G.M. to Stop Making Electric Vans in Canada, in Another Hit to a Key Industry

[herbie]

Th cult of PeePee LePew is alive and well. blaming the Liberals for the state of the auto industry. The tree to bark up is on the other side of the border, stupid dogs.

[LinkSoul60]

2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Cars are going electric. That’s the direction of travel. China copped onto this before they had a serious car industry and look set to dominate our collective auto future. 

No need to convince me... that's the direction but it's not happening at the pace NA auto companies or governments thought it would.  With government subsidies cancelled the adoption rate will continue to lag, unless manufacturers pivot to incentivize with lower prices on a typically unprofitable segment of their business right now.  

China is far ahead of NA towards electrifying their economy in areas like EV's and renewable energy and at some point in the not too distant future will surpass the US as the world's most powerful economy.  To your point...there's a very chance that will ripple through our auto future.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

Th cult of PeePee LePew is alive and well. blaming the Liberals for the state of the auto industry. The tree to bark up is on the other side of the border, stupid dogs.

The state is what it is because carney dropped his elbows and can't work a deal. You remember, like he promised during the election. It wasn't that long ago

[eyeball]

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You remember, like he promised during the election. It wasn't that long ago

Cite, with Carney's use of the word promise. Should be easy peasy to come up with. It wasn't that long ago.

[CdnFox]

16 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Cite, with Carney's use of the word promise. Should be easy peasy to come up with. It wasn't that long ago.

Are you claiming at this point that he didn't make a commitment to that effect?

[eyeball]

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Are you claiming at this point that he didn't make a commitment to that effect?

Nope, just that saying it was a promise is a lie.

[CdnFox]

37 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Nope, just that saying it was a promise is a lie.

If he said it was something he's going to do during the campaign then it's called the campaign promise. And he did commit to that. 

But don't take my word for it:

Liberals to protect Canadian auto workers and stand up against tariffs | Liberal Party of Canada

Sometimes it feels like you are somehow betting against yourself on our discussions and then losing intentionally 

Edited October 26, 2025 by CdnFox

[eyeball]

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

But don't take my word for it: 

I doubt that'll ever happen LMAO!

11 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Liberals to protect Canadian auto workers and stand up against tariffs | Liberal Party of Canada 

$10 says you won't find the word promise in here either.

[Legato]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I doubt that'll ever happen LMAO!

$10 says you won't find the word promise in here either.

That what your girlfriend say's?

[cannuck]

6 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Over time the tech will change, we'll get either better energy storage options or we'll find ways of creating electricity on demand like hydrogen fuel cells which actually work and make sense and are a  legit replacement for ice. 

Don't fall for the same kinds of nonsense that launched the EV disaster onto a naive world.  Hydrogen is a nice, clean fuel, and one can actually make green bio- hydrogen.  Problem is: as with so-called "green" electricity green H2 is extremely expensive and can't exist without massive government subsidies.  Then come some more problems: it is extremely difficult to transport and store (will simply leak right through solid metal tanks - and for iron alloys embrittle them to the point of easy rupture).  If you want to use it in a vehicle, the tanks and related hardware are very heavy, expensive and can be dangerous.  One of our associates did a project to determine feasibility of H2 fuel cells in aviation power.  Turns out when you run one at the level of constant power needed in an airplane, the energy it takes to cool the cells is more than the energy it takes to fly the airplane.  And on it goes.

Getting back to the topic of the thread:  The truly ridiculous idea that government money can fund a business is pretty much a 100% recipe for failure.  As with literally EVERY "green" initiative it's all about who gets what kickback or gift to waste.  Business has to be run by businessmen, not financiers.  Products that have a genuine market demand at a profitable price,  Bureaucrats and the backroom boys of politics are only there for and only capable of understanding the scams and skim.  They have no idea and no vested interest in products, markets and customers.  That's why they (the projects) always fail - the fix was in at the start and the finance guys just collect their golden parachute and get on to the next scam.

