch you like a heron. Used to be you rarely noticed or paid us much attention. You're as dependent on having friends as we are, desperately so given the craving for constant attention the White House demands. Lutnik and his respect-us schtick is particularly hilarious.

 

 

Great Blue Herons....now that we've established that nothing is going to change, and there is absolutely nothing Canada can do about the state of "democracy" in the United States, I suspect the status quo will continue as before.   All is well no matter how much either side complains.

 

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Notwithstanding finding other foreign markets of course these aren't going to happen. We'll happily take your money - what moral superiority? LMAO!

 

Of course...no other viable option really.   Canadian snow birds will still flock to Florida and Arizona, even while cursing Donald Trump.   Love it !

[eyeball]

17 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

nothing is going to change, there is absolutely nothing Canada can do about the state of "democracy" in the United States,

What on Earth ever gave you the idea Canada is trying to change or do something about the state of your democracy?

Being aghast has never influenced America.

24 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canadian snow birds will still flock to Florida and Arizona, even while cursing Donald Trump.   Love it!

Americans who come up here curse Trump too.  Meh.

[CdnFox]

11 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

So when does the Canadian empire start ?

Who knows.  The more pressing question is when does the american one end?

I'm sure you think it never will. England thought that, it's clear from their writings at the time. Same with spain.  Same with the romans. 

Tick. Tick. Tick. 

[bush_cheney2004]

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

What on Earth ever gave you the idea Canada is trying to change or do something about the state of your democracy?

 

Canadians gave me the idea, like "No Kings" marches in Canadian cities:

https://globalnews.ca/news/11484264/trump-protests-global/

 

Then there are the Canadians who illegally vote in U.S. elections, like this example:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ednc/pr/alien-charged-illegal-voting-federal-elections

 

And my favourite, Canadian media polling Canadians on how they would vote in U.S. elections, each election cycle...WTF ?

https://www.thewrit.ca/p/how-canada-would-vote-in-a-us-election

[bush_cheney2004]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Who knows.  The more pressing question is when does the american one end?

I'm sure you think it never will. England thought that, it's clear from their writings at the time. Same with spain.  Same with the romans. 

 

Of course it will end, just not on your premature timeline.   Canada already had its shot as part of the British Empire, where the sun never set.   So Canada already has experienced a failed empire.   

Canada Postage: "WE HOLD A VASTER EMPIRE THAN HAS BEEN" - 2¢

Edited November 3, 2025 by bush_cheney2004

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canadians gave me the idea, like "No Kings" marches in Canadian cities:

Then there are the Canadians who illegally vote in U.S. elections, like this example:

And my favourite, Canadian media polling Canadians on how they would vote in U.S. elections, each election cycle...WTF ?

Its almost like it was 1953 all over again.

[CdnFox]

7 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Of course it will end, just not on your premature timeline. 

I'm sure every great empire thought that was true. "Maybe someday but not now"

Take a look around you. The legal system is falling apart. While the democrats may have started it both sides are now openly disregarding the house and weakening democracy. The weaponizing intelligence services to go after their political opponents. The people are divided. They're turning on their allies and at the same time spending so much money that sooner or later there's going to be a massive economic correction that they can't avoid. It was only 20 years ago the government's really believed in the idea of a balanced budget. Trump rightly criticized the Democrats and Biden for excessive government spending yet he's doing even more

The American moral value system is shot. There have been three major politically based assassination attempts in the last 3 months, one of which was successful. Trump has managed to convince the world that it's not safe to trust America and that it shouldn't be the economic engine of the world. That completely stunts future growth.

For every dollar trump chases into the country two will leave. Canada was set to buy a fleet of fighters which would have made American industry several tens of billions of dollars or more. Now they're in final negotiations with Saab to build new fighters in Canada. But sure, a furniture company that pays kids to knock nails into wood for minimum wage is moving to the states. That's a pretty fair exchange.

Don't look at the world through rose colored glasses. Take your blinders off and take a look at what's happening.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

24 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Take a look around you. The legal system is falling apart. While the democrats may have started it both sides are now openly disregarding the house and weakening democracy. 

The U.S. is not a democracy...it is a constitutional republic, working as designed.

 

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The American moral value system is shot. There have been three major politically based assassination attempts in the last 3 months, one of which was successful. Trump has managed to convince the world that it's not safe to trust America and that it shouldn't be the economic engine of the world. That completely stunts future growth.

 

No big deal...there were major assassinations in 1963 and 1968, yet America did not collapse.  America should not ever be the economic engine of the world, and growth is still far better than in Canada.

 

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For every dollar trump chases into the country two will leave. Canada was set to buy a fleet of fighters which would have made American industry several tens of billions of dollars or more. 

 

Canada couldn't find its own ass with a flashlight when it comes to defence procurements.  It is only a domestic political game while Canadian Forces suffer with rotting kit...has for decades.   Over 1200 F-35 strike fighters have been delivered worldwide to date, and guess which country is a Tier 3 supplier to that program ?