So: how do EVs fit into the marketplace?  While the environmental damage from making and disposing of their batteries is ecologically a disaster, there is a place for them in the global transportation mix.  IMHO (and this is something I have looked at for clients) they actually make sense for the first mile and last mile P&D business that the GM vans were targeted at.  But: if there isn't a market out there demanding them to meet a real need, their time is not yet here.

Then we get into the orange man's tariffs and Canadian plant closures.  At the end of WWII we had a fairly diverse and nearly self sufficient value added infrastructure.  Over the decades, US (and other foreign) entities snapped up the businesses and built what we used to call the "branch plant" model.  Gradually, this diversity drifted more and more into Ontario, bleeding much of the rest dry.  This was driven by the easy and imbalanced access to the US market - particularly the car market.  Unbalanced because we usually exported a lot more than we imported.  Even though it is being done in a vicious manner there is some legitimacy in what's behind it.  We have had a century to develop other markets and for our business world to develop domestic independence - and we did exactly the opposite.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

I doubt that'll ever happen LMAO!

 

LOL that's true, honest people scare you   

Quote

$10 says you won't find the word promise in here either.

$10 dollars says that his statement qualifies as a promise by any reasonable definition. 

prom·ise

/ˈpräməs/

noun

 

1. a declaration or assurance that one will do a particular thing or that a particular thing will happen.

    

   Carney quote:  "we will protect workers from American tariffs, create higher-paying jobs, and build an all-in-Canada auto manufacturing network.”

    

   Sure looks like a declaration or assurance to me  

   Turns out you don't need to say the word 'promise' to make a promise.  

    

   LOL    You lose yet again kiddo  

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

Don't fall for the same kinds of nonsense that launched the EV disaster onto a naive world.  Hydrogen is a nice, clean fuel, and one can actually make green bio- hydrogen.  Problem is: as with so-called "green" electricity green H2 is extremely expensive and can't exist without massive government subsidies.  Then come some more problems: it is extremely difficult to transport and store (will simply leak right through solid metal tanks - and for iron alloys embrittle them to the point of easy rupture).  If you want to use it in a vehicle, the tanks and related hardware are very heavy, expensive and can be dangerous.  One of our associates did a project to determine feasibility of H2 fuel cells in aviation power.  Turns out when you run one at the level of constant power needed in an airplane, the energy it takes to cool the cells is more than the energy it takes to fly the airplane.  And on it goes.

Getting back to the topic of the thread:  The truly ridiculous idea that government money can fund a business is pretty much a 100% recipe for failure.  As with literally EVERY "green" initiative it's all about who gets what kickback or gift to waste.  Business has to be run by businessmen, not financiers.  Products that have a genuine market demand at a profitable price,  Bureaucrats and the backroom boys of politics are only there for and only capable of understanding the scams and skim.  They have no idea and no vested interest in products, markets and customers.  That's why they (the projects) always fail - the fix was in at the start and the finance guys just collect their golden parachute and get on to the next scam.

So: how do EVs fit into the marketplace?  While the environmental damage from making and disposing of their batteries is ecologically a disaster, there is a place for them in the global transportation mix.  IMHO (and this is something I have looked at for clients) they actually make sense for the first mile and last mile P&D business that the GM vans were targeted at.  But: if there isn't a market out there demanding them to meet a real need, their time is not yet here.

Then we get into the orange man's tariffs and Canadian plant closures.  At the end of WWII we had a fairly diverse and nearly self sufficient value added infrastructure.  Over the decades, US (and other foreign) entities snapped up the businesses and built what we used to call the "branch plant" model.  Gradually, this diversity drifted more and more into Ontario, bleeding much of the rest dry.  This was driven by the easy and imbalanced access to the US market - particularly the car market.  Unbalanced because we usually exported a lot more than we imported.  Even though it is being done in a vicious manner there is some legitimacy in what's behind it.  We have had a century to develop other markets and for our business world to develop domestic independence - and we did exactly the opposite.