 

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Don't look at the world through rose colored glasses. Take your blinders off and take a look at what's happening.

 

I like what is happening...no glasses required.   America has always been far more dynamic than Canada, which worries so much about what the Americans are doing.

[CdnFox]

26 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

The U.S. is not a democracy...it is a constitutional republic, working as designed.

I didn't say the US was a democracy. But it is a democratic constitutional republic. The democratically elects leaders. And that democracy is falling apart. Your reply is the kind of thing people say when they're trying to deflect from the truth

 

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No big deal...there were major assassinations in 1963 and 1968, yet America did not collapse.  America should not ever be the economic engine of the world, and growth is still far better than in Canada.

It is a big deal. The amount of political violence is radically increased. Political violence can happen at any time but when it starts to go into the upswing it's an indication that the political system is falling apart and people have lost faith in it

 

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Canada couldn't find its own ass with a flashlight when it comes to defence procurements. 

And yet they're deciding to move away from America. They're buying submarines from South Korea, they're looking at artillery and other weapon systems from Europe, and they're looking at buying Swedish fighters. All of that represents hundreds of billions of dollars that will not be going to America, and I know that several other allies are also beginning to look at moving away from buying American and I'm moving back to developing their own systems

 

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I like what is happening...no glasses required.   America has always been far more dynamic than Canada, which worries so much about what the Americans are doing.

You like what is happening because you wear glasses. It's like saying why stop doing drugs, i just took some and I feel great! And no, it's really not working. When it works a good sign that it's working is that even if people don't like what the other side is doing they still respect the process. It is not currently the case in America and any system with democratic representation that loses the respect of the people is doomed

Yeah for now You like it.  but long term it has an impact. 

Sooner or later the democrats are going to get back into power and they're going to look at what trump did and they're going to duplicate that and take it to the next level. They will go after every political rival with the power of the courts that they can, they will completely ignore congress, It will use emergency and military powers in ways that are of questionable legality, you'll simply ignore the courts where they want to, everything they say trump is doing except they'll go even worse.

Yeah, sure. They started it. But that won't make the slightest bit of difference.

I'll say the same thing to you I said to the democrats a year and a half ago. If you do not speak up when your side is doing these things you may well find that when the other side gets in they start doing it to people you actually like and it will be too late to complain

 

[User]

11 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And that democracy is falling apart.

Um. Nope.

We are still have no elections like always down here. 

Democracy isn’t falling apart. 

[bush_cheney2004]

48 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I didn't say the US was a democracy. But it is a democratic constitutional republic. The democratically elects leaders. And that democracy is falling apart. Your reply is the kind of thing people say when they're trying to deflect from the truth

 

That "democracy" is operating just as it has for hundreds of years.   A little bit of American history knowledge goes a long way.

 

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It is a big deal. The amount of political violence is radically increased. Political violence can happen at any time but when it starts to go into the upswing it's an indication that the political system is falling apart and people have lost faith in it

 

Nope...it is an indication of social, political, and economic conflict, just as before.   See "U.S. Civil War".  "Violence" is very, very American...it's how the nation was founded.

 

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And yet they're deciding to move away from America. They're buying submarines from South Korea, they're looking at artillery and other weapon systems from Europe, and they're looking at buying Swedish fighters. All of that represents hundreds of billions of dollars that will not be going to America, and I know that several other allies are also beginning to look at moving away from buying American and I'm moving back to developing their own systems

 

That is a good thing, but I don't expect Canada to follow through at all, and it won't survive the next Canadian political  circus and changing leadership.   Please buy elsewhere, if only to meet the 2% of GDP NATO minimum that Canada signed up for.

P.S. (The U.S. no longer builds diesel electric submarines...hasn't for decades.)  But Canada will still buy many subsystems and tactical weapons from the good 'ole US of A.

Back in the 90's, PM Chretien wanted to buy nuke subs from the U.S., but quickly woke up from his wet dream.

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 It is not currently the case in America and any system with democratic representation that loses the respect of the people is doomed

Yeah for now You like it.  but long term it has an impact. 

 

Don't care either way...no glasses required.  Again, review some U.S. history and get a longer view/perspective.

 

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I'll say the same thing to you I said to the democrats a year and a half ago. If you do not speak up when your side is doing these things you may well find that when the other side gets in they start doing it to people you actually like and it will be too late to complain

 

Not sure what this means, but the worm will turn just as it always has.  Democrats or Republicans will get their turns at holding power...rinse and repeat.   What is telling to me is how much attention all of the American political drama gets in another country...like Canada, which has its own set of "democracy" issues.

Edited November 3, 2025 by bush_cheney2004

[eyeball]

42 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

"Violence" is very, very American...it's how the nation was founded.

It stands to reason it'll probably end that way.

Will it be as glorious?