Yeah, just to be clear I never thought hydrogen was any kind of solution but I just meant that there might be something that isn't a battery that can produce electrical power like hydrogen even though hydrogen itself isn't a good solution. I don't know what that product would be, it obviously hasn't been invented yet. I'm just saying that battery technology might not be the final solution for electrifying vehicles. 

And sure i agree ev's have a place,  a niche where they work.  And that's great. But the tech isn't there yet for widescale replacement of ice engines

[eyeball]

37 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Carney quote: "we will protect workers from American tariffs, create higher-paying jobs, and build an all-in-Canada auto manufacturing network.”

Yup, here's the media release it came from.

https://liberal.ca/liberals-to-protect-canadian-auto-workers-and-stand-up-against-tariffs/

You won't find the word promise in there either. It's just an announcement on top of a plan.

If it was a promise the release would have concluded

With Mark Carney, we will secure Canada, invest in our workers, and keep Canada strong. We promise.

You're so gullible you'll run to the bank with anything a politician says especially Carney. LMAO!

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Yup, here's the media release it came from.

You mean the place i already quoted above and cited as the source. 

Yes.  Well done. Good job   LOLOL

 

 

 

Quote

You won't find the word promise in there either. It's just an announcement on top of a plan.

Why would you find the word promise?  He MADE a promise, he didn't say he was going to or anything. 
I just posted the definition of promise for you. 

The release contains a very specific promise:  "we will protect workers from American tariffs, create higher-paying jobs, and build an all-in-Canada auto manufacturing network.”

That is a declaration or assurance that one will do a particular thing or that a particular thing will happen. That is a promise. 

So you won't find the word "promise" but you WILL find an actual promise,

And he's broken it.   

One of the things i love about you the most is that no matter how stupid you are and no matter how clearly someone points out how stupid you were, you will always double down on the stupid and find a way to be more stupid 🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😅😅

He made a promise. IT's right there.  And he broke his promise.  Thanks for playing  

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Why would you find the word promise? 

Mostly because of your insistent declaration and assurance.

I notice you see the word lie everywhere you look as well. There's definitely a pattern here.

 

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Mostly because of your insistent declaration and assurance.

Well you do find his there, so you find a promise, Just not the word itself   And i said he promised, so i was right   

Quote

I notice you see the word lie everywhere you look as well. There's definitely a pattern here.

No, only when i'm looking at you.  but i definitely agree there seems to be a pattern in that respect   LOL

[Legato]

8 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Yeah, just to be clear I never thought hydrogen was any kind of solution but I just meant that there might be something that isn't a battery that can produce electrical power like hydrogen even though hydrogen itself isn't a good solution. I don't know what that product would be, it obviously hasn't been invented yet. I'm just saying that battery technology might not be the final solution for electrifying vehicles. 

And sure i agree ev's have a place,  a niche where they work.  And that's great. But the tech isn't there yet for widescale replacement of ice engines

There's a large amount of stuff found in the ground, I think it's called oil. Wonder if that might have any potential to replace the heavily polluting battery production. Maybe we can use it to replace the corrupt green stuff and electrickery that's going on. 

[cannuck]

2 minutes ago, Legato said:

There's a large amount of stuff found in the ground, I think it's called oil. Wonder if that might have any potential to replace the heavily polluting battery production. Maybe we can use it to replace the corrupt green stuff and electrickery that's going on. 

This is true, but a short term solution to some much, much greater problems.

At this juncture, everything we see and do in the energy and resource side is meant to find more expensive and more profitable ways to do more of the things that are rapidly killing our planet.   Add to that: nobody has the brains and balls to realize 7 and heading rapidly to 10Bn people is simply not sustainable due to depletion of resources faster than we learning to less, do without or do genuinely sustainably.

The so-called "green" initiatives just displace the problem and create new ones, not intelligently and honestly deal with reality.  Best example: demonizing carbon emissions.   Absolute poppycock.  The real problem is killing off the phytoplankton that are the main source of absorbing carbon into life forms and releasing oxygen.  What will get us first (and soon) is poisoning the waters of the world.   I'm talking virtually overnight (as in 10 or so years) and we are past that tipping point.  Instead: we are building windmills with power so expensive and unreliable some utilities will not pay anything at all for it.  The blade materials go to waste in a short time and being so extremely difficult to recover resources from end up as toxic landfill.  They exist for the real purpose of this kind of garbage: to give the finance world another artificially create synthetic interest to trade (carbon credits).  We have electric cars no because they solve any problems at all (they actually create a massive environmental problem) but because the Euroweenies don't have any oil and the outcome is to shift personal transportation manufacturing to places we in North American can not compete with.  Has bugger all to do with being "green".  But Joe Consumer can still drive back and fourth all day long with 3 empty seats going nowhere.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Legato said:

There's a large amount of stuff found in the ground, I think it's called oil. Wonder if that might have any potential to replace the heavily polluting battery production. Maybe we can use it to replace the corrupt green stuff and electrickery that's going on. 

I think you might be on to something there.   

(If you leave the greenfreaks and leafeaters in a room by themselves long enough they'll probably come to this exact conclusion and demand we save the planet by halting battery production in favour of "natural organic dinosaur juice". 

[CdnFox]

LOL Every morning @ExFlyer wakes up early and rushes to his computer to downvote any posts i've made in large numbers so that he can prove how much he doesn't care what i think   ROFOMAO! 

[Legato]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

LOL Every morning @ExFlyer wakes up early and rushes to his computer to downvote any posts i've made in large numbers so that he can prove how much he doesn't care what i think   ROFOMAO! 

II wonder if bloodletting is making a comeback.

[Goddess]

17 hours ago, CdnFox said:

LOL that's true, honest people scare you   

$10 dollars says that his statement qualifies as a promise by any reasonable definition. 

prom·ise

/ˈpräməs/

noun

 

1. a declaration or assurance that one will do a particular thing or that a particular thing will happen.

    

   Carney quote:  "we will protect workers from American tariffs, create higher-paying jobs, and build an all-in-Canada auto manufacturing network.”

    

   Sure looks like a declaration or assurance to me  

   Turns out you don't need to say the word 'promise' to make a promise.  

    

   LOL    You lose yet again kiddo  

This bizarrely insane view of eyeball's carries over into all his thinking, on all subjects.

I've never encountered it before.  It's literally insane.

His argument is always thus:

• If a criminal doesn't OUTRIGHT TELL YOU that he is committing a crime, then he hasn't committed a crime.
• If a politician doesn't OUTRIGHT SAY THE WORD "PROMISE" then whatever he tells you he's going to do, is not a promise.
• If a murderer says he didn't do it, NO AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE will convince eyeball that he did, because the murderer didnt' admit it.

For years, his arguments have consisted of:  criminals, liars, thieves, embezzlers - they all tell you IN ADVANCE of what they are doing and if they don't tell you - then they didn't do it!!! 

Eyeball is ALWAYS running cover for corruption and immorality.  Then claims to be against both.

It's literally a circle of insanity.

[Goddess]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

LOL Every morning @ExFlyer wakes up early and rushes to his computer to downvote any posts i've made in large numbers so that he can prove how much he doesn't care what i think   ROFOMAO! 

I'm telling you, it's a 12 year old boy.

In all the years he/she/it has been here, I think I've seen maybe 2 posts of substance that I believe was probably AI or something he heard adults say.

The rest is burp and fart jokes, name-calling and emotional meltdowns.

12.

Year.

Old.

Boy.

[ExFlyer]

18 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I'm telling you, it's a 12 year old boy.

In all the years he/she/it has been here, I think I've seen maybe 2 posts of substance that I believe was probably AI or something he heard adults say.

The rest is burp and fart jokes, name-calling and emotional meltdowns.

12.

Year.

Old.

Boy.

Oh and you are a.....what???

I love it when you get all up and up for confux LOL

He needs you protection and stroking LOL

[eyeball]

25 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Eyeball is ALWAYS running cover for corruption and immorality.  Then claims to be against both.

Trust me, I'm lying.

LMAO